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Weapon of Mass Destruction??? WTF?

zyxt9

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Messages
7,162
Okay, someone please explain this to me.

How the fuck is a pressure cooker bomb categorized as a Weapon of Mass Destruction when it did not include any traces of chemical nor biological nor nuclear material?

I am so completely baffled how this can even remotely be a WMD particularly after all the bruhaha from the Bush admin.

Not that I don't want the fucker to get the death penalty, but it should be done in accordance with the reality of US laws and not trumped up charges.

Oh, and IMHO, all terrorists should be charged as Enemy Combatants. They are performing their actions more as attacks against the state than anything else.
 
I mean if the definition of WMDs has been expanded to include IEDs then i guess Bush was right about Iraq after all, eh?
 
Wmd just means a weapon that is powerful enough to cause a lot of destruction or kill many people. Its very vague.
 
Okay, someone please explain this to me.

How the fuck is a pressure cooker bomb categorized as a Weapon of Mass Destruction when it did not include any traces of chemical nor biological nor nuclear material?

I am so completely baffled how this can even remotely be a WMD particularly after all the bruhaha from the Bush admin.

Not that I don't want the fucker to get the death penalty, but it should be done in accordance with the reality of US laws and not trumped up charges.

Oh, and IMHO, all terrorists should be charged as Enemy Combatants. They are performing their actions more as attacks against the state than anything else.

Below is an explanation of how the feds are charging Dzhokhar Tsarnaev with using a WMD while in commission of a felonious act:

Disclaimer: doesn't mean that I necessarily agree or disagree in whether or not a pressure-cooker converted into a high-explosive, remotely controlled-detonated device packed with material meant to more seriously/critically injure, if not permanently maim or kill anyone within its blast radius can legally be classified as a WMD. Then the so-called WMD being intentionally placed within an area containing a large group of people that were tightly packed together between barricades of fencing and the side of a large building.
Also, had the brothers placed the bombs about 5 feet above the ground instead, perhaps the death toll, as well as the amount of injured/critically injured might have been much higher.

The FBI further classifies a WMD as "a destructive device as determined by section 921" — and that section is wide ranging:
(C) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into any destructive device described in subparagraph (A) or (B) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled.
Section A includes bombs, grenades, rocket propellers, missiles, and mines. Section B is pretty vague, too:
(B) any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which the Attorney General finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter.
The always reliable explainers over at Cornell's law blog put that in Lehman's terms (we've italicized the relevant parts):

("Lehman's" terms....lol. Its spelled layman's terms)....>:D
(4) The term “destructive device” means—
(A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas— (i) bomb, (ii) grenade, (iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, (iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (v) mine, or (vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;
(B) any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which the Attorney General finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter; and
(C) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into any destructive device described in subparagraph (A) or (B) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled.
(4) The term “destructive device” means—
(A) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas— (i) bomb, (ii) grenade, (iii) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, (iv) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (v) mine, or (vi) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses;
(B) any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which the Attorney General finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter; and
(C) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into any destructive device described in subparagraph (A) or (B) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled.

Will the Pressure Cooker-as-WMD Case Hold Up Against the Boston Bomber?



Hell...I could even "grandfather" this later legal interpretation and post that I consider the PNAC neocons and the Bush administration as having been the equivalent of "human" WMD(s).

oh, wait...



 
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So basically anything more than a standard firearm is a WMD, what a BS explanation. To me a WMD is anything that can kill hundreds at once. Nuke, Bio, etc.
 
didnt read all of this but im assuming location of the weapon matters. there were a lot of ppl down there with the intent to hurt/kill alot of them.
 
For instance my biceps....those are WMDs

Martin_Riggs__a_Lethal_Weapon_by_jj48rulz.jpg
 
didnt read all of this but im assuming location of the weapon matters. there were a lot of ppl down there with the intent to hurt/kill alot of them.



What matters is if whoever presides over the federal court case will allow the feds to charge him with the use of a WMD.
 
While I greatly appreciate all the legal info explaining how they can charge him this way, the classification is really fucked up IMO.

Just like with Iraq, there is zero need to bring up WMDs here. They can easily convict him based on video evidence from the bombing along with so many other things. Even if he doesn't get the Death Penalty, there should not be any doubt he gets Life Without Parole.

The WMD aspect just opens the door for so many negative things in the International Court of Opinionated Assholes, whether they be terrorists or otherwise haters of the US. EVERYONE internationally equates WMDs to chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons. Maybe you could stretch the definition and include non-nuclear EMPs since they would still have potential to create extreme havoc and destruction of electronics on a massive scale.

It was a damn IED. Period. At no point in time, not one single solitary point, has an IED in Iraq or Afghanistan been classified as a WMD, even ones placed in strategic locations where they killed and wounded more than the numbers in Boston. I'll go even further to say that no car bomb has ever been classified as a WMD, not even the truck bomb in Oklahoma City.

All WMDs are capable of killing thousands in one burst and have a residual killing effect that is able to kill those who come in contact with the area for hours if not longer. These were IEDs. The classification is very important so as to not allow for those who already look for any little thing the US does wrong an opportunity to justify their slanted views. Even though the US media isn't grilling them over this, it will spread like wild fire and make things worse. It actually lends credibility to the crazy father of these bastards.

Worst part is that it is too late to fix. The WMD element has already been applied and they cannot put that genie back in the bottle.
 
Wmd just means a weapon that is powerful enough to cause a lot of destruction or kill many people. Its very vague.

It wasnt vague at all when Bush used the term and every Liberal focused solely on the nuclear variety and ignored any potential chemical and biological types. Now, suddenly it is so vague as to include IEDs.

This is just ridiculous how the government is using the classification. And yes, I would be equally upset if Republicans were trying to use it in this way. The US is going to look really bad internationally because they will be wondering why this WMD classification of IEDs was never before used in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why? Because people from those nations being killed in similar ways do not warrant the same value as Americans or something?

Please tell me I am not the only person seeing the potential problems here.
 
What matters is if whoever presides over the federal court case will allow the feds to charge him with the use of a WMD.

Absolutely agree the judge will have a very important part to play. Hopefully the judge will not allow it. That is possibly the only chance the US has at saving face.
 
If you've followed the coverage of the charges -- despite the utterly wrong assertion by folks like Lindsay Graham -- he is being charged with the broadest and easiest charges to bring and this is simply the early stages. By starting with a broad and easy to prove charge, it becomes easier to add more charges later in a formal indictment.

After all, it's not like busting Al Capone with Tax evasion didn't mean he wasn't guilty of murder, they just went with the charges most likely to move forward .

And yes, a modified something-or-other that is used to inflict terror and death is a "weapon of mass destruction" regardless of how tasty a pot roast grammy might otherwise use it for.
 
It wasnt vague at all when Bush used the term and every Liberal focused solely on the nuclear variety and ignored any potential chemical and biological types. Now, suddenly it is so vague as to include IEDs.

This is just ridiculous how the government is using the classification. And yes, I would be equally upset if Republicans were trying to use it in this way. The US is going to look really bad internationally because they will be wondering why this WMD classification of IEDs was never before used in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why? Because people from those nations being killed in similar ways do not warrant the same value as Americans or something?

Please tell me I am not the only person seeing the potential problems here.

Bush classified his meaning of "WMD" as nukes. He said it over and over again. That's the difference. Nice try though.
 
Bush classified his meaning of "WMD" as nukes. He said it over and over again. That's the difference. Nice try though.

And Bush was an idiot, agreed. Yet through all of the time since then the only thing ever mentioned other than nukes has been chemical and biological.

I'm not trying to defend Bush with the points I am raising, just referencing WMDs in historical context. Why, through all the years of covering the wars and the very high body count, have the reports on IEDs never once labeled them as WMDs? Has a single prosoner convicted of IEDs in those wars been tried for using WMDs?

It just doesn't seem there has been equivalent justice through the years if we have always considered IEDs as WMDs. Not that two specific crimes will result in exactly the same charges brought, but in a general sense this charge would have been applied before now, no? Did OK City not warrant a WMD charge? The WTC '93 bombing? Atlanta Olympic bombing? Seems it should have been used at least once prior to this.
 
And yes, i agree. Stupid to say he used WMD.

Thanks for that, cuz I feel like I'm in some sort of weird dream where things don't make sense nor add up in a reasonable way but yet feel so real.
 
If you've followed the coverage of the charges -- despite the utterly wrong assertion by folks like Lindsay Graham -- he is being charged with the broadest and easiest charges to bring and this is simply the early stages. By starting with a broad and easy to prove charge, it becomes easier to add more charges later in a formal indictment.

After all, it's not like busting Al Capone with Tax evasion didn't mean he wasn't guilty of murder, they just went with the charges most likely to move forward .

And yes, a modified something-or-other that is used to inflict terror and death is a "weapon of mass destruction" regardless of how tasty a pot roast grammy might otherwise use it for.

Oh, I get charging for broadest possible first, but categorizing IEDs as WMDs I have never seen before. Not that I am an expert, but one would think it would have come up in at least one case prior to this. Or did I miss something and prior cases had people charged with WMDs prior to this?
 
Look at the link to the indictment ...and w/o being able to cite it, I feel like I heard in the past couple days that laws were enacted in recent years that allow for broader use for such charges.

I agree with your point of frustration, but figure the "charges" aren't equivalent to what everyone knows he's guilty of.
 
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