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Verlander traded to Houston, TJ Surgery, Wins 2 WS, Wins 3rd Cy Young, a Met, Astro again
- Thread starter johnny2x2x
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https://www.pscp.tv/w/1YqGomakbQbxv
Podcast DSR Periscope ? Verlander Trade Fallout. 24 minutes. starts at 3 minute mark.
Podcast DSR Periscope ? Verlander Trade Fallout. 24 minutes. starts at 3 minute mark.
Verlander is a generational pitcher with the exceptional bonus of pitching at an ace level for more than just a few years...that makes him extremely rare and irreplaceable....for more than a decade or two.
There have to be some people available much more capable to manage the Tigers, during a ground-up rebuild, other than Ausmus and co...would not want Tram and/or Gibby 2.0 though...always thought that Carlos Guillen would make for a good skipper someday. But the entire shebang including the FO, farm, and scouting needs an overhaul. That would involve more than just a typical rebuild, and several more years perhaps to the mid-20s.
Since the Tigers franchise is located in a middle-market, both in population and economy, the owners needed to run it like the Cardinals have...but they epic failed, esp during the pizza barons' eras of Tom Monaghan, and the first half of the late Mike Ilitch. While I enjoyed and appreciated the latter's efforts to jump-start the ballclub back into relevance and contention, after the infamous '03 debacle, there was going to come a time to pay the piper for pretending that this is/was a large market region, ala CHI, NYC, LA, TX...ect.
St Louis lost their NFL franchise twice, has not had an NBA franchise, and their NHL Blues has gone many decades w/o winning a Stanley Cup...so I guess that we Detroit sports fans get and have had more to celebrate and watch year round, even considering the Tigers and esp Lions long championship droughts.
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http://www.freep.com/story/sports/c...roit-tigers-justin-verlander-trade/628343001/
Justin Verlander goes to a winner, Detroit Tigers fans feel lost.
Freep
The Tigers shipped off three former All-Stars (Verlander, Martinez, Upton) mostly for kids who have never played a major league inning.
You want to trust their judgment of talent, but if that judgment had been good enough, they would have developed their own players instead of needing to import someone else?s.
Over the last decade, the Tigers held a lot of cards and could not lay down a winning hand.
Only one team in baseball had four past or future Cy Young winners on its roster in 2014 (Verlander, Max Scherzer, David Price, Rick Porcello) and couldn?t win a playoff game.
Now all those pitchers are gone, and the team hasn?t seen a post-season since. That?s a blemish.
Justin Verlander goes to a winner, Detroit Tigers fans feel lost.
Freep
The Tigers shipped off three former All-Stars (Verlander, Martinez, Upton) mostly for kids who have never played a major league inning.
You want to trust their judgment of talent, but if that judgment had been good enough, they would have developed their own players instead of needing to import someone else?s.
Over the last decade, the Tigers held a lot of cards and could not lay down a winning hand.
Only one team in baseball had four past or future Cy Young winners on its roster in 2014 (Verlander, Max Scherzer, David Price, Rick Porcello) and couldn?t win a playoff game.
Now all those pitchers are gone, and the team hasn?t seen a post-season since. That?s a blemish.
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http://www.espn.com/blog/buster-oln...-departure-marks-the-end-of-an-era-for-tigers
Verlander's departure marks the end of an era for Tigers.
BusterShitheadespn
Verlander's departure marks the end of an era for Tigers.
Detroit Tigers general manager Al Avila scouted Justin Verlander in the spring of 2004, when Verlander pitched for Old Dominion on a day that Avila recalls as cold and overcast. Verlander struggled and threw a lot of pitches, and Avila, watching from the stands, assumed that a reliever would be summoned for the sixth or seventh inning.
?He ended up going nine innings,? Avila said, ?still throwing 100 mph late in the game.?
The Tigers selected Verlander with the second overall pick in the draft that year, and Avila was in the room when Verlander signed that first contract. Avila?s son, Alex Avila, would become Verlander?s personal catcher, the two growing so close that the families of Alex and Justin vacationed together. So with all of that history, the goodbye between Verlander and Al Avila, after the Detroit GM traded Verlander at midnight Thursday, was more than a formal handshake. It was more like seeing off a nephew moving to another part of the country.
?We hugged like three times in the clubhouse today,? said Avila, speaking from his office Friday evening.
Sentiment has been pushed to the side out of necessity in Detroit, to the degree that Avila also traded his son, among many other players. J.D. Martinez was the first to go, followed by Justin Wilson, Justin Upton and Verlander.
Al Avila had advised his boss, Detroit chief executive officer and president Chris Ilitch, that the Tigers? trajectory was not sustainable. The aging team has been propped up on expensive contracts and a record-setting payroll and was badly in need of young (and cheap) talent. With the blessing of ownership, Avila made moves that have greatly reduced the team?s debt -- big player contracts -- and improved a farm system which has generally been among the sport?s worst over the past decade.
But the trades of Martinez, Alex Avila, Wilson, Upton and Verlander also seem to signal the end of an era when the Tigers -- operating under Mike Ilitch, who died in February -- spent well beyond the business potential of the team.
?We?re not going to [be] spending like we were, going over the luxury tax, clicking the debt-service rule,? Avila said. ?We pushed the envelope and had some success. It wasn?t the best business model. We really have a different philosophy.?
Which means that as the Tigers advance beyond a rebuilding cycle that is just now beginning, their payroll will look closer to that of the Houston Astros than that of the Los Angeles Dodgers or New York Yankees. Detroit has long been an outlier with its spending, but now the onus will be on the front office to pick the right players, such as Alex Faedo, the pitcher they chose in the first round of June's draft, and to foster development of the farm system. Draft and develop; build from within.
Avila reiterated Friday that he was not under orders to dump salary this summer; rather, Ilitch greenlit Avila?s plan to wait for what the Tigers deemed to be right and proper offers for the talent of Verlander and the others. For example: Second baseman Ian Kinsler was claimed on waivers in August, and the Tigers pulled him back, rather than unload his salary, and Detroit holds an option on Kinsler for 2018.
As the summer trade period began, Avila and his staff identified what they thought would be a fair return for Verlander, and the Tigers had extensive conversations with the Astros, Chicago Cubs, Dodgers, Yankees and other teams before the July 31 non-waiver deadline. But the right offer didn't take shape for the Tigers; they were fully prepared to carry the star pitcher into the winter of 2017-18.
Verlander passed through waivers in early August, unsurprisingly, given his full no-trade clause and the $56 million owed to him for the next two seasons. Houston could have placed a claim, but did not. Through the first 30 days of August, Avila offered the same assessment to Verlander whenever the two men discussed the chances for a trade: ?It?s possible, but I don?t think it?s probable.?
The Astros? perspective apparently shifted dramatically, however, through a difficult August. By the middle of last week, Houston stepped up its offer for Verlander significantly, in the eyes of the Tigers, and Avila began to inform teams he thought he had a chance to make a deal. Verlander helped the Tigers? effort by posting a 2.31 ERA over his final 11 starts for Detroit, his average fastball velocity reaching 95.3 mph, 10th-best in baseball.
As the Astros and Tigers made progress Thursday evening and the midnight deadline approached, Avila -- working from his home with his staff -- called Verlander and told him that there was a deal to which the pitcher would need to say "yes" or "no."
?Let me think about it and call you back,? Verlander said.
Not long afterward, Avila recalled, Verlander called back and said "yes." In order for the deal to become official, Avila needed Verlander to formally sign a paper that indicated he was waiving his no-trade clause, and Avila dispatched two staffers to Verlander?s home a few miles away. Verlander signed, and the document was quickly emailed to the central office at Major League Baseball.
Detroit landed three of Houston?s best prospects, including pitcher Franklin Perez, who is already the highest-ranked Tigers minor leaguer on MLB.com's prospect watch, and outfielder Daz Cameron, the son of longtime major leaguer Mike Cameron.
Mike Ilitch bought the Tigers in 1992 and he doled out big dollars to keep the team filled with stars: Ivan Rodriguez, Magglio Ordonez, Kenny Rogers, Prince Fielder, Miguel Cabrera, Upton and Verlander. Detroit reached the postseason five times in nine years and hosted World Series games in 2006 and 2012. Some Tigers will believe for the rest of their lives that they were baseball?s best team in 2013, before one swing by David Ortiz tipped the American League Championship Series in Boston?s favor and the Red Sox prevailed.
But that kind of Tigers team -- a club saturated with expensive veteran stars -- might be extinct now. Moving forward, Detroit?s market earnings will define the club?s budget and, inevitably, a more conservative approach.
Verlander's departure marks the end of an era for Tigers.
BusterShitheadespn
Verlander's departure marks the end of an era for Tigers.
Detroit Tigers general manager Al Avila scouted Justin Verlander in the spring of 2004, when Verlander pitched for Old Dominion on a day that Avila recalls as cold and overcast. Verlander struggled and threw a lot of pitches, and Avila, watching from the stands, assumed that a reliever would be summoned for the sixth or seventh inning.
?He ended up going nine innings,? Avila said, ?still throwing 100 mph late in the game.?
The Tigers selected Verlander with the second overall pick in the draft that year, and Avila was in the room when Verlander signed that first contract. Avila?s son, Alex Avila, would become Verlander?s personal catcher, the two growing so close that the families of Alex and Justin vacationed together. So with all of that history, the goodbye between Verlander and Al Avila, after the Detroit GM traded Verlander at midnight Thursday, was more than a formal handshake. It was more like seeing off a nephew moving to another part of the country.
?We hugged like three times in the clubhouse today,? said Avila, speaking from his office Friday evening.
Sentiment has been pushed to the side out of necessity in Detroit, to the degree that Avila also traded his son, among many other players. J.D. Martinez was the first to go, followed by Justin Wilson, Justin Upton and Verlander.
Al Avila had advised his boss, Detroit chief executive officer and president Chris Ilitch, that the Tigers? trajectory was not sustainable. The aging team has been propped up on expensive contracts and a record-setting payroll and was badly in need of young (and cheap) talent. With the blessing of ownership, Avila made moves that have greatly reduced the team?s debt -- big player contracts -- and improved a farm system which has generally been among the sport?s worst over the past decade.
But the trades of Martinez, Alex Avila, Wilson, Upton and Verlander also seem to signal the end of an era when the Tigers -- operating under Mike Ilitch, who died in February -- spent well beyond the business potential of the team.
?We?re not going to [be] spending like we were, going over the luxury tax, clicking the debt-service rule,? Avila said. ?We pushed the envelope and had some success. It wasn?t the best business model. We really have a different philosophy.?
Which means that as the Tigers advance beyond a rebuilding cycle that is just now beginning, their payroll will look closer to that of the Houston Astros than that of the Los Angeles Dodgers or New York Yankees. Detroit has long been an outlier with its spending, but now the onus will be on the front office to pick the right players, such as Alex Faedo, the pitcher they chose in the first round of June's draft, and to foster development of the farm system. Draft and develop; build from within.
Avila reiterated Friday that he was not under orders to dump salary this summer; rather, Ilitch greenlit Avila?s plan to wait for what the Tigers deemed to be right and proper offers for the talent of Verlander and the others. For example: Second baseman Ian Kinsler was claimed on waivers in August, and the Tigers pulled him back, rather than unload his salary, and Detroit holds an option on Kinsler for 2018.
As the summer trade period began, Avila and his staff identified what they thought would be a fair return for Verlander, and the Tigers had extensive conversations with the Astros, Chicago Cubs, Dodgers, Yankees and other teams before the July 31 non-waiver deadline. But the right offer didn't take shape for the Tigers; they were fully prepared to carry the star pitcher into the winter of 2017-18.
Verlander passed through waivers in early August, unsurprisingly, given his full no-trade clause and the $56 million owed to him for the next two seasons. Houston could have placed a claim, but did not. Through the first 30 days of August, Avila offered the same assessment to Verlander whenever the two men discussed the chances for a trade: ?It?s possible, but I don?t think it?s probable.?
The Astros? perspective apparently shifted dramatically, however, through a difficult August. By the middle of last week, Houston stepped up its offer for Verlander significantly, in the eyes of the Tigers, and Avila began to inform teams he thought he had a chance to make a deal. Verlander helped the Tigers? effort by posting a 2.31 ERA over his final 11 starts for Detroit, his average fastball velocity reaching 95.3 mph, 10th-best in baseball.
As the Astros and Tigers made progress Thursday evening and the midnight deadline approached, Avila -- working from his home with his staff -- called Verlander and told him that there was a deal to which the pitcher would need to say "yes" or "no."
?Let me think about it and call you back,? Verlander said.
Not long afterward, Avila recalled, Verlander called back and said "yes." In order for the deal to become official, Avila needed Verlander to formally sign a paper that indicated he was waiving his no-trade clause, and Avila dispatched two staffers to Verlander?s home a few miles away. Verlander signed, and the document was quickly emailed to the central office at Major League Baseball.
Detroit landed three of Houston?s best prospects, including pitcher Franklin Perez, who is already the highest-ranked Tigers minor leaguer on MLB.com's prospect watch, and outfielder Daz Cameron, the son of longtime major leaguer Mike Cameron.
Mike Ilitch bought the Tigers in 1992 and he doled out big dollars to keep the team filled with stars: Ivan Rodriguez, Magglio Ordonez, Kenny Rogers, Prince Fielder, Miguel Cabrera, Upton and Verlander. Detroit reached the postseason five times in nine years and hosted World Series games in 2006 and 2012. Some Tigers will believe for the rest of their lives that they were baseball?s best team in 2013, before one swing by David Ortiz tipped the American League Championship Series in Boston?s favor and the Red Sox prevailed.
But that kind of Tigers team -- a club saturated with expensive veteran stars -- might be extinct now. Moving forward, Detroit?s market earnings will define the club?s budget and, inevitably, a more conservative approach.
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http://scout.com/mlb/tigers/Article...in-Perez-Jake-Rogers-and-Daz-Camero-106746956
Tigers Land Trio of Prospects for Verlander at Deadline.
Just before midnight, the Tigers pulled off a blockbuster, landing a trio of impressive prospects for Justin Verlander, ending an impressive era of success in Detroit.
TigsTown
https://www.minorleagueball.com/2017/9/2/16246702/prospects-justin-verlander-trade-astros-tigers
Tigers trade Justin Verlander to Astros for three prospects.
Here?s a look at Franklin Perez, Daz Cameron, and Jake Rogers, traded from the Astros to the Tigers for Justin Verlander at the final trade deadline.
MinorLeagueBall
https://2080baseball.com/2017/03/2017-orgrev-hou/
2017 ORGANIZATIONAL REVIEW: HOUSTON ASTROS. scroll down...
20/80Baseball
Tigers Land Trio of Prospects for Verlander at Deadline.
Just before midnight, the Tigers pulled off a blockbuster, landing a trio of impressive prospects for Justin Verlander, ending an impressive era of success in Detroit.
TigsTown
https://www.minorleagueball.com/2017/9/2/16246702/prospects-justin-verlander-trade-astros-tigers
Tigers trade Justin Verlander to Astros for three prospects.
Here?s a look at Franklin Perez, Daz Cameron, and Jake Rogers, traded from the Astros to the Tigers for Justin Verlander at the final trade deadline.
MinorLeagueBall
https://2080baseball.com/2017/03/2017-orgrev-hou/
2017 ORGANIZATIONAL REVIEW: HOUSTON ASTROS. scroll down...
20/80Baseball
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http://detroitsportsrag.com/how-the-news-almost-nuked-the-verlander-trade/
HOW THE DETROIT NEWS ALMOST NUKED THE VERLANDER TRADE.
DRS
HOW THE DETROIT NEWS ALMOST NUKED THE VERLANDER TRADE.
DRS
I switched from subscribing to the Detroit News to the Oakland Press, prior to the strike of '95-'97, partly b/c the Press was an am paper, and I worked the graveyard shift for the USPS, and had bought a house 2 years earlier. My father had subscribed to the News for years, when I was a child/teen, so I did as well for awhile. But the Freep was editorial liberal compared to the stodgy conservative News, until they merged.
Shortly after I had broadband internet hooked up in '01, I cancelled my Oakland Press subscription. Apparently the ahole who delivered to my neighborhood wasn't too happy about it, b/c I got 2 calls on my unpublished landline phone right afterward, and upon answering there was dead silence on the other end, until I heard it disconnect. The OP was one of the few businesses who had my number back then, but I didn't have caller ID as yet.
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The News hasn't been "conservative" in year.. Even before the merge.
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Not a chance, lol.
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For fun I check some others, NY Times - LEFT-CENTER BIAS These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias.
NY Times has never been slight or moderate. They're about as extreme as you can get.
NY Times has never been slight or moderate. They're about as extreme as you can get.
Depends on one's POV.
Besides which,i was camparing the two newspapers pre-merger, not the public, which has only become more divided since then.
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Exactly, which is why those sites don't mean much. Just for fun.
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Just opinions, and opinions vary. Now, is that media bias site conservative or liberal?
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So I checked Media Bias Fact Check.. On their own web page.
LEFT BIAS These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. Lol.
LEFT BIAS These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. Lol.
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Didn't read my second link. did you?
And that was a description of a rating, not the site itself.
Link a site which claims that the Detroit News is or was a liberal rag.
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I missed your post, and yes I know. Misread. Point is, it doesn't mean a thing. I doubt the people at MBFS are in the middle.
As for the original discussion, not sure how conservative the News is but they're far less conservative then they were when I was a kid.
Or could it be that you yourself are more conservative than you were as a kid, mayhaps?
However, I have not read the newspaper or its online version in over 20 years, so whatever it is now is completely unknown to me.
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