We have a top 5 defense

[johnny2x2x]

#4 actually now after Stanford have up 500+ to Oregon. Remember when everyone was saying our D was going to take a big step back because we lost 6 starters? This defense reloads. We are about 10 yards a game behind Clemson for #1. And we've played two top 12 offenses in Oregon and Nebraska. So or the D has been improving steadily game by game, not quite as good as last year's but gaining. I always thought the ceiling was higher for this year's D because of more size speed and athleticism, could be the best D Narduzzi has had by the end of the year.

Really, as guys improve there's not a lot we miss from last year. DTs have been better than last year. Ed Davis is as good as Denicos, only bigger and faster. Darian Hicks has been great and our CBs are still elite. Taiwan Jones is now playing at a higher level than Max could, he's an intimidating force out there. Even though he's seeing more double teams Calhoun will have more sacks this year than last. And the safety play has finally gotten up to standard. Drummond is coming in and RJ Williamson is playing like a man possessed. RJ is such a freak athlete at 215 lbs, you see him run away from Michigan's supposed fastest player on the pick six last week?

If they keep improving, this D has a chance to be special and again be one of the best in the land. So much talent in the pipeline too and you can see the younger guys like McDowell and Nicholson are incredible athletes. Future looks bright too.

 

[Sbee]

It takes a while to tighten the screws of gap assignments and safety play. Msu does tend to get better as the year goes on, I expect an excellent performance next week

 

[tomdalton22]

It takes a while to tighten the screws of gap assignments and safety play. Msu does tend to get better as the year goes on, I expect an excellent performance next week

The two games that Barrett faced quick pressure he sucked. If MSU can slow the running game and get to Barrett quickly I expect MSU to win by 2 TDs.

 

[Spartanmack]

#4 actually now after Stanford have up 500+ to Oregon. Remember when everyone was saying our D was going to take a big step back because we lost 6 starters? This defense reloads. We are about 10 yards a game behind Clemson for #1. And we've played two top 12 offenses in Oregon and Nebraska. So or the D has been improving steadily game by game, not quite as good as last year's but gaining. I always thought the ceiling was higher for this year's D because of more size speed and athleticism, could be the best D Narduzzi has had by the end of the year.

Really, as guys improve there's not a lot we miss from last year. DTs have been better than last year. Ed Davis is as good as Denicos, only bigger and faster. Darian Hicks has been great and our CBs are still elite. Taiwan Jones is now playing at a higher level than Max could, he's an intimidating force out there. Even though he's seeing more double teams Calhoun will have more sacks this year than last. And the safety play has finally gotten up to standard. Drummond is coming in and RJ Williamson is playing like a man possessed. RJ is such a freak athlete at 215 lbs, you see him run away from Michigan's supposed fastest player on the pick six last week?

If they keep improving, this D has a chance to be special and again be one of the best in the land. So much talent in the pipeline too and you can see the younger guys like McDowell and Nicholson are incredible athletes. Future looks bright too.

Not too hard to pad the stats once you get past Oregon. They still give up way more big plays than last year - especially the secondary. They shut down Abdullah but Coleman racked up 132 yards when IU was starting their 5th string QB. Top 5 or not, other than the line this unit is not as good as last year. Jones is more athletic than Bullough but he is nowhere near as good at reading offenses and getting the team set up. And Dennard/Lewis was a way better CB/Safety combo than Waynes/Drummond.

 

[Sbee]

Not too hard to pad the stats once you get past Oregon. They still give up way more big plays than last year - especially the secondary. They shut down Abdullah but Coleman racked up 132 yards when IU was starting their 5th string QB. Top 5 or not, other than the line this unit is not as good as last year. Jones is more athletic than Bullough but he is nowhere near as good at reading offenses and getting the team set up. And Dennard/Lewis was a way better CB/Safety combo than Waynes/Drummond.

we are weaker in a few spots in the secondary and better on the D Line. using coleman is a bad example though, he had one big run and that was it. I would bet that he averaged less than 3 yards per carry on the other carries. the one play he busted was one where heath was double teamed and Malik moved his man back too far trying for a tackle for loss but he lost his gap assignment and then Coleman was gone. I know those busts are what happen on big plays but that was a anomaly for the day, it's not like they were moving the ball well against us.

 

[Spartanmack]

we are weaker in a few spots in the secondary and better on the D Line. using coleman is a bad example though, he had one big run and that was it. I would bet that he averaged less than 3 yards per carry on the other carries. the one play he busted was one where heath was double teamed and Malik moved his man back too far trying for a tackle for loss but he lost his gap assignment and then Coleman was gone. I know those busts are what happen on big plays but that was a anomaly for the day, it's not like they were moving the ball well against us.

I would love to take that bet but it wouldn't be fair since I looked at it 2 weeks ago. Coleman averaged almost 5 yards per carry without the 65 yard run. And it's not that bad of an example as Indiana was down 3 scores most of the game so they were forced the throw the ball and still racked up 213 yards rushing (over 235 without the sacks). And Waynes had a chance to tackle Coleman early but hit him like he was playing two hand touch.

And it's not such an anomaly - Purdue busted runs for 52 and 36 yards, Wyoming had a 57 yarder, Oregon had runs of 40 and 38 yards and those are just based on the longest run for each ball carrier in the box score so there are probably at least a few more runs over 15 or 20 yards.

I'm not saying the defense is bad and I do think they're getting better, but it's not as good as last year's unit overall and I was right 10+ weeks ago when I pointed out the fact that losing 6 starter was going to hurt and it definitely did in the 2nd half of the Oregon game - the offense was worse in that stretch but the defense wasn't ready for that challenge in week 2.

 

[johnny2x2x]

I would love to take that bet but it wouldn't be fair since I looked at it 2 weeks ago. Coleman averaged almost 5 yards per carry without the 65 yard run. And it's not that bad of an example as Indiana was down 3 scores most of the game so they were forced the throw the ball and still racked up 213 yards rushing (over 235 without the sacks). And Waynes had a chance to tackle Coleman early but hit him like he was playing two hand touch.

And it's not such an anomaly - Purdue busted runs for 52 and 36 yards, Wyoming had a 57 yarder, Oregon had runs of 40 and 38 yards and those are just based on the longest run for each ball carrier in the box score so there are probably at least a few more runs over 15 or 20 yards.

I'm not saying the defense is bad and I do think they're getting better, but it's not as good as last year's unit overall and I was right 10+ weeks ago when I pointed out the fact that losing 6 starter was going to hurt and it definitely did in the 2nd half of the Oregon game - the offense was worse in that stretch but the defense wasn't ready for that challenge in week 2.

The 120 degree on the field heat against an offense specifically designed to wear down a defense is what screwed our D vs Oregon. Blew a couple assignments and were the victims of a pick play too.

This defense is not as good as last year, but as I said, they are gaining on them and by the end of the season could be better. Every single team in the nation loses multiple starters every year, we lost 6 on defense and still have a top 5 defense that is trending up, that is pretty incredible. The point is that many said we'd be taking a huge step back, going from the #2 to the #5 defense when we've played better offenses than last year is not a bg step back.

 

[Spartanmack]

The 120 degree on the field heat against an offense specifically designed to wear down a defense is what screwed our D vs Oregon. Blew a couple assignments and were the victims of a pick play too.

This defense is not as good as last year, but as I said, they are gaining on them and by the end of the season could be better. Every single team in the nation loses multiple starters every year, we lost 6 on defense and still have a top 5 defense that is trending up, that is pretty incredible. The point is that many said we'd be taking a huge step back, going from the #2 to the #5 defense when we've played better offenses than last year is not a bg step back.

We had Oregon's defense on the field longer than ours and they stepped up and pretty much shut down our offense in the late 3rd and 4th quarter. And even in the 1st half, before our D got worn out, we were giving up a bunch of big plays. The defense is still good and better than expected and as you say, on the upswing. I don't recall people saying they would take a huge step back but losing more than half your starters, 4 of them key starters, did anyone expect them to be as good? Probably not and I still don't think they are. Sure Jones is a freak but he's not the "QB of the defense" that Bullough was and the secondary is definitely not as good as last year or as good as you say in my opinion.

And you can't say we're facing better offenses - excluding swapping out ND for Oregon, which offenses are better? IU? They lost 2 quarterbacks a couple weeks before and were forced to start their 5th stringer after their backup and third stringer left. Is Nebraska much better than last year? Purdue is not better, Michigan is probably worse. And the teams we still have to face - no way OSU is better without Hyde and Miller - they may not be much worse, but they're definitely not better. Penn State is also not better. Are MD and RU better than Minn and Illinois? Maybe, but probably not much.

 

[johnny2x2x]

Nebraska had the #60 offense last season, this year they are #21, were top ten before they faced us. And yeah, Oregon's top 5 offense is a ton better than Notre Dame's #69 2013 offense. Purdue's offense is better this year too 104th to 121st. Michigan's offense is worse this year and Indiana's is much worse without their QBs, but over all we have faced better offenses.

Ohio State's offense last year averaged 511 ypg, this year 505 ypg. But we haven't played them yet though. Minny and Maryland have equally as bad offenses. Illinois was slightly better last year than Rutgers is this year. Last year we faced two top 40 offenses all season, this year we'll have faced 3 in our 1st 9 games. 3 top 25 actually.

Bottom line, the defense is still elite and the offense is much much better than last season.

 

[Spartanmack]

Nebraska had the #60 offense last season, this year they are #21, were top ten before they faced us. And yeah, Oregon's top 5 offense is a ton better than Notre Dame's #69 2013 offense. Purdue's offense is better this year too 104th to 121st. Michigan's offense is worse this year and Indiana's is much worse without their QBs, but over all we have faced better offenses.

Ohio State's offense last year averaged 511 ypg, this year 505 ypg. But we haven't played them yet though. Minny and Maryland have equally as bad offenses. Illinois was slightly better last year than Rutgers is this year. Last year we faced two top 40 offenses all season, this year we'll have faced 3 in our 1st 9 games. 3 top 25 actually.

Bottom line, the defense is still elite and the offense is much much better than last season.

Seriously Johnny, did you really just say Purdue's offense is better this year? Do you really think the 101st ranked offense would perform materially better than the 120th against any of the 10 or 20 best defenses? Purdue is completely irrelevant to this argument. And this year, before playing us Nebraska played 5 games against nobodies - even McNeese State held them to their season average output and they put up better than their average against Miami. And last year their schedule looked a lot different w/ UCLA in nonconference play who held them well below their average. Also, wasn't Armstrong playing hurt the second half of the season? And that 6 yds/game you're talking about for OSU is meaningless but what isn't meaningless is the standard deviation of those averages. So far this year the std dev of OSU's total offense is 146.3 yards while through this point last year it was just 102.6 yards (92.6 thru B1G play and 97.9 for the year). That is a world of difference. Last year, they were undoubtedly better on offense with Miller and Hyde (the data and their record shows it).

Obviously, Oregon is much better than ND but Oregon torched us for 491 yards (just 33.8 below their average - well w/in 1 std dev and WAY above the average our defense is giving up). Beyond that, you can't say we're facing materially better offenses this year because it's just not true.

 

[johnny2x2x]

Seriously Johnny, did you really just say Purdue's offense is better this year? Do you really think the 101st ranked offense would perform materially better than the 120th against any of the 10 or 20 best defenses? Purdue is completely irrelevant to this argument. And this year, before playing us Nebraska played 5 games against nobodies - even McNeese State held them to their season average output and they put up better than their average against Miami. And last year their schedule looked a lot different w/ UCLA in nonconference play who held them well below their average. Also, wasn't Armstrong playing hurt the second half of the season? And that 6 yds/game you're talking about for OSU is meaningless but what isn't meaningless is the standard deviation of those averages. So far this year the std dev of OSU's total offense is 146.3 yards while through this point last year it was just 102.6 yards (92.6 thru B1G play and 97.9 for the year). That is a world of difference. Last year, they were undoubtedly better on offense with Miller and Hyde (the data and their record shows it).

Obviously, Oregon is much better than ND but Oregon torched us for 491 yards (just 33.8 below their average - well w/in 1 std dev and WAY above the average our defense is giving up). Beyond that, you can't say we're facing materially better offenses this year because it's just not true.

LOL, you want to throw out the obviously best offense we faced in either season in Oregon. We faced arguably the best offense in the whole country and are still statistically an elite defense. Oregon is the primary reason we have faced better offenses, take them away and the discussion is pointless. It's like saying, we were undefeated last season if you don't consider the ND game, whys the point.

Defense is still elite and I think Ohio State has an offense that plays into its hands as Barrett throws a poor deep ball.

 

[Spartanmack]

LOL, you want to throw out the obviously best offense we faced in either season in Oregon. We faced arguably the best offense in the whole country and are still statistically an elite defense. Oregon is the primary reason we have faced better offenses, take them away and the discussion is pointless. It's like saying, we were undefeated last season if you don't consider the ND game, whys the point.

Defense is still elite and I think Ohio State has an offense that plays into its hands as Barrett throws a poor deep ball.

Who's throwing it out? I mentioned them as being clearly better in both my last 2 posts. And unlike you, I also mentioned that they torched our defense for almost 500 yards and 46 points (the most in over 3 years). So, while Oregon is leaps and bound better, that game clearly provides no evidence that our defense is as good as last year. Do you not see that? Do you think having Oregon put up 500 yards and the most points against our D since Bama in Jan 2011 helps your argument? If so, let me "LOL" at that because that could be the dumbest thing I've ever read on this forum. Or are you saying that Oregon is capable of knocking elite defenses out of elite status with 1 game (out of 12) but they didn't do that to MSU even though they didn't do meaningfully less against us than they did against the rest of their schedule? If so, "LOL" at that too.

And if you're changing your tune and dropping the case for teams like Purdue (as you should because they suck and are irrelevant), then you should drop the "s" from "offenses" and say "we faced a better 'offense' this year" and to be really honest, you should add "and that better offense completely blew our defense off the field. But I still think they're elite"

And for good measure, let me just add one more "LOL"

 

[tomdalton22]

Yards per game...there are 5 teams from the Big 10 in the top 10, MSU is #5 and 3rd of the 5 Big 10 teams.

Points per game....there are 2 teams from the Big 10 in the top 10 (MSU not one of them, they are 22nd)

Teams in the Big 10 above MSU in points per game allowed

Wisky
PSU
Nebraska
OSU
Iowa

Does anybody think that the Big10 has 5 of the top 10 defenses in football? I don't think the defenses in the Big 10 are all that great...I think that most of the offenses suck so it inflates the defensive stats.

 

[Spartanmack]

Yards per game...there are 5 teams from the Big 10 in the top 10, MSU is #5 and 3rd of the 5 Big 10 teams.

Points per game....there are 2 teams from the Big 10 in the top 10 (MSU not one of them, they are 22nd)

Teams in the Big 10 above MSU in points per game allowed

Wisky
PSU
Nebraska
OSU
Iowa

Does anybody think that the Big10 has 5 of the top 10 defenses in football? I don't think the defenses in the Big 10 are all that great...I think that most of the offenses suck so it inflates the defensive stats.

No, just MSU because they're the only one of the 5 who played Oregon. Sure Oregon set 3 year highs in yards and points against our D, but just having them on the schedule is what matters.

 

[jwlcosu]

Defense is still elite and I think Ohio State has an offense that plays into its hands as Barrett throws a poor deep ball.

Not so sure about that. If JT has time you're going to be surprised by his ability to throw downfield. If you can bring the pressure, game over.

 

[Spartanmack]

Not so sure about that. If JT has time you're going to be surprised by his ability to throw downfield. If you can bring the pressure, game over.

just curious, do you think your offense is as good this year as it was last year?

 

[tomdalton22]

just curious, do you think your offense is as good this year as it was last year?

I think the two offenses are totally different. Last year it was all Braxton Miller and Hyde. This year their offense is more diverse but they don't have the huge threat of Miller busting a 60 yard run. Statistically, they are about the same but I would have to give the edge to last years offense.

 

[Sbee]

Yards per game...there are 5 teams from the Big 10 in the top 10, MSU is #5 and 3rd of the 5 Big 10 teams.

Points per game....there are 2 teams from the Big 10 in the top 10 (MSU not one of them, they are 22nd)

Teams in the Big 10 above MSU in points per game allowed

Wisky
PSU
Nebraska
OSU
Iowa

Does anybody think that the Big10 has 5 of the top 10 defenses in football? I don't think the defenses in the Big 10 are all that great...I think that most of the offenses suck so it inflates the defensive stats.

I guess we can't win. If defensive stats are good it's because the offenses are bad. Msu is rolling up a ton of points but it must be bad defense.

also, mizzou lost to a shitty IU team and lsu and Wisconsin played down to the wire.

I'm not saying the big ten is great but I think the SEC is actually down this year.

 

[Spartan23MSU]

Our D is good but not nearly as good as last year. No Fly Zone, not this year..

 

[tomdalton22]

I guess we can't win. If defensive stats are good it's because the offenses are bad. Msu is rolling up a ton of points but it must be bad defense.

also, mizzou lost to a shitty IU team and lsu and Wisconsin played down to the wire.

I'm not saying the big ten is great but I think the SEC is actually down this year.

The Big10 is not great...there are a few good teams, a few above average and the rest is terrible. The SEC has a few "really good" teams, some good teams, some above average teams and only a few garbage teams. The Big10 has a bunch of garbage teams!