Trade Deadline Priorities

[Mitchrapp]

How many of those 9 AS games did Cal actually deserve?

Randy Johnson bubba. Why do you guys overlook the earlier posts about RJ? Lol. What's the excuse on this one?

 

[tomdalton22]

Randy Johnson bubba. Why do you guys overlook the earlier posts about RJ? Lol. What's the excuse on this one?

I guess the main point is most players have a pretty sharp drop off after the age of 32-33. Miggy and JV will probably command $25+ mil a year by then. I would have to say that most of us on this board thought that the Pujols signing was stupid.....do we really want the Tigers to do that kind of signing for 2 players when Miggy and JV are ready for their next contracts? You know if they continue what they have been doing there will be those kinds of offers for them.

 

[buddyboy2121]

I guess the main point is most players have a pretty sharp drop off after the age of 32-33. Miggy and JV will probably command $25+ mil a year by then. I would have to say that most of us on this board thought that the Pujols signing was stupid.....do we really want the Tigers to do that kind of signing for 2 players when Miggy and JV are ready for their next contracts? You know if they continue what they have been doing there will be those kinds of offers for them.

This guy gets it. There are very very few players that are still in their prime in the 32/33 age range.

 

[Mitchrapp]

This guy gets it. There are very very few players that are still in their prime in the 32/33 age range.

No he doesn't. Some guys, great ones do well. And JV and MC are great. Lots and lots and lots. So do they have to win mvp's? Stars can play well into their 30's and do well.

Who cares if they're worth 25m? Who is worth that much. When you have a DY making 6.5, a lesser JV is certainly worth 20.

 

[tomdalton22]

No he doesn't. Some guys, great ones do well. And JV and MC are great. Lots and lots and lots. So do they have to win mvp's? Stars can play well into their 30's and do well.

Who cares if they're worth 25m? Who is worth that much. When you have a DY making 6.5, a lesser JV is certainly worth 20.

So you think that the Pujols signing was a great deal for the Angels?

 

[Mitchrapp]

So you think that the Pujols signing was a great deal for the Angels?

What does this have to with Pujols? And where did I say every great ball player will be great as they get older?

But you numb nuts wanted a name and I gave you one, Randy Johnson. I could give you more but whats the point.

 

[tomdalton22]

What does this have to with Pujols? And where did I say every great ball player will be great as they get older?

But you numb nuts wanted a name and I gave you one, Randy Johnson. I could give you more but whats the point.

I was referring to my earlier point about the contracts that it would take to sign JV and Miggy If they continue their current rate of success, they will get offers from other teams that will likely be higher than that given to Albert. I think most of us think that was a stupid signing given his age. If the Tigers re-sign both JV and Miggy they will likely have to sign both players to similar contracts. Could they both be great until the ages of 40-41....slightly possible but very unlikely. Of the guys you initially named all were suspected or proven to be on PEDs.....who knows...maybe Randy Johnsoh was on them too.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I was referring to my earlier point about the contracts that it would take to sign JV and Miggy If they continue their current rate of success, they will get offers from other teams that will likely be higher than that given to Albert. I think most of us think that was a stupid signing given his age. If the Tigers re-sign both JV and Miggy they will likely have to sign both players to similar contracts. Could they both be great until the ages of 40-41....slightly possible but very unlikely. Of the guys you initially named all were suspected or proven to be on PEDs.....who knows...maybe Randy Johnsoh was on them too.

I assume if they lost talent they wouldn't be worth the same. Who would give them 20m for a vet who isn't as good?

But there are no guarantee once you're 32-33 you're a lesser of a player. Not 100% of the time. Which is what you were trying to say from the get go.

 

[tomdalton22]

I assume if they lost talent they wouldn't be worth the same. Who would give them 20m for a vet who isn't as good?

But there are no guarantee once you're 32-33 you're a lesser of a player. Not 100% of the time. Which is what you were trying to say from the get go.

That is not what I was saying. I was saying that signing them at that age to a huge contract is not a good idea. They will probably still be at or near their peak at 32 so they will still get the huge / long term contract from someone. After the age of 32-33 is when most players decline...most of them at a fast rate. Signing a player to a Pujols type contract at the age of 32-33 is stupid.....signing two is beyond stupid.

 

[Mitchrapp]

That is not what I was saying. I was saying that signing them at that age to a huge contract is not a good idea. They will probably still be at or near their peak at 32 so they will still get the huge / long term contract from someone. After the age of 32-33 is when most players decline...most of them at a fast rate. Signing a player to a Pujols type contract at the age of 32-33 is stupid.....signing two is beyond stupid.

And you can read the minds of the Tigers brass that they get 10 year deals of 200 plus? At age 32-33?

 

[tomdalton22]

And you can read the minds of the Tigers brass that they get 10 year deals of 200 plus? At age 32-33?

We just saw what Pujols got....there will almost always be a team that will do that kind of deal. If the Tigers don't someone else will. If the Tigers want to keep those guys the smart thing to do would be try and extend them now. Give them another 3-4 years on their deal to lock them in until they are 34-35. The players are not likely to want to do that though knowing that at the age of 31-32 there will be a huge long term deal out there for them.

 

[Mitchrapp]

We just saw what Pujols got....there will almost always be a team that will do that kind of deal. If the Tigers don't someone else will. If the Tigers want to keep those guys the smart thing to do would be try and extend them now. Give them another 3-4 years on their deal to lock them in until they are 34-35. The players are not likely to want to do that though knowing that at the age of 31-32 there will be a huge long term deal out there for them.

That's different, FA always get the most. JV and Miggy are current Tigers.

 

[tomdalton22]

That's different, FA always get the most. JV and Miggy are current Tigers.

We are talking about them when they become free agents. If they are offered a 10 year $250 million contract from the Yankees, Angels or some other team the Tigers are going to have to match or come VERY close to that to keep them.

 

[Thumb]

Clemens and Bonds were both on steroids/HGH and All Star teams don't mean jack shit.

All-star teams don't mean jack shit?

You're fucking high buddy, you're trying to hold on to your argument, but that's just stupid.

You asked for one example and we gave you several, and now you;re going to nit-pick them to try to cover your ass, well you've failed.

This is almost like the Peralta-pulled-Prince argument we had, I bet you still insist his foot was off the bag though EVERYONE agrees it was on, even photographic proof you kept shooting down.

Reminds me of the Family Guy episode with the Donkey who won;t concede and argument.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqs9DYisSsg

 

[tomdalton22]

All-star teams don't mean jack shit?

You're fucking high buddy, you're trying to hold on to your argument, but that's just stupid.

You asked for one example and we gave you several, and now you;re going to nit-pick them to try to cover your ass, well you've failed.

This is almost like the Peralta-pulled-Prince argument we had, I bet you still insist his foot was off the bag though EVERYONE agrees it was on, even photographic proof you kept shooting down.

Reminds me of the Family Guy episode with the Donkey who won;t concede and argument.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqs9DYisSsg

In his defense the AS argument was about Cal Ripkin and he is right.....in his case the AS appearances didn't mean shit. Look at his numbers after the age of 31. He made 10 AS games from the age 31 to 40. During those years some of his batting averages were: .239, .251, .257, .256, .262. Only 2x did he have a batting average over .300 in those 10 years. He averaged 17 HR a year and 75 RBI over that time frame. In his first 10 years he averaged 26 HR a year. In 7 of the 10 years his OPS was below his career average. He didn't lead the league in any offensive category in that 10 year period other than games played a few years and AB one year. He did hit into the most DP one year but that is not a good stat! Cal made the AS game over that time period 10x. He probably only deserved it 2 or 3 times. So he was right....AS games don't mean shit when it comes to Cal Ripkin.

 

[Thumb]

He didn't say Cal Ripken, he said "All-Star games don't mean jack shit".

Also:

1994, .823 OPS
1996, .807 OPS
1999, .952 OPS
2000, .763 OPS

that's 4 excellent offensive seasons for a SS.

You should really get away from using BA. as a stat to determine value.

Here is WAR, from 1994 (age 34) to 2000 (age 39!) Ripkens WAR was positive (17.7 total in 10 years), meaning he was better than an average SS.

 

[tomdalton22]

This is what he was responding to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MI_Thumb
Arod won MVP in 2009 at age 34.

Roger Clemens won 4 Cy Youngs after the age of 35

Randy Johnson won 4 Cy Youngs after the age of 32

Barry Bonds won 4 MVP's after age 36.

Cal Ripken made 9 All-Star teams after the age of 33.

Paul Konerko's best two seasons came at age 35, 36.

I can provide a shitload more examples if you like, but it's pretty obvious what the outcome of this discussion is.

Clemens and Bonds were both on steroids/HGH and All Star teams don't mean jack shit.

it is clear that he was referring to Ripkin's AS games. You fail to mention the other 6 years where his OPS was under 750 with 2 years in the 600's. He may have deserved those 4 AS games but he made it 10x from 31-40. You can't consider AS games when determining if a player is great....they were popularity contests.

 

[byco42]

The only thing I want to trade is the first half's underachieving performance for one that this team is capable of in the second half.

 

[Thumb]

This is what he was responding to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MI_Thumb
Arod won MVP in 2009 at age 34.

Roger Clemens won 4 Cy Youngs after the age of 35

Randy Johnson won 4 Cy Youngs after the age of 32

Barry Bonds won 4 MVP's after age 36.

Cal Ripken made 9 All-Star teams after the age of 33.

Paul Konerko's best two seasons came at age 35, 36.

I can provide a shitload more examples if you like, but it's pretty obvious what the outcome of this discussion is.

Clemens and Bonds were both on steroids/HGH and All Star teams don't mean jack shit.

it is clear that he was referring to Ripkin's AS games. You fail to mention the other 6 years where his OPS was under 750 with 2 years in the 600's. He may have deserved those 4 AS games but he made it 10x from 31-40. You can't consider AS games when determining if a player is great....they were popularity contests.

Internet voting did not happen until the mid-2000's. They were popularity contests, but nothing like it is now.

And why don't you let him tell us exactly what he meant?

 

[tomdalton22]

Internet voting did not happen until the mid-2000's. They were popularity contests, but nothing like it is now.

And why don't you let him tell us exactly what he meant?

It was all fan voting back then so it was the same as it is now but less votes. I remember one time a player that didn't even play in the first half had the most votes for his position without playing in a single game (I think it was a Baltimore player but I can't remember his name).

As far as what he meant...I can read....it was obvious what he meant. There was only one player on your list that mentioned AS games as proof that a player was good after they were older and that was Cal.