Vegas gunman kills 58, wounds 515 during outdoor music concert

[Michchamp]

Shooting up NRA HQ was meant as snark, and hypothetical, as it might instead turn them into RW martyrs for the cause. Prohibition failed, the war on terrorism/drugs fails, all b/c of $$$ and corruption. Gun control would create a huge black market for ammo, since few would willingly give up their personal arsenals/stashes of assault weapons.

not prohibition, just banning assault weapons, and actually enforcing the background check requirements. of course it won't stop EVERYTHING, but no
laws ever do, and that shouldn't stop us from enforcing them.

no transfer (sale) of guns without background checks, even between individuals.

there was a story about how Nevada passed a law requiring all gun sales to be accompanied by checks, closing the "collector" and "gun show" loopholes... but of course, since then, the authorities who should be responsible keep passing the buck back and forth, (state police say FBI, FBI says state police) and so nothing is enforced or accomplished.

when you get down to it, it's fucking insane how human life really is sacrificed for profit. nothing should stand between sales, and no common sense regulations that could reduce shootings but imposes a cost on gun manufacturers or dealers - no matter how slight - will be tolerated.

this is our country... freedom for some. fear, death, danger for everyone else.

 

[biggunsbob]

How about a check that triggers a Red flag when a person/organization buys a certain amount of weapons and ammo? Say like 5 or 10 guns then a buzzer goes off and law enforcement does a more thorough check on them. Has to be something we can get the NRA politicians to agree on because when Bill OReilly that this is
"The price of freedom"

is just a frigging copout Bill !!!!

DO SOMETHING CONGRESS! !!!!

 

[turok]

not prohibition, just banning assault weapons, and actually enforcing the background check requirements. of course it won't stop EVERYTHING, but no
laws ever do, and that shouldn't stop us from enforcing them.

no transfer (sale) of guns without background checks, even between individuals.

there was a story about how Nevada passed a law requiring all gun sales to be accompanied by checks, closing the "collector" and "gun show" loopholes... but of course, since then, the authorities who should be responsible keep passing the buck back and forth, (state police say FBI, FBI says state police) and so nothing is enforced or accomplished.

when you get down to it, it's fucking insane how human life really is sacrificed for profit. nothing should stand between sales, and no common sense regulations that could reduce shootings but imposes a cost on gun manufacturers or dealers - no matter how slight - will be tolerated.

this is our country... freedom for some. fear, death, danger for everyone else.

I agree on banning assault weapons, but how are those that are already in the possession of ammosexuals going to be voluntarily surrendered or confiscated? Their black market value would soar, as would their accessories and ammo.

Was thinking this morning about how I would feel, had members of my family been gunned down by one or more of those assault rifle toting whackjobs. Knowing that an organization like the NRA is fighting tooth and nail to make it increasingly more likely and far easier for them to build an arsenal meant to kill and wound hundreds in a shorter and shorter period of time.

I have to believe that eventually more massacres which will be as bad or worse as Vegas are inevitable, and the aftermath of grief experienced by family members, relatives, friends, or especially wounded survivors of the murdered who witness the carnage firsthand, could eventually be channeled into seeking revenge.

 

[turok]

Allegedly one of the biggest excuses being expoused by the gun lobby and ammosexuals for hoarding WMD is to defend themselves vs govmint tyranny. Yet they have voted for RW state and federal government office holders who echo and support their 2nd Amendment stances, to the point of near supermajority and almost 2/3rds of state legislatures. So their stupid pararanoia and fears appear unfounded and w/o any merit.

That is, of course, unless they themselves wish to be the ones doling out the tyranny...but naww...real "patriots"would never do such a thing....:\

 

[Michchamp]

I've been thinking the same thing.

on banning assault rifles, I think that would only apply prospectively. trying to seize or outlaw ownership of existing assault rifles would play into the fucking insane "they're coming to take our guns" mentality and create havok.

Australia handled this well, I think; although they have less people and less gun nuts, and (amazingly, for the country that dreamed up Mad Max) are less insane overall than we are.

we should generally follow their approach, but more gradually. I think what the "ban" does is simply prohibit further manufacture of new assault weapons and parts. it does not affect existing ownership. eventually guns wear out and break, so the problem of widespread assault weapon ownership will go down, without new rifles & parts. it also makes new assault rifles harder to acquire, preventing future psychopaths to be from getting their hands on them. now wannabe Steve Jobs "tech gurus" like Gulo Blue may say "Aha! That's useless! We will 3-D print our spare parts! Your LAWS are meaningless."

sure... you can also cook your own meth, but it's still illegal and you'll go to prison if you do it. the fact that a law can be broken - even easily - doesn't mean it's invalid or shouldn't be enforced.

and beyond that, it will be more difficult and less effective to 3-D print things than it will be to simply go buy quality, mass-produced spare parts, so the ban still works to achieve its goal of reducing the number of assault rifles in private ownership.

couple that with some buy backs to get more assault rifles out of circulation.

there's no 100% perfect response here; even with a prospective ban, you can almost guarantee there will be more mass shootings with assault rifles in America. but the goal is to take gradual steps to reduce the threat & harm posed by widespread ownership of assault rifles.

 

[Spartanmack]

Allegedly one of the biggest excuses being expoused by the gun lobby and ammosexuals for hoarding WMD is to defend themselves vs govmint tyranny. Yet they have voted for RW state and federal government office holders who echo and support their 2nd Amendment stances, to the point of near supermajority and almost 2/3rds of state legislatures. So their stupid pararanoia and fears appear unfounded and w/o any merit.

That is, of course, unless they themselves wish to be the ones doling out the tyranny...but naww...real "patriots"would never do such a thing....:\

this is how they protect their second amendment rights, by voting in candidates to represent them. You're not really saying that just because Republicans have won a bunch of elections, that the 2nd amendment is less important are you? Should the 2nd amendment be repealed now and we can hope to get it back if/when government tyranny becomes a problem?

Also, the NRA ranks somewhere in the mid 150s of lobbying groups spending about $3.5mm per year and they spend less than half that on political contributions to candidates in 2016 (~$1.6mm total). That's peanuts. Anyone who says the politicians are in the pockets of the gun lobby are ill informed at best. Where the NRA spends it's money is on advertising and mailing campaigns. They're mobilizing voters, not buying politicians and voters clearly want to protect their second amendment rights.

 

[Michchamp]

... the problem of too many mentally ill fuckwads with access to massive firepower wasn't created overnight (it took the NRA, Republicans and gun manufacturers decades)... and it won't be solved overnight. it's going to take time, intelligent planning, fortitude, and patience to fix.

hahaha, after I typed that, I realized those three things are in short supply in America these days.

sigh... we're just fucked.

 

[Michchamp]

um, the NRA's actual spending dollars are heavily disputed right now. unsurprisingly, the NRA's own numbers seem unbelievably small. and given the bullshit arguments they make on behalf of gun ownership, anything else they publish should be taken with a heaping pile of salt.

also, the NRA isn't the only pro-gun-nut lobby.

and it also has state affiliates in all 50 states that lobby against state laws. are those numbers counted?

weigh these numbers against the money spent FOR control, not against other unrelated lobby cash.

also you're defending the NRA??? Why? WTF is wrong with you, you sick bastard?

 

[Spartanmack]

kind of a silly argument re: lobbying at the state level. Do you really think that's what's keeping the federal government from passing ineffective gun control laws? As for your argument about NRA affiliates doing the dirty work, here's a list of the top lobbying groups in America. None of them are "pro-gun-nut".

https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s&showYear=2017

If you're going to spew out these tid bits the burden of proof is on you to substantiate it. From what I can see, there is none. It's just more agenda driven smoke and mirrors.

here are the numbers on the NRA from opensecrets.org not exactly an pro-gun-nut group.

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=d000000082

It's pretty obvious the overwhelming majority of their spending is on voter outreach, not corrupting politicians.

 

[Michchamp]

here's an article (from 2012) that compares NRA's spending, on direct lobbying AND related expenditures (like negative ads against politicians it doesn't like) it conveniently ignores when it claims to only spend "$3 million" on lobbying.

no surprise the NRA's spending dwarfs the amount spent by gun control advocates & organizations. even including the $3 MM Bloomberg put up.

fuck the NRA

 

[tomdalton22]

here's an article (from 2012) that compares NRA's spending, on direct lobbying AND related expenditures (like negative ads against politicians it doesn't like) it conveniently ignores when it claims to only spend "$3 million" on lobbying.

no surprise the NRA's spending dwarfs the amount spent by gun control advocates & organizations. even including the $3 MM Bloomberg put up.

fuck the NRA

looks like the people that advocate gun control don't support the groups that promote it...$2.9M in total revenue?

 

[Michchamp]

looks like the people that advocate gun control don't support the groups that promote it...$2.9M in total revenue?

yeah, for whatever reason, there's less incentive to donate for control than gun promote gun sales. but I think that might be changing.

& beyond that, maybe the gun control lobby needs to find manufacturers who benefit from people not owning guns to support them... the NRA gets industry money

 

[Spartanmack]

here's an article (from 2012) that compares NRA's spending, on direct lobbying AND related expenditures (like negative ads against politicians it doesn't like) it conveniently ignores when it claims to only spend "$3 million" on lobbying.

no surprise the NRA's spending dwarfs the amount spent by gun control advocates & organizations. even including the $3 MM Bloomberg put up.

fuck the NRA

Telling the truth about anti-gun politicians through ad campaigns and mobilizing voters who care about their 2nd amendment rights isn't the same as lobbyists buying politicians. It's not even close.

 

[Spartanmack]

here's a NYT article about those evil NRA people you think oppose any and all gun regulation supporting proposed bump stock rules

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/us/las-vegas-shooting.html

I'm sure you're thinking something like "they're just throwing a bone to make themselves look reasonable" or "they think they can wash the blood off their hands by supporting something publicly while undercutting it through the back channels of their all-powerful lobby" even though we know that doesn't actually exist.

 

[biggunsbob]

I laughed my ass off when Ryan said he supported the NRA's bill on the bump stocks for guns. Yup Hack there is NRA Doing God's work LMAO with sarcasm !!!!

 

[turok]

Even semi-autos are people overkill, unless it was still the 1800s and used to "hunt" and extinct herds of wild bison out the windows of a moving train. Most conservatives are opposed to govmint owning land as well, so if all privatized, would need to pay or own/get permission for canned hunts on private property, where its doubtful that the owners would allow for semi-autos, even to practice. Again, no private citizen needs or should be legally permitted to possess assault weapons. Leave them to our so-called "well-regulated" militia to negotiate for possession/practice....like the Hutaree here in MI....lolz.

The 2nd Amendment's language should have been updated/clarified @ least twice since, each century, to cover hunting rifles, double-barrelled shotguns, and pistols, and excluding the use of large magazines, clips, assault rifles, and certain ammo (ex-armor-piercing) and accessories (ex-silencers/suppressors).

 

[Spartanmack]

I laughed my ass off when Ryan said he supported the NRA's bill on the bump stocks for guns. Yup Hack there is NRA Doing God's work LMAO with sarcasm !!!!

you're a weird guy bob.

 

[Michchamp]

check this story out: reformed gun nut, horrified by the Vegas massacre, turns his guns into police and posts about it on facebook. current members of the gun nut club (which displays cultish devotion to guns, it's really bizarre) threaten to murder him for leaving the cult. linky.

 

[biggunsbob]

you're a weird guy bob.

Why because I want both sides to work together on gun control or the hypocrisy of the NRA to offer up bump stocks? This is no solution and it is just like the NRA to do something along those lines. How about this . Stop letting any and all companies influence politicians, and fix the campaign finance laws .. Start with Citzens Untied!
Then make it easier for all Americans to vote !
Over 75% plus of Americans want some form of Gun control. They want our elected politicians to do something but because of the NRA the Gop sits idle like they always do. Yup I'm werido that I want machine guns and all military ammo off the streets !!!!

 

[turok]

check this story out: reformed gun nut, horrified by the Vegas massacre, turns his guns into police and posts about it on facebook. current members of the gun nut club (which displays cultish devotion to guns, it's really bizarre) threaten to murder him for leaving the cult. linky.

Although what he did by turning his weapons in is admirable, I have no problems with those who hunt using rifles meant for game using birdshot or buckshot. As far as owning/CCW pistols or small arms, I am a bit conflicted when it comes to those who have been the recipients of death threats, live or esp work in high-crime areas, or could be targets of whackjobs b/c of their high public profiles. So much irresponsible gun ownership has led to tragic and preventable serious woundings and deaths in Murka. But no mandatory gun classes are required to purchase weapons, and no registrations are necessary when buying them privately.

I myself have never had the slightest desire to own any weapons. This although I did go pheasant and deer hunting several times as a minor with my late maternal uncle and grandfather, as well as many times skeet shooting while using their rifles. Doing so did not stick with me when I reached adulthood. Perhaps one incident is a big reason why, when as a teen, I came home early one wee hours weekend morning, and had difficulty opening the front door to my parents home, b/c of being high and having to use two keys, one for the new deadbolt lock.

Upon finally gaining entrance, I was confronted by my father in his boxers and undershirt in the darkened foyer holding a pistol pointed @ me. Scared me instantly sober, I had no idea that he owned any guns, and he had never hunted or owned a rifle, while I lived with him. He could have mortally wounded me, since as a staff sargeant in the US Army during WWII, stationed in Australia, he had old sepia-looking pictures of him training servicemen on using rifles with fixed bayonettes, and had a long knife scar on his leg as a result.

I have always tried to maintain as minimal an IRL presence online as is possible, and have avoided registering on social media, or uploading images of myself or my location/possessions. Spent lots of time reading books and online about how to protect my privacy. This fellow may now want to reconsider, as those images that he uploaded likely contain EXIF/geolocation data. Or @ least buy a shotgun and ammo for awhile, until the ammosexual whackjob shitstorm blows over.