tOFFICIAL M v MSU For the B1G SpartyBoard Mens Hoops Tournament Title Thread

[Spartanmack]

Not understanding your point. M and MSU both played three games in three days.

Did you watch the second half? michigan had no life, couldn't get anyone open, couldn't make shots when they did. Some of the credit goes to MSU's defense but that game is not representative of what would happen if that game was played in the first round and not the final.

 

[jwlcosu]

Did you watch the second half? michigan had no life, couldn't get anyone open, couldn't make shots when they did. Some of the credit goes to MSU's defense but that game is not representative of what would happen if that game was played in the first round and not the final.

I saw a physically dominant MSU squad shut M down by taking the three point line away from them. Spartans were defending beyond the line. It never occurred to me that it happened because the Michigan lads were tired. It looked like the game plan.

 

[Spartanmack]

It was the game plan but it was clearly aided by Michigan not having the legs to overcome it. When healthy I think we're the better team but I wouldn't expect that result against a fresh squad. Our guys were tired too, the whole second half sucked at both ends but fatigue definitely made them easier to defend.

 

[Sbee]

 

[Sbee]

 

[lucke]

It was the game plan but it was clearly aided by Michigan not having the legs to overcome it. When healthy I think we're the better team but I wouldn't expect that result against a fresh squad. Our guys were tired too, the whole second half sucked at both ends but fatigue definitely made them easier to defend.

Sorry, but your logic still doesn't make sense. They both played 3 games in 3 days, and UM actually had a few hours more to rest up since they played earlier on Sat. Plain and simple fact is that State flat out outplayed UM.

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[Spartanmack]

Sorry, but your logic still doesn't make sense. They both played 3 games in 3 days, and UM actually had a few hours more to rest up since they played earlier on Sat. Plain and simple fact is that State flat out outplayed UM.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Sorry but my logic doesn't rely on one team playing a couple hours more recently than the other so your little revelation of the painfully obvious doesn't come close to invalidating my point. You see not all teams are equally conditioned and both teams being fatigued isn't a wash. A tired team that can't get the ball to the rim from range or off the dribble is easier to defend even for another team that is also tired. Also, if folks are going to argue that injuries cost us some wins, the flip side of that is some players are more rested. Finally, did you watch the game? Michigan was clearly worn down. I'm not saying we lose if that was game was played in the first round but it's probably a much tougher win.

 

[RedeemerKid]

Sorry but my logic doesn't rely on one team playing a couple hours more recently than the other so your little revelation that doesn't come close to invalidating my point. You see not all teams are equally conditioned and both teams being fatigued isn't a wash. A tired team that can't get the ball to the rim from range or off the dribble is easier to defend even for another team that is also tired. Also, if folks are going to argue that injuries cost us some wins, the flip side of that is some players are more rested. Finally, did you watch the game? Michigan was clearly worn down. I'm not saying we lose if that was game was played in the first round but it's probably a much tougher win.

Count me among the ignorant ones not understanding your point.

Looked like the MSU team on the floor yesterday was simply the better team by virtue of the matchups. Looked like they were the better conditioned team as well.

If this had been a first round game and not the the third game in three days, it seems the MSU team on the floor yesterday would have still been the better team by virtue of the matchups, and the better conditioned team.

I'll agree some teams' strengths deteriorate at a faster rate than others when fatigue sets in. But if both teams were fresher, UM was still not going to penetrate against MSU with Dawson and Payne on the floor. Jordan Morgan was still not going to get more than a handful of baskets matching up against MSU's front court.

Yesterday was the first time I've seen UofM play this year where they really looked like they missed Mitch McGary to the extent that he could have changed the flow of the game.

 

[Sbee]

Count me among the ignorant ones not understanding your point.

Looked like the MSU team on the floor yesterday was simply the better team by virtue of the matchups. Looked like they were the better conditioned team as well.

If this had been a first round game and not the the third game in three days, it seems the MSU team on the floor yesterday would have still been the better team by virtue of the matchups, and the better conditioned team.

I'll agree some teams' strengths deteriorate at a faster rate than others when fatigue sets in. But if both teams were fresher, UM was still not going to penetrate against MSU with Dawson and Payne on the floor. Jordan Morgan was still not going to get more than a handful of baskets matching up against MSU's front court.

Yesterday was the first time I've seen UofM play this year where they really looked like they missed Mitch McGary to the extent that he could have changed the flow of the game.

when you play 3 games in 3 days, you simply don't have the legs on day 3 that you did on day 1. the first thing that goes is the jump shot, MSU and Michigan both shot poorly, we shoot a higher % from 3 than they do and we shot about 15%, we did shoot 50% from the floor even with the bad outside shooting.

the difference is that we can score other ways, we got so many easy looks at the basket. even with Morgan in there Michigan was tissue paper soft on the interior.

 

[Spartanmack]

For someone who doesn't understand my point, you do a pretty good job of summarizing and agreeing with me. It's like you guys think I'm saying we lose that game against a fresh michigan team - that's not even close to the point and I've clearly stated my belief that MSU is the better team. But anyone that thinks the result of 2 fatigued teams is the same result you get when they are both fresh is nuts and I think the fatigue factor worked heavily in our favor playing with a lead in the 2nd half. I would expect MSU to win as many as 7 of 10 with both squads fresh but I wouldn't expect many if any to be double digit leads the whole way. There was no way michigan was coming back last night. Give them fresh legs, good chance they make a better game of it.

If you watched that game it got progressively worse from about the 12 minute mark in the first half. At that point, they were on pace for a high 70s halftime total but the half finished at 67 and got worse with just 57 points scored in the second half. Lots of folks out here saying they don't want us to get into a half-court battle, they prefer to open it up. The last 30 minutes were mostly played in half court, but against a team that couldn't do crap - partly due to matchups but also largely due to the fact that they didn't have the energy to execute.

 

[MSUMatt28]

I'm sure Michigan was somewhat tired. It was their third game in 3 days and they aren't very deep. MSU was tired too, otherwise maybe they shoot better than 2 for 17 on 3's. But that's what MSU has done over the years when they're at their best though, when they're really guarding. They make you use all of the shot clock looking for any kind of shot and you expend so much energy to get a shot that you can't make them consistently once you do. We haven't seen that kind of defense from them often enough this year.

UM's body language in the second half also might have had as much do to with the fact that they were down 15 points and the fact that they were taken to the limit in both their previous games.

Also, Stauskas I think realized early on he was going to have to carry things and he forced a lot of questionable shots. Shots that he can make sometimes, and shots that went in in Ann Arbor.

 

[Sbee]

For someone who doesn't understand my point, you do a pretty good job of summarizing and agreeing with me. It's like you guys think I'm saying we lose that game against a fresh michigan team - that's not even close to the point and I've clearly stated my belief that MSU is the better team. But anyone that thinks the result of 2 fatigued teams is the same result you get when they are both fresh is nuts and I think the fatigue factor worked heavily in our favor playing with a lead in the 2nd half. I would expect MSU to win as many as 7 of 10 with both squads fresh but I wouldn't expect many if any to be double digit leads the whole way. There was no way michigan was coming back last night. Give them fresh legs, good chance they make a better game of it.

If you watched that game it got progressively worse from about the 12 minute mark in the first half. At that point, they were on pace for a high 70s halftime total but the half finished at 67 and got worse with just 57 points scored in the second half. Lots of folks out here saying they don't want us to get into a half-court battle, they prefer to open it up. The last 30 minutes were mostly played in half court, but against a team that couldn't do crap - partly due to matchups but also largely due to the fact that they didn't have the energy to execute.

well it was their lack of other options on offense, when the bread and butter wasn't working they couldn't get anything inside against us. that's always been their weakness, interior scoring and rebounding, we dominate those two areas.

when plan A wasn't working, they had no plan B

 

[johnny2x2x]

The thing about having an inside game is that no matter how tired you get, you can still dump it into the post and get good shots.

Yesterday's game was a beatdown and if we go 6-17 instead of 2-17 from 3 we blow them out by 26. It was a physically superior and more skilled team that won yesterday. Dawson is a difference maker and he was the best athlete on the court yesterday. The height he gets on some of his rebounds is incredible. Dawson was a mismatch against Robinson on both ends of the court and even in transition.

 

[RedeemerKid]

I think the fatigue factor worked heavily in our favor playing with a lead in the 2nd half.

This is where I think we disagree. I think if both teams were fresher, UM was still not going to penetrate against MSU with Dawson and Payne on the floor. Jordan Morgan was still not going to get more than a handful of baskets matching up against MSU's front court.

Both teams would have probably shot from the outside better with fresher legs. I think that's at best a wash, perhaps an advantage for MSU looking at the season team shooting from three point range. MSU would have had the advantage in even more areas than they already did.

 

[Spartanmack]

Jordan Morgan should never get even a handful of baskets in any situation - he is at best the 4th option and shouldn't even factor into a conversation about MSU vs. michigan. GR3 has a tendency to disappear but with fresh legs, it's him, LeVert and even Stauskas that are a threat to attack the rim and even GR3 has shown decent range while and Stauskas and LeVert can shoot the lights out. No doubt, we match up better against those three with Dawson, Harris and Valentine in the lineup and we win more games than we lose with those rosters but michigan couldn't even take advantage of Bird yesterday. Saying we definitely dominate like that with both teams fresh is a bit homerish.

 

[RedeemerKid]

Jordan Morgan should never get even a handful of baskets in any situation - he is at best the 4th option and shouldn't even factor into a conversation about MSU vs. michigan. GR3 has a tendency to disappear but with fresh legs, it's him, LeVert and even Stauskas that are a threat to attack the rim and even GR3 has shown decent range while and Stauskas and LeVert can shoot the lights out. No doubt, we match up better against those three with Dawson, Harris and Valentine in the lineup and we win more games than we lose with those rosters but michigan couldn't even take advantage of Bird yesterday. Saying we definitely dominate like that with both teams fresh is a bit homerish.

Well, compared to the persistent "glass is half empty" type of negativity displayed and embraced by some, nearly any other analysis would indeed sound comparatively homerish.

 

[johnny2x2x]

GTFO of here with that they were tired BS. UM ran into a physcially better basketball team and all they could do was chuck up prayers from the outside all game long. MSU missed more open shots than Michigan did and 2-17 fromo 3 is horrible.

I would play Michigan every day of the week and twice on Sundays. We brought it yesterday and it was highlight play after highlight play. Seriously a dominant team performance and it looked like men vs boys at times.

 

[Spartanmack]

Well, compared to the persistent "glass is half full" type of negativity displayed and embraced by some, nearly any other analysis would indeed sound comparatively homerish.

First of all, if the glass is half full, then you're the optimist and second, what have I said that's negative? Saying we win but not as easily if both teams are fresh is hardly negative. Saying the result in a game between 2 fatigued teams is the same result you get when both are fresh shows a lack of understanding of athletics in general.

 

[Spartanmack]

GTFO of here with that they were tired BS. UM ran into a physcially better basketball team and all they could do was chuck up prayers from the outside all game long. MSU missed more open shots than Michigan did and 2-17 fromo 3 is horrible.

I would play Michigan every day of the week and twice on Sundays. We brought it yesterday and it was highlight play after highlight play. Seriously a dominant team performance and it looked like men vs boys at times.

This reminds me of all the stupid nonsense you used to say about how awesome Johnny Adams was. I've already said MSU probably wins 7 out of 10 with those lineups but like I said above "Saying the result in a game between 2 fatigued teams is the same result you get when both are fresh shows a lack of understanding of athletics in general." At least you're consistent.

 

[RedeemerKid]

First of all, if the glass is half full, then you're the optimist..

Apologies. Correction noted and made. It has however been my observation that you are the chronic shleprock of this board when it comes to anything MSU. Glass is always half empty is what I read from your take on many things.

Saying we win but not as easily if both teams are fresh is hardly negative.

Suggesting even in the slightest that MSU was fortunate to have played UofM in the third game and not the first is simply an example of looking for the downside in an otherwise exceptional MSU performance.

Saying the result in a game between 2 fatigued teams is the same result you get when both are fresh shows a lack of understanding of athletics in general.

Nope. Not the same result. I even agreed earlier that some teams' strengths deteriorate at a faster rate than others when fatigue sets in. But I believe if both teams were fresh, MSU would have likely won by more. Take what the two teams had in their arsenal yesterday, and give both teams closer to their usual outside shooting productivity, and the matchup favors MSU even more.