Tigers sign SP Mike Pelfry and release him 3/30/2017

[Mitchrapp]

My Dad had a saying "If you spent as much time on your homework as you do with those stats you'd be a straight A student."

So true. Stats is as much to baseball as anything else.

 

[Thumb]

Kinsler is the best 2nd baseman in the game or one of the best, Infante is hardly that. The top players make big money.

No.

He's solid. But nobody could call him the best in the game with a straight face. Cano, Altuve, Pedrioa, Utley, Kipnis...

Kinsler had a nice 2015 (@ $16,000,000), but let's not forget that his 2014 was white-hot to start the season, and rip VanWinkle afterwards. (Also a cool $16,000,000)

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=kinslia01&year=2014&t=b#half

He's overpaid, there is really no logical disputing this. He is the second highest paid second baseman in baseball.

 

[gotime909]

I think it can be argued that Kinsler was the best 2nd baseman last year.

 

[nsonnett14]

No.

He's solid. But nobody could call him the best in the game with a straight face. Cano, Altuve, Pedrioa, Utley, Kipnis...

Kinsler had a nice 2015 (@ $16,000,000), but let's not forget that his 2014 was white-hot to start the season, and rip VanWinkle afterwards. (Also a cool $16,000,000)

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=kinslia01&year=2014&t=b#half

He's overpaid, there is really no logical disputing this. He is the second highest paid second baseman in baseball.

Pretty much agree is nowhere near the best , id say 2nd tier behind guys you listed except Utley and on par with Pedroia .

He's def a nice piece of the puzzle and his defense has been better than i thought he was gonna provide .

 

[nsonnett14]

I think it can be argued that Kinsler was the best 2nd baseman last year.

This is true , last year he could be considered one of the best , if not the best .


http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/position/2b/sort/OPS

 

[Thumb]

I think it can be argued that Kinsler was the best 2nd baseman last year.

I don't agree, but I could see the argument to be made. Offensively though he wasn't even top 5.

But overall in terms of salary vs. value there is no way he's not overpaid. Not that I blame him for it, Texas wrote a bad contract, and Ian cashed in.

 

[nsonnett14]

I don't agree, but I could see the argument to be made. Offensively though he wasn't even top 5.

But overall in terms of salary vs. value there is no way he's not overpaid. Not that I blame him for it, Texas wrote a bad contract, and Ian cashed in.

But he had the best WAR by far cmon man !!! I kid i kid with you guys , but not even top 5 ? I thought for sure top 5 offensively , i didnt dig to deep into it tho , just an overall quick glance .

 

[Mitchrapp]

Depends on if best in 2015, or the last 3 or the future, regards to money or not. . Different answers for each.

Advantage Kinsler has had over others is his defense.

 

[Thumb]

But he had the best WAR by far cmon man !!! I kid i kid with you guys , but not even top 5 ? I thought for sure top 5 offensively , i didnt dig to deep into it tho , just an overall quick glance .

Kipnis, Altuve, Forsythe, and Zobrist were significantly better offensively, and Cano marginally.

This is not to imply I didn't think Kinsler did well offensively in 2015, because I think he did, I'm just calling it like it is.

As far as overall second baseman, Kinsler would be closer to the top but it's pretty impossible to argue he was better than Kipnis.

 

[jdeb]

I wish Kinsler was more consistent with the bat.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Mitchrapp]

Kipnis, Altuve, Forsythe, and Zobrist were significantly better offensively, and Cano marginally.

This is not to imply I didn't think Kinsler did well offensively in 2015, because I think he did, I'm just calling it like it is.

As far as overall second baseman, Kinsler would be closer to the top but it's pretty impossible to argue he was better than Kipnis.

The big difference, as far as with Kipnis .. Kinsler plays better defense. By more than a little bit. That closes the gap.

 

[tomdalton22]

The big difference, as far as with Kipnis .. Kinsler plays better defense. By more than a little bit. That closes the gap.

Zobrist too. He is put in the OF a lot of the time. It looks like he is a defensive liability at 2B

 

[Thumb]

The big difference, as far as with Kipnis .. Kinsler plays better defense. By more than a little bit. That closes the gap.

The gap in offensive is huge, the gap in defense is not that big.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...5&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

 

[Rebbiv]

His OPS was 70 points higher at home whereas the average major leaguer is 35 points higher. I'd say that's rather easy. He benefitted from NY having such a short right field porch. In 2012 37 of his home runs were to right field. 26 of his 43 home runs were at home. His OPS was 126 points higher at home.

So we are to determine his value for the Yankees that season solely on away stats? No thanks.

I do agree park factors such as coors field are extreme but in the case of Kinsler/Infante the factors actually swing in Infante's favor for 2015. Infante had a absolutely dreadful 2015 at the plate. The mere fact you'd even continue to argue Kinsler wasn't at least 2 times as valuable as Infante just represents an inability to say "hey....I was wrong" Kinsler has only missed 9 games in 2 seasons. Infante has missed over 6 times as many. Kinsler has been hands down a better and more valuable player and his contract was a better value than Infante.

Not difficult.

You must have missed something. I by no means have made the case that 2014-2015 Infante is near as good as Kinsler.

What I did point out, that between 2011-2013, their stats, including defensive metrics were nearly identical. And during that time-frame, Kinsler benefited from a hitter's park in Arlington. Something you choose to hold against Granderson, but not so against Kinsler. And beyond all of that, was their salary projections going into the 2014.

You still haven't enlightened us into what indicated the decline was coming for Infante.

I am consistent. I use away stats for everyone and I don't just cherry pick when I use them and when I don't.

 

[Mitchrapp]

The gap in offensive is huge, the gap in defense is not that big.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...5&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

I was just going against the argument that it's not impossible to think they're close. End of the day I don't care much.

 

[stonecold2136]

If we wanna talk about overpaid and useless. Jose Reyes, Hanley Ramirez and Kung Fu Panda.

Big names little results.

I am still stoked we got Upton. Really excited, can wait till the season starts

 

[JackCade]

Yeah, that was a homer post, but I'd say Kinsler is top 5.

But I did not say best offense among second basemen. That is an absurd measure. The offense at all costs misses the point of the Royals World Series run.

Defense is underrated in baseball and has been for a little while, as has been base running and other fundamentals (including ones at the plate).

Kinsler was one of the best if not the best (he was in my mind) fielding second basemen in baseball last year, and was really close the year before, and he was among the best at the plate among second basemen. The interesting thing is that he is reaching his peak years (the past three) at 31, 32, 33. He's been very durable (knock on wood), and I think he is a bargain at his price tag and even if you were to add the Prince payout he is at about market value.

[edit] Really it is about balance. A slug it out club risks a shut down pitching staff getting it done, and a shut down staff risks slugging team breaking through. A rotation powerhouse without a good pen, well we all know what that does, a slugging team needs to be able to manufacture runs when the bats go quiet, a staff of aces need an at least solid D behind them for when they have an off day, and a relief staff to at least close out the game, etc.

To me, the best team is the team that is upper pack in a couple of key areas, and middle-upper or middle of the pack in everything else. I don't want the best rotation or best offense in baseball if the pen sucks or the defense or base running is non-existent.
A good, well balanced team, can exploit weaknesses and win.

Finally, an observation, fantasy sports are ruining sports fans.

 

[JackCade]

Fantasy leagues are dorkifying sports. Now I'm a fan of dorkishness, but this is baseball not D&D.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Fantasy leagues are dorkifying sports. Now I'm a fan of dorkishness, but this is baseball not D&D.

Us dorks don't get to pick and choice. A dork is a dork.

 

[JackCade]

Okay fine,

Us dorks don't get to pick and choice. A dork is a dork.

So, what is your THAC0?

Wait, we're off that now, it is all about the buff/debuff skill-monkey.

For me looking at stats too much feels like work, and I'm not really into doing that.