Where QB tiers were right, wrong

[everyoneneedsasmil]

ESPN ranked all QBs into tiers last July as an exercise in comparison. At the time, Matthew Stafford was considered a 2nd tier QB (13th overall). Today ESPN released updates to those rankings based on the 2014 season.

Original rankings: http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/stor...ders-rank-32-starting-quarterbacks-tiers#Tier 2

Updated rankings: http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/stor...tony-romo-set-move-qb-tiers-nfl-insider-daily

The article broke down five QBs trending up in the rankings, with six QBs going down. Stafford made the list of QBs moving down the rankings:

Matthew Stafford, Detroit Lions
Stafford ranked near the bottom of the second tier as coaches and evaluators watched to see whether a new coaching staff could maximize his obvious physical gifts. The Lions wound up winning with defense. They said they were happy with the way Stafford reduced turnovers, but is anyone going to feel great about where Stafford is headed?

 

[LKP]

75% of our first downs, 24 TDs, 38 Field goal attempts, helped on 9 other rushing TDs drives all with many drops, poor run game and poor protection. About 6 of the 12 ints really his fault in over 600 attempts. 11 wins. 5 4th Quarter comebacks.

I feel great about where he is headed in year 2 of the system with Oline upgrades.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

He's an adequate game manager to me. I wouldn't say I'm happy about it, but I don't know how the team would get better without a huge stroke of luck.

 

[LKP]

He's an adequate game manager to me. I wouldn't say I'm happy about it, but I don't know how the team would get better without a huge stroke of luck.

A 600 attempt game manager? 75% of our first downs. I don't think you can label that game manager.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

A 600 attempt game manager? 75% of our first downs. I don't think you can label that game manager.

Why not? The team was 22nd in ppg. It doesn't really matter how many times he throws the ball if it doesn't produce points. It doesn't matter what percentage of first downs he converts when the team was so bad at getting first downs in the first place (23rd in converting 3rd downs, 20th in total first downs played).

Game manager doesn't mean he can't throw a lot, it just means that he doesn't get as much out of what he does as an elite player would. I'm not trying to say he's bad and we should cut him. I'm just saying that his actual production (not made up numbers) is average. It's good enough not to derail a strong defense, but not so good as to overcome an average or worse defense.

 

[LKP]

Why not? The team was 22nd in ppg. It doesn't really matter how many times he throws the ball if it doesn't produce points. It doesn't matter what percentage of first downs he converts when the team was so bad at getting first downs in the first place (23rd in converting 3rd downs, 20th in total first downs played).

Game manager doesn't mean he can't throw a lot, it just means that he doesn't get as much out of what he does as an elite player would. I'm not trying to say he's bad and we should cut him. I'm just saying that his actual production (not made up numbers) is average. It's good enough not to derail a strong defense, but not so good as to overcome an average or worse defense.

Lions were 7th in most offensive penalties, 28th in rushing, 28th in rushing first downs and missed 13 field goals. Plus poor protection.

Stafford is the main reason we moved the ball. 75% of the time. He's not a game manager. He's the reason our offense did anything right, and he did it with hindrances such as run game, protection, issues drop %.

 

[inkfreq]

I swear to god, I hate that people on this board continue to make me agree with LKP, even in part.

The Stafford haters want to cherry pick certain numbers to prove he was bad. The Stafford slappies want to cherry pick nearly the same numbers to prove he was awesome.

Neither are right. Stafford was a good QB this season and a lot of the letdown is not on his shoulders, and some of it was.

The haters keep pointing out TEAM statistics to make their point, and it's a terrible argument. "Oh we were 22nd in the league in points"... we had no run game to speak of, 28th overall.

And then you guys make LKP start playing football detective. "Oh well, we had these five unrelated problems that of course meant Stafford was awesome and just being held back by 10 other guys".

But in the end, I find more evidence that he has the capability to be a great QB than a terrible one. And then I have to agree with LKP, in part. And that makes me want to kick puppies.

So knock it off. Quit turning every single thread, like "Suh Suitors" into a Stafford debate. Stick to the thread dammit, and then I can just ignore the Stafford threads.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I swear to god, I hate that people on this board continue to make me agree with LKP, even in part.

The Stafford haters want to cherry pick certain numbers to prove he was bad. The Stafford slappies want to cherry pick nearly the same numbers to prove he was awesome.

Neither are right. Stafford was a good QB this season and a lot of the letdown is not on his shoulders, and some of it was.

The haters keep pointing out TEAM statistics to make their point, and it's a terrible argument. "Oh we were 22nd in the league in points"... we had no run game to speak of, 28th overall.

And then you guys make LKP start playing football detective. "Oh well, we had these five unrelated problems that of course meant Stafford was awesome and just being held back by 10 other guys".

But in the end, I find more evidence that he has the capability to be a great QB than a terrible one. And then I have to agree with LKP, in part. And that makes me want to kick puppies.

So knock it off. Quit turning every single thread, like "Suh Suitors" into a Stafford debate. Stick to the thread dammit, and then I can just ignore the Stafford threads.

See this is where you're wrong, dead wrong - bolded part above. He wasn't close to being good. It's not about cherry picking, I agree. But his overall game, he was poor. One of the worse. You don't see constant rank of 22 or so if he was good.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

Ink, I didn't write the column. I posted it because there is always Stafford discussion here and I bet a number of readers don't have insider.

I also didn't say Stafford sucked. I specifically said he didn't. LKP gets up in arms anytime you don't say Stafford is the greatest QB in the universe. I think he's a solid, middle-of-the-pack game manager. I don't know why LKP hates that term, but to me it's true. Teams have won championships with lesser QBs. Teams have missed the playoffs with better ones. Stafford can't carry the team on his back anywhere, but he's not shooting everyone in the foot either.

 

[tomdalton22]

I swear to god, I hate that people on this board continue to make me agree with LKP, even in part.

The Stafford haters want to cherry pick certain numbers to prove he was bad. The Stafford slappies want to cherry pick nearly the same numbers to prove he was awesome.

Neither are right. Stafford was a good QB this season and a lot of the letdown is not on his shoulders, and some of it was.

The haters keep pointing out TEAM statistics to make their point, and it's a terrible argument. "Oh we were 22nd in the league in points"... we had no run game to speak of, 28th overall.

And then you guys make LKP start playing football detective. "Oh well, we had these five unrelated problems that of course meant Stafford was awesome and just being held back by 10 other guys".

But in the end, I find more evidence that he has the capability to be a great QB than a terrible one. And then I have to agree with LKP, in part. And that makes me want to kick puppies.

So knock it off. Quit turning every single thread, like "Suh Suitors" into a Stafford debate. Stick to the thread dammit, and then I can just ignore the Stafford threads.

There are no stats that suggest that he is awesome...none!

 

[mhughes0021]

75% of our first downs, 24 TDs, 38 Field goal attempts, helped on 9 other rushing TDs drives all with many drops, poor run game and poor protection. About 6 of the 12 ints really his fault in over 600 attempts. 11 wins. 5 4th Quarter comebacks.

I feel great about where he is headed in year 2 of the system with Oline upgrades.

Poor run game cause stafford is too fucking dumb to check out of a pass play vs a 5 man box or check into a pass play vs a 8 man box.

 

[tonyballs]

Poor run game cause stafford is too fucking dumb to check out of a pass play vs a 5 man box or check into a pass play vs a 8 man box.

Pfffffttttttt ....bahahahahahahahaaaaaa!!

 

[mhughes0021]

Pfffffttttttt ....bahahahahahahahaaaaaa!!

you have to admit....you HAVE to! it was uncanny this year that their would be a stacked box on an early down and id be thinking....ok you got calvin 1 v 1 on the outside what can you do? and we hand it off.

Or the opposite would happen. Spread em out get a great match up vs a 5-6 man box with a 220 lb rb in the back field. id be thinking "run! run!" and Stafford happy feets an incomplete pass.

Lombardi, Stafford, Caldwell, fucking cooter for all I care.....SOMEONE has to be smart enough to have the ability to audible. We were horrible all year at reacting to what the defense was giving us. Stafford is supposed to be this smart football guy....yet it seems we have never given him the reigns to make those types of calls. Either hes not being a leader and stepping up demanding that type of autonomy or the coaches don't trust him to do it. Not really sure whats going on there....but the fact remains youll have a poor running game when your oline blows yet you continue to try to pound the ball vs 7-8 man fronts.

 

[LKP]

Stafford audibles just fine. It's the blocking in the run game. Injuries didn't help.

 

[biggunsbob]

We Have Eric Ebron .....The difference maker.... Next year is his year!!!!!!!!!!

# 12 Odell Beckham, Jr.† (wr)
# 13 Aaron Donald† (DT)
# 16 Zack Martin† (G)
# 17 C. J. Mosley† (LB)

† (pro Bowler)

I would take any of these guys over EE Espically the two offensive players...
Because remember we were in win mode now. (In 2014)..
Hopefully EE will become a PB next year...
Dare to dream...

Man If we had had Beckham Jr... Or even the guard...
Our offense would have been a tad stronger last year then with EE..

 

[tonyballs]

We Have Eric Ebron .....The difference maker.... Next year is his year!!!!!!!!!!

# 12 Odell Beckham, Jr.† (wr)
# 13 Aaron Donald† (DT)
# 16 Zack Martin† (G)
# 17 C. J. Mosley† (LB)

† (pro Bowler)

I would take any of these guys over EE Espically the two offensive players...
Because remember we were in win mode now. (In 2014)..
Hopefully EE will become a PB next year...
Dare to dream...

Man If we had had Beckham Jr... Or even the guard...
Our offense would have been a tad stronger last year then with EE..

Next time bust out your crystal ball and lend it to the Lions front office then. Problem solved .......right?

 

[tonyballs]

you have to admit....you HAVE to! it was uncanny this year that their would be a stacked box on an early down and id be thinking....ok you got calvin 1 v 1 on the outside what can you do? and we hand it off.

Or the opposite would happen. Spread em out get a great match up vs a 5-6 man box with a 220 lb rb in the back field. id be thinking "run! run!" and Stafford happy feets an incomplete pass.

Lombardi, Stafford, Caldwell, fucking cooter for all I care.....SOMEONE has to be smart enough to have the ability to audible. We were horrible all year at reacting to what the defense was giving us. Stafford is supposed to be this smart football guy....yet it seems we have never given him the reigns to make those types of calls. Either hes not being a leader and stepping up demanding that type of autonomy or the coaches don't trust him to do it. Not really sure whats going on there....but the fact remains youll have a poor running game when your oline blows yet you continue to try to pound the ball vs 7-8 man fronts.

What's funny is that you just think it's easy as pie to run an NFL offense. And just because YOU see a potential pass or run play open from your fucking couch is comical to say the least. You win!!! lol

 

[cheeno]

Next time bust out your crystal ball and lend it to the Lions front office then. Problem solved .......right?

Isn't it the front offices job to have their own crystal ball?

 

[dubbsco]

Or just don't draft a luxury pick that you don't need in the 1st round. They could have sneezed all over themselves and still ended up with a pro bowler with how good that first round draft class shook out, but only the Lions would screw it up.

 

[LKP]

What's funny is that you just think it's easy as pie to run an NFL offense. And just because YOU see a potential pass or run play open from your fucking couch is comical to say the least. You win!!! lol

LOL. It's probably 3rd and 9 and hughes is yelling at them to run the ball.