Tigers vs. Royals April 25, 2021 Game 22

[turok]

why did Fulmer only pitch 3 innings? Did he get hurt?

No, Fulmer was starting on short rest of 3 days, so he was curtailed down to 3 IP.

 

[tomdalton22]

I blame Little I more because he won't spend money. He must be waiting until Miggy retires.

I blame the Mr I and the way DD ran the club more than the current owner.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I blame the Mr I and the way DD ran the club more than the current owner.

Long time ago all those acquisition and many drafts ago.. That's like still blaming Millen for the Lions failures the past few seasons.

 

[kalinecountry]

How long should it take an MLB front office to build an average offense?
2 years 14.3%
3 years 60.1%
4 years 20.8%
5 or more years 4.8%
Thanks to everyone who responded to this poll.

All rebuilds are different (budget, contracts, farm system, etc) and below I?ve listed some examples of team offensive production during recent rebuilds.

A rebuild is only as good as the person doing the rebuilding.

Detroit Tigers wRC+ (WAR)
2015 - 103 (17.1)
Al Avila takes over
2016 - 106 (21.1)
2017 - 98 (14.2)
Verlander/Martinez/Upton traded
2018 - 83 (6.2)
2019 - 76 (-3.1)
2020 - 89 (5.2)
2021 - 83 (-0.2)

Toronto Blue Jays wRC+ (WAR)
2015 - 117 (36.7)
Mark Shapiro takes over
2016 - 104 (25.1)
2017 - 93 (10.7)
2018 - 101 (13.2)
2019 - 92 (11.4)
2020 - 105 (5.6)

Seattle Mariners wRC+ (WAR)
2015 - 100 (18.0)
Jerry Dipoto takes over
2016 - 108 (21.3)
2017 - 103 (21.6)
2018 - 100 (18.0)
Cruz/Cano gone
2019 - 98 (16.2)
2020 - 91 (5.1)
2021 - 91 (1.3)

San Francisco Giants wRC+ (WAR)
2018 - 82 (6.2)
Farhan Zaidi takes over
2019 - 82 (9.2)
2020 - 113 (9.3)
2021 - 89 (1.5)

San Diego Padres wRC+ (WAR)
2014 - 82 (11.7)
A.J. Preller takes over
2015 - 90 (16.4)
Upton/Shields/Kimbrel gone
2016 - 84 (11.1)
2017 - 82 (7.0)
2018 - 84 (8.1)
2019 - 88 (13.5)
2020 - 115 (12.7)

Minnesota Twins wRC+ (WAR)
2016 - 95 (12.4)
Thad Levine takes over
2017 - 103 (26.0)
2018 - 96 (16.0)
2019 - 116 (31.0)
2020 - 101 (9.4)

Milwaukee Brewers wRC+ (WAR)
2015 - 87 (12.6)
David Stearns takes over
2016 - 92 (12.7)
2017 - 94 (17.3)
2018 - 100 (27.9)
2019 - 98 (24.7)

Miami Marlins wRC+ (WAR)
2017 - 101 (27.9)
Derek Jeter new CEO
Ozuna/Stanton/Yelich traded
2018 - 83 (10.5)
2019 - 79 (3.2)
2020 - 96 (3.7)
2021 - 92 (2.1)

Houston Astros wRC+ (WAR)
2011 - 88 (13.3)
Jeff Luhnow takes over
2012 - 82 (5.8)
2013 - 85 (1.9)
2014 - 98 (13.7)
2015 - 108 (26.1)

Cincinnati Reds wRC+ (WAR)
2015 - 91 (16.5)
Dick Williams takes over
2016 - 89 (12.1)
2017 - 95 (19.5)
2018 - 94 (16.5)
2019 - 87 (11.0)
2020 - 91 (5.0)
2021 - 118 (4.1)

Casey Mize?s 11 career MLB starts:
- 10 games with multiple walks and/or hit batters
- 7 games with a HR allowed
- 4 games with multiple HR allowed
- 7 games with 3+ ER
- 3 games with 5+ IP
- 3 games with 5+ K

Akil Baddoo ranks second on the Tigers in pitches per plate appearance (4.48) behind only Robbie Grossman (4.59) but Baddoo?s strikeout rate is up over 40% now.

Found Al Avila?s next job. Who has more experience demolishing things in the city of Detroit?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ez25PD6VcAcBB8A?format=jpg&name=medium

 

[biggunsbob]

Mize is a bust so far.. hopefully he turns it around.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Mize is a bust so far.. hopefully he turns it around.

Way too soon to call him a bust. Two fine starts and two not so fine starts.

 

[tomdalton22]

Long time ago all those acquisition and many drafts ago.. That's like still blaming Millen for the Lions failures the past few seasons.

Mr I's obsession of trying to win a championship has run this team into the ground. Mr I died in 2017, and up to that point they were making terrible decisions, mostly based on trying to "win now" and being overly loyal to people he liked. People like Al Avila, Prince Fielder, Miggy, & Victor. Make no mistake, the decisions with the big money signings come from the top (as in almost all organizations).

$248M for Miggy
$214M for Prince
$110M for Zimmerman
$68M for Victor

That's $640M for 4 worthless turds.

Their total WAR for the time they were under contract is 10. 10 wins above replacement. 6.9 of that is from the 2 years that Prince actually played here.

They did manage to salvage something with the Prince signing by trading him for Kinsler, which was a good move.

The result of all of the moves made trying to "win now" are what we see on the field now.

 

[tomdalton22]

I predict that most of you will disagree but I think DD should shop Miggy. He is going to be 33 at the end of this contract and is probably going to demand $30M a year for 6-8 years. Between him, Sanchez, JV and Prince they will probably make about $98M a year at the beginning of the 2016 season. I don't see how they will be able to have a competitive team with that much money going to 4 players. I wouldn't trade him for prospects but for good young players under team control + prospects. I want the Tigers to be good for the next 10 years....not try and win a WS the next 2 then watch a bunch of old farts decline, play sub .500 baseball while we talk about how good Miggy used to be!

If only they would have hired me as a consultant back in 2013

 

[Mitchrapp]

Mr I's obsession of trying to win a championship has run this team into the ground. Mr I died in 2017, and up to that point they were making terrible decisions, mostly based on trying to "win now" and being overly loyal to people he liked. People like Al Avila, Prince Fielder, Miggy, & Victor. Make no mistake, the decisions with the big money signings come from the top (as in almost all organizations).

$248M for Miggy
$214M for Prince
$110M for Zimmerman
$68M for Victor

That's $640M for 4 worthless turds.

Their total WAR for the time they were under contract is 10. 10 wins above replacement. 6.9 of that is from the 2 years that Prince actually played here.

They did manage to salvage something with the Prince signing by trading him for Kinsler, which was a good move.

The result of all of the moves made trying to "win now" are what we see on the field now.

That's way back when what does any of that have to do with Mize or the bad offense and shitty BP year after year? Nothing. I get he spent trying to win a title but we're long past that. Signing Willis has nothing to do with Schoop's production this season. Or the fact Joe Jimenez was still here in '21.

 

[tomdalton22]

That's way back when what does any of that have to do with Mize or the bad offense and shitty BP year after year? Nothing. I get he spent trying to win a title but we're long past that. Signing Willis has nothing to do with Schoop's production this season. Or the fact Joe Jimenez was still here in '21.

are we really past it? Miggy is still on the team, they were paying Prince up until last year, and Zimmerman was still on the team last year. They already spent about $400M on 4 guys that didn't help them win. During that run, they were losing a significant amount of money every single year and depleting the farm system. Those signings are a big part of why they are not spending anything now. They are trying to get the farm system back where it needs to be and trying not to lose money in the process. I will worry about free agent signings a little bit next year and a little more the following off season.

If you really look back on this past off season...who did they really miss out on?

 

[kalinecountry]

The two of you are matching bookends for your hate of Cabrera and Stafford.
Every time I see stuff like this here or on the Lions forum I feel like a rose in a turd garden.

 

[tomdalton22]

The two of you are matching bookends for your hate of Cabrera and Stafford.
Every time I see stuff like this here or on the Lions forum I feel like a rose in a turd garden.

what's to like about Miggy right now?

 

[Rebbiv]

Mr I's obsession of trying to win a championship has run this team into the ground. Mr I died in 2017, and up to that point they were making terrible decisions, mostly based on trying to "win now" and being overly loyal to people he liked. People like Al Avila, Prince Fielder, Miggy, & Victor. Make no mistake, the decisions with the big money signings come from the top (as in almost all organizations).

$248M for Miggy
$214M for Prince
$110M for Zimmerman
$68M for Victor

That's $640M for 4 worthless turds.

Their total WAR for the time they were under contract is 10. 10 wins above replacement. 6.9 of that is from the 2 years that Prince actually played here.

They did manage to salvage something with the Prince signing by trading him for Kinsler, which was a good move.

The result of all of the moves made trying to "win now" are what we see on the field now.

After DD was fired (August 2015), exactly what signing, trade or draft pick has been known to work out in the favor of DET? That is 5+ years with AA at the helm without any noticeable results. If I listed every transaction AA has made, less than 10% would anyone make again. I would have settled for 50-50. He has a huge failure rate.

December 13, 2017: Traded Ian Kinsler to the Los Angeles Angels for Wilkel Hernandez (minors) and Troy Montgomery (minors).

 

[byco42]

That CI extended the contract of AA illustrates to me that CI will stumble on to a WS championship, but will not actively pursue it.

 

[tomdalton22]

After DD was fired (August 2015), exactly what signing, trade or draft pick has been known to work out in the favor of DET? That is 5+ years with AA at the helm without any noticeable results. If I listed every transaction AA has made, less than 10% would anyone make again. I would have settled for 50-50. He has a huge failure rate.

December 13, 2017: Traded Ian Kinsler to the Los Angeles Angels for Wilkel Hernandez (minors) and Troy Montgomery (minors).

I didn't say AA has made good moves. I think he sucks too. But he was hired by Mr I, and like I said, Mr I made terrible decisions based on who he likes/loyalty. AA was one of those guys. All of those free agent signings in 2016 were because Mr I was still trying to chase that title. $271M for Zimmerman, Upton, Pelvre, Lowe, & Mike Aviles.

This mess is still on Mr I. His kid is just trying to clean it up.

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

After DD was fired (August 2015), exactly what signing, trade or draft pick has been known to work out in the favor of DET? That is 5+ years with AA at the helm without any noticeable results. If I listed every transaction AA has made, less than 10% would anyone make again. I would have settled for 50-50. He has a huge failure rate.

December 13, 2017: Traded Ian Kinsler to the Los Angeles Angels for Wilkel Hernandez (minors) and Troy Montgomery (minors).

Al has seemingly drafted ok with the top picks but it's clear he's missed badly from there in the drafts.

Outside of that he's the worst GM in baseball.