Tim Wright

[inkfreq]

Re-signed per Rothstein.

So far, I don't see anywhere we are better than 2015, and in the receiving department, we are worse.

 

[mhughes0021]

Re-signed per Rothstein.

So far, I don't see anywhere we are better than 2015, and in the receiving department, we are worse.

Build thru the draft. FA is where you overpay to fill holes. Somewhere LKP is out there reminding everyone that "we are holeless."

Personally I would have spent money on an OT, DE or starting CB. We didn't spend money on any of those positions. Im on board with you ink.....thank god we have an "easy" schedule cause I don't see much improvement in personel thus far although I have liked the moves he did make.

 

[inkfreq]

Build thru the draft. FA is where you overpay to fill holes. Somewhere LKP is out there reminding everyone that "we are holeless."

Personally I would have spent money on an OT, DE or starting CB. We didn't spend money on any of those positions. Im on board with you ink.....thank god we have an "easy" schedule cause I don't see much improvement in personel thus far although I have liked the moves he did make.

Building through the draft is the best way to become a contender. However, our new GM was heavily handicapped by the last regime.

Calvin Johnson, Ndamukong Suh, Nick Fairley, Gosder Cherilus... all first round picks in the last decade who are gone and who walked away for free.

Riley Reiff, Laken Thomlinson, Eric Ebron.. first round picks still on the roster making zero or questionable contributions at their position.

In the last 10 drafts our only first round pick that is still here and is producing at a 1st round level is Ziggy.

That's a pretty bad place to begin from. Quinn can build through the draft, but the last 10 years haven't left him much to begin that process with.

 

[mhughes0021]

Building through the draft is the best way to become a contender. However, our new GM was heavily handicapped by the last regime.

Calvin Johnson, Ndamukong Suh, Nick Fairley, Gosder Cherilus... all first round picks in the last decade who are gone and who walked away for free.

Riley Reiff, Laken Thomlinson, Eric Ebron.. first round picks still on the roster making zero or questionable contributions at their position.

In the last 10 drafts our only first round pick that is still here and is producing at a 1st round level is Ziggy.

That's a pretty bad place to begin from. Quinn can build through the draft, but the last 10 years haven't left him much to begin that process with.

preaching to the choir bro. #mayhewproblems

 

[tbone413]

Building through the draft is the best way to become a contender. However, our new GM was heavily handicapped by the last regime.

Calvin Johnson, Ndamukong Suh, Nick Fairley, Gosder Cherilus... all first round picks in the last decade who are gone and who walked away for free.

Riley Reiff, Laken Thomlinson, Eric Ebron.. first round picks still on the roster making zero or questionable contributions at their position.

In the last 10 drafts our only first round pick that is still here and is producing at a 1st round level is Ziggy.

That's a pretty bad place to begin from. Quinn can build through the draft, but the last 10 years haven't left him much to begin that process with.

I agree with everything you said - but I will add that Stafford was a 1st rounder in 2009 (obviously lol), and Id say hes performed at a 1st round level. He hasnt been 1st overall pick 'level' (consistently at least), but hes played at a 1st round talent IMO.

 

[inkfreq]

I agree with everything you said - but I will add that Stafford was a 1st rounder in 2009 (obviously lol), and Id say hes performed at a 1st round level. He hasnt been 1st overall pick 'level' (consistently at least), but hes played at a 1st round talent IMO.

That is correct, and I had meant to mention him and then didn't.

I would say he's played not only to 1st round expected levels, but has been one of the best 1st round QBs taken in the last decade.

 

[Mitchrapp]

That is correct, and I had meant to mention him and then didn't.

I would say he's played not only to 1st round expected levels, but has been one of the best 1st round QBs taken in the last decade.

Haha, oh man. That was a good one. Does 2012, '13, and '14 count?

 

[inkfreq]

Haha, oh man. That was a good one. Does 2012, '13, and '14 count?

Yes it does, as does the career of Josh Freeman, Mark Sanchez, Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Sam Bradford, Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden, Tim Tebow, EJ Manuel, Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater, Jameis Winston, and Marcus Mariota.. every 1st round QB taken in that time frame.

Of that entire bunch, only Luck and Newton are CLEARLY better than Stafford. Flacco has won a Superbowl, so you could argue he's had more success, but his ring came on the back of a defense that got very hot at the right time, and overall, he's been equally upa nd down.

Ryan has been a good QB with no real post season success, but I would argue he's been better than Stafford.

I don't think it's fair as yet to judge anyone from the 2014 or 2015 class, but if we did, none of them could be argued to be better than Stafford.

Bradford, Ponder, Bortles, Gabbert, Locker, Quinn, Russell Sanchez, Freeman, Weeden, Tebow, Manuel have ALL been epic busts.

Yes, Stafford has been one of the best 1st round QBs of the last 10 years. It was no joke. It's not even hard to see. For the most part, the 1st round QBs of the last decade have been steaming piles of shit with a few shining examples of a franchise player mixed in.

Not even sure how that could be debated.

 

[tonyballs]

Yes it does, as does the career of Josh Freeman, Mark Sanchez, Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Sam Bradford, Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden, Tim Tebow, EJ Manuel, Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater, Jameis Winston, and Marcus Mariota.. every 1st round QB taken in that time frame.

Of that entire bunch, only Luck and Newton are CLEARLY better than Stafford. Flacco has won a Superbowl, so you could argue he's had more success, but his ring came on the back of a defense that got very hot at the right time, and overall, he's been equally upa nd down.

Ryan has been a good QB with no real post season success, but I would argue he's been better than Stafford.

I don't think it's fair as yet to judge anyone from the 2014 or 2015 class, but if we did, none of them could be argued to be better than Stafford.

Bradford, Ponder, Bortles, Gabbert, Locker, Quinn, Russell Sanchez, Freeman, Weeden, Tebow, Manuel have ALL been epic busts.

Yes, Stafford has been one of the best 1st round QBs of the last 10 years. It was no joke. It's not even hard to see. For the most part, the 1st round QBs of the last decade have been steaming piles of shit with a few shining examples of a franchise player mixed in.

Not even sure how that could be debated.

Of course they'll debate it lol. As for Luck and Newton being a "better QB" than Stafford??? Meh...that's questionable. Luck is a turnover machine but he finds a way to shine. And Newton had a very good rookie year....then he did so so for a couple years in a row. Nothing special up to this year where he played like a demon....very impressive. But his attitude fucking sucks, he's a showboat and a baby.

If i have to go with one guy, its Luck over Stafford. Luck has been victim to an organization that doesn't care about protecting their franchise QB. Imagine that kid with time on his hands? He might throw for 60 TDs one day of they do.

Oh, and i wouldn't call Bortles a bust either....

 

[tonyballs]

Haha, oh man. That was a good one. Does 2012, '13, and '14 count?

Do you need help getting up? You just took a beating from Ink lol.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Do you need help getting up? You just took a beating from Ink lol.

I did?

ARod was just drafted 2005, #24. Close enough to a decade. That's the only guy I thought of.. Everyone else is a distance 2nd.. As far as I'm concerned.

And 1 and 1/2 year doesn't make up for average the rest of the time.

 

[tonyballs]

I did?

ARod was just drafted 2005, #24. Close enough to a decade. That's the only guy I thought of.. Everyone else is a distance 2nd.. As far as I'm concerned.

And 1 and 1/2 year doesn't make up for average the rest of the time.

Ya, you did but of course you're going to act confused about it lol. Ink just gave you a list of QBs drafted in the last decade and Stafford is better than ALL of them.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Ya, you did but of course you're going to act confused about it lol. Ink just gave you a list of QBs drafted in the last decade and Stafford is better than ALL of them.

And he named 2 that he thought was better so apparently he and you disagree. Matt Stafford has not had a good career. 1 and 1/2 good seasons. Facts don't lie.

You're welcome.

 

[cheeno]

Flaccos ring did not come from a defense that got hot at the right time. Flacco was super human in that playoff run and the defense gave up 30 points plus to the Broncos and 9ers.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/2/4/3950478/2013-super-bowl-xlvii-joe-flacco

 

[inkfreq]

And he named 2 that he thought was better so apparently he and you disagree. Matt Stafford has not had a good career. 1 and 1/2 good seasons. Facts don't lie.

You're welcome.

Actually I mentioned four I think are worth arguing there. I give the edge to Luck and Newton and even to Ryan, with Flacco I think is arguable.

 

[mhughes0021]

The tell was the year we had a top 2 defense.....and did squat. All the other years you could reasonably say the defense was why we were so bad as a team. He hasn't figured out how to be successful with a mediocre oline...that's his biggest down fall and the main difference why the mannings, bradys, rodegers of the world succeed. Arod and Brady had 2 of the worst olines in football last year....they can still find a way to be successful.

 

[inkfreq]

The tell was the year we had a top 2 defense.....and did squat. All the other years you could reasonably say the defense was why we were so bad as a team. He hasn't figured out how to be successful with a mediocre oline...that's his biggest down fall and the main difference why the mannings, bradys, rodegers of the world succeed. Arod and Brady had 2 of the worst olines in football last year....they can still find a way to be successful.

Relevant argument amigo.

You're arguing why he hasn't been successful. That has nothing to do with the fact that of all the 1st round QBs taken in the last 10 years, he has been among the more successful of them.

The fastest kid in the Special Olympics may be mentally challenged, but he's still the fastest kid competing there. And the kid that wins the silver is still among the fastest kids there.

This is why I am against ever drafting a 1st round QB. More often than not, they bust, and when you can't say "bust" it's still questionable most of the time. Only the absolute greatest at the position ever justify the pick, and there are always the Brady's and Montana's who were drafted in the 3rd to 6th round, or the Favre's in the 2nd round.

I'm not one of those guys who believes there is a Brady in every 6th round. Thats insane. But of the last 10 years, a few of the 2nd round QBs (Dalton, Carr) have been equally as good if not significantly better than the guys taken ahead of them.

Stafford has absolutely been top 5 among the peers at his position drafted in the 1st round in the last decade. Nothing is going to change that. Any argument against it is just hateraide. But I think the evidence bears itself out time and time again that you really don't want a 1st round QB most of the time, unless he's that special Manning or Elway type guy.

 

[inkfreq]

As for the argument that Aaron Rodger could be included because it was close enough to 10 years ago... okay... we go all the way back to the 2005 NFL draft 12 years ago.

That would add in Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell, Vince Young, Jay Cutler, and Matt Leinart.

Rodgers has been a god. No arguing that. He's been the best QB in the league for the last several years and is better than anyone else mentioned in this debate.

Cutler has good years and bad, but on the whole, I would take Stafford over Cutler. I'm sure some will debate that, which is fine.

So we have 1 QB better than Stafford, 1 arguable in the same mold as Flacco, and 4 that have been in every possible way worse than Stafford.

Skews the numbers even further in Stafford's direction, not away from it.

 

[mhughes0021]

As for the argument that Aaron Rodger could be included because it was close enough to 10 years ago... okay... we go all the way back to the 2005 NFL draft 12 years ago.

That would add in Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell, Vince Young, Jay Cutler, and Matt Leinart.

Rodgers has been a god. No arguing that. He's been the best QB in the league for the last several years and is better than anyone else mentioned in this debate.

Cutler has good years and bad, but on the whole, I would take Stafford over Cutler. I'm sure some will debate that, which is fine.

So we have 1 QB better than Stafford, 1 arguable in the same mold as Flacco, and 4 that have been in every possible way worse than Stafford.

Skews the numbers even further in Stafford's direction, not away from it.

Wasn't Cam just in the super bowl and league MVP? DId I miss that argument somewhere. And don't say that's all defense. They put up huge numbers on offense and he had a large pile of shit at WR.

But in principle I agree...Stafford has been one of the better 1st rd qbs taken the last 10 years. But as you pointed out...that's like being rewarded for 20th place.

Cam, luck, flacco, Rodgers.....so I think its fair to say hes top 5 the last 10 years.

 

[tomdalton22]

Wasn't Cam just in the super bowl and league MVP? DId I miss that argument somewhere. And don't say that's all defense. They put up huge numbers on offense and he had a large pile of shit at WR.

But in principle I agree...Stafford has been one of the better 1st rd qbs taken the last 10 years. But as you pointed out...that's like being rewarded for 20th place.

Cam, luck, flacco, Rodgers.....so I think its fair to say hes top 5 the last 10 years.

among first rounders...top 5 is fair.