Upton to Tigers 6 years, and tried to trade him during 2016 season

[JackCade]

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What does JV have to do with anything mentioned in this thread?

I was replying to post #44, if I remember correctly.

 

[sggatecl]

lol you are always so worried about whats gonna happen in 4 to 5 years from now . How about live in the present and be grateful for our owner and worry about the future when we get to it . Otherwise all you are gonna do is complain about what we are doing now and always be worrying about whats gonna happen down the road .

If an 80 win season gets you off, by all means celebrate.

I can't speak for Rebbiv but I've been ready for the rebuild for 2 seasons now. This isn't a team that's one or two players away from a World Series, I figured after last season especially people would agree with that.

I feel like they're plugging the holes in the bottom of the boat with toilet paper and praying they get to their destination before the boat sinks completely. Whether they're in the middle of the lake or approaching the shore depends on who you ask I suppose.

I truly hope they prove me wrong and catch lightning in a bottle but in my eyes they're just extending how long the next rebuild will last with each of these moves.

 

[mhughes0021]

We always go get the guys I say to get....just like 4 years later.

 

[johnny2x2x]

so why haven't the rest of the Tigers hitters picked up on what Miggy & V-mart are doing?

Sure worked wonders with JD who credits Miggy with his new swing.

 

[jdeb]

It's gonna suck if we don't win it all with this group. I think this is it. I will say this, I didn't understand the Aviles, and Maybin acquisitions. If they put Upton in from of Miggy, he is gonna rake.

We are kinda built like Toronto.

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[sggatecl]

We are kinda built like Toronto.

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And it only cost us 60 million more :tup:

 

[Rebbiv]

lol you are always so worried about whats gonna happen in 4 to 5 years from now . How about live in the present and be grateful for our owner and worry about the future when we get to it . Otherwise all you are gonna do is complain about what we are doing now and always be worrying about whats gonna happen down the road .

Funny how you just joined and think you already know me. Another userID for you is it?

 

[kalinecountry]

Hmmm.

 

[Rebbiv]

All good if thats how you feel , i on the other hand think this team can most def compete for a world series . I would like to think all our injuries to major guys played a big part in last years failure , plus we traded away Price and Cespedes at the deadline . I really dont see many holes in this team at all . We have power , speed , defense and a mix of youth and veterans . And we didnt get rid of any of our prized prospects .

From May 16th to the end of the year, DET was the worst team in the AL hands down (by 4 games) and was one of the worst offensive teams. That included when Price and Cespedes was here.


2015 Opening Day vs 2016 Projected Opening Day

Y. Cespedes > J. Upton

R. Davis > C. Maybin

A. Avila > J. Saltamacchia

H. Perez > M. Aviles


D. Price > J. Zimmermann

A. Simon > M. Pelfrey


On paper, the 2016 bull pen should be better than the 2015 bull pen. However, that does not necessarily equate to a significant more wins.

Bullpen aside, we have not improved in any one area over the beginning of last year. Health you say....well all teams will deal with health at some point or another. That is when organizational depth comes into play. Who do we have offensively today that we didn't have at the beginning of 2015 that provides that? We got Norris, Boyd, and Fulmer that are suppose to provide starter depth. We don't know if any one of them will be starter long term and if they are, how effective they will be.

This team only projects now to 82 wins by Fangraphs (after Upton). And quite frankly, I cannot agree more. If Upton signed with another team and it now projected them to win 90 games, I would have a different take on it.

There is virtually nothing against Upton. I don't think he is this team's savior. I can show where he isn't even a top 10 LFer. Saying he will have better numbers by being on a team with Cabrera and Victor is purely speculation and is not grounded on any factual data. In fact, data will suggest there is no "protection" when hitting in a lineup.

 

[Thumb]

So lets see , we basically got rid of Price and Cespedes for Zimmerman and Upton , AND added a bunch of very good pitching prospects ......also we greatly improved our bullpen , our bench and still have above average starting pitching . Not to mention guys are all healthy coming into this year .

So , tell me how we aren't better again , and we got younger and kept all our prized prospects ....I dont know how anyone could complain about this offseason .

Price is much better then Zimmerman.

Cespedes is much better then Upton.

How exactly did we improve our bench?

Our bullpen had nowhere to go but up.

So tell me exactly how we're better than opening day 2015? We also did not keep all of our prospects as you claim.

We might have gotten a little younger, but we also just went over the luxury tax threshold to do it.

So yeah, I have some issues with some of the moves made, at least I'm posting under my real screen name.

 

[jdeb]

From May 16th to the end of the year, DET was the worst team in the AL hands down (by 4 games) and was one of the worst offensive teams. That included when Price and Cespedes was here.


2015 Opening Day vs 2016 Projected Opening Day

Y. Cespedes > J. Upton

R. Davis > C. Maybin

A. Avila > J. Saltamacchia

H. Perez > M. Aviles


D. Price > J. Zimmermann

A. Simon > M. Pelfrey


On paper, the 2016 bull pen should be better than the 2015 bull pen. However, that does not necessarily equate to a significant more wins.

Bullpen aside, we have not improved in any one area over the beginning of last year. Health you say....well all teams will deal with health at some point or another. That is when organizational depth comes into play. Who do we have offensively today that we didn't have at the beginning of 2015 that provides that? We got Norris, Boyd, and Fulmer that are suppose to provide starter depth. We don't know if any one of them will be starter long term and if they are, how effective they will be.

This team only projects now to 82 wins by Fangraphs (after Upton). And quite frankly, I cannot agree more. If Upton signed with another team and it now projected them to win 90 games, I would have a different take on it.

There is virtually nothing against Upton. I don't think he is this team's savior. I can show where he isn't even a top 10 LFer. Saying he will have better numbers by being on a team with Cabrera and Victor is purely speculation and is not grounded on any factual data. In fact, data will suggest there is no "protection" when hitting in a lineup.

Well it's nice to dream a little. GO TIGERS!

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[tomdalton22]

Sure worked wonders with JD who credits Miggy with his new swing.

so one guy on the team was able to learn from Miggy...it doesn't mean anyone else will be able to. Don't get me wrong...I hope Upton turns into JD 2.0 because "Miggy teaches" him. I'm just not going to hold my breath.

 

[Rebbiv]

Sure worked wonders with JD who credits Miggy with his new swing.

folly

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/j-d-martinez-on-his-many-adjustments/

or was it Jason Castro?

Ryan Braun?

Albert Pujols?

 

[tomdalton22]

Nick C was on MLB raidio on XM this AM. The interview was about 10 minutes long. They were discussing his great improvement in the second half. He credited the hitting coaches and Brad for continuing to harp on him about plate discipline...not swinging at pitches out of the strike zone. They also asked him about guys like Miggy and VMart and how they help the younger players hit. He talked about a few of the guys and "picking their brains". When he mentioned Miggy he kind of paused and pretty much said that he is a freak but did not mention any impact on his own hitting (not exact words...just a round about way)

It was a good interview. He pretty much admitted that pitchers wouldn't throw him strikes because they knew that he would swing at balls. Last year there were a LOT of people that blamed Brad and the hitting coaches for the players swinging at shit pitches...Nick pretty much said that the opposite was true. I just hope he can continue the plate discipline that he showed in the second 1/2 of the season (.800 OPS post all star)

After the interview one of the guys said he sees 20+ HR and a higher OBP out of him this season. He is only 24...he is the one guy on this team that I could see having a big break out season.

 

[jdeb]

folly

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/j-d-martinez-on-his-many-adjustments/

or was it Jason Castro?

Ryan Braun?

Albert Pujols?

I heard him talk about that on XM around a month ago. He mentioned all those guys but talking, watching, and practising with Miggy really helped him from preparation to refinements. Said Miggy was amazing to watch and work with.

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[RoscoeWallace]

Funny how you just joined and think you already know me. Another userID for you is it?

I do know you , im Sonnett . You are the same one who said Seth Smith is better than Cespedes because of the sabermetrics . Sorry man but imo we are alot better off heading into this season then we were last season . If you dont agree then fine , but just cause you dont agree doesnt make you right . Im thrilled wth the team we have and am again excited to start the season , as we have an owner who is willing to do whatever he can to keep us in it . Who cares about 5 years from now

 

[Mitchrapp]

IMO, ever since JD came here and started smashing the ball I try and have some hope. You never know what might/could happen.

 

[JackCade]

First, you'll excuse me if I chuckle at the citation of Fangraphs projections as proof of the team's mediocrity.

Second, Cespedes has been in major league baseball for 4 years, he's 30 years old. He has 4 years of nice but limited track record. But at 30 years old, was 2015 Cespedes best season? Maybe, he is at his peak.

Meanwhile Upton has had 9 years in the big leagues 7 more or less full seasons, creating the same average as Cespedes but with a greater sample size (thus with more reliability), he is entering the meat of his career, it is unlikely that his 28 year, 2015 season was his best.

Cespedes may be the better in the field because of his arm, but not because of his ridiculously overrated glove (Gold Glove or play center fielder my ass) and a bit overrated season, but Upton is the better base runner and at least as good a hitter who is likely to get better as he enters the core of his prime years.

Finally, Cespedes wanted 6 years at $150+, so $25ish mil until he was 36 YEARS old.
No, Upton is the better deal, his deal goes through the meat of his prime years not beyond them. Upton is a way BETTER deal and he is probably the better player.


As for Tigers breakout season candidates in order of likelihood:
Maybin (was starting to have one)
Castellanos (will probably be mediocre on the field but above average at the plate)
Norris (the true aces are often good more or less out of the gate)
Iggy (he was a step slow this season, maybe not fully strong after a year spent on his couch)
McCann
Wilsons, Hardy, Lowe, Verhagn.

 

[RoscoeWallace]

First, you'll excuse me if I chuckle at the citation of Fangraphs projections as proof of the team's mediocrity.

Second, Cespedes has been in major league baseball for 4 years, he's 30 years old. He has 4 years of nice but limited track record. But at 30 years old, was 2015 Cespedes best season? Maybe, he is at his peak.

Meanwhile Upton has had 9 years in the big leagues 7 more or less full seasons, creating the same average as Cespedes but with a greater sample size (thus with more reliability), he is entering the meat of his career, it is unlikely that his 28 year, 2015 season was his best.

Cespedes may be the better in the field because of his arm, but not because of his ridiculously overrated glove (Gold Glove or play center fielder my ass) and a bit overrated season, but Upton is the better base runner and at least as good a hitter who is likely to get better as he enters the core of his prime years.

Finally, Cespedes wanted 6 years at $150+, so $25ish mil until he was 36 YEARS old.
No, Upton is the better deal, his deal goes through the meat of his prime years not beyond them. Upton is a way BETTER deal and he is probably the better player.

Im n ot gonna sit here and try to decide who is better than who , but one thing i do find in favor of Upton over Cespedes( who i absolutely love ) is he has always been called on to be THE MAN wherever he has gone . I think him sliding into this lineup and just being able to relax and play ball could do wonders for him . Granted i also think thats why Cespedes did good for us as well , he just fit right in and didnt have to be the main guy . But then again when he went to the mets he exploded in that situation where they relied on him to stay afloat ....haha so basically , who knows ??!!! Im just pretty exctited to have Upton in left and let Gose and Maybin tend centerfield .

 

[kalinecountry]

Players peak years are usually stated as 27/28 to 32/33.

Upton is 28 and has much better OBP as well.

He has been traded a bit, whatever the reason.

I'm on board with this signing.

Upton will wear uniform number 8.