You're the GM, make one realistic move...

[mjsb2]

Suggest something then. That's the point of this topic.

I don't really look into stuff like this too much, I much prefer to just criticize everyone else's trade proposals.

I do think that one of Porcello/Scherzer will be traded this offseason for a corner OFer/2B.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Yes, it's ONE move, but why would you use that move to address an area that is not a problem?

Bullpen, corner OF, 2B, DH....all these problems would come before a starting pitcher.


And Scherzer makes peanuts, Beckett makes millions, so you would add a good deal to the payroll for similar results.

Horrible trade/idea for a trade.

I think the rotation is alright, but I think it could be better. What doesn't make sense to you about upgrading anywhere you can?

I actually drastically prefer the idea of trading for a package of Hamels and Victorino over Beckett, but everybody is fixated on the idea of Beckett. If we could swing a trade for Hamels and Victorino, that boosts the rotation with a stud lefty, upgrades a corner OF spot, and could make Scherzer, Boesch/Young expendable for additional moves too.

DH will be fixed when VMart returns in August. No sense in trading for a DH when it is locked up for the foreseeable future.

Bullpen is another area that's pretty easy to fix later in the year. Teams dump expensive relievers when they are out of the race, and if we're buyers, we should be able to add depth or upgrade then. That said, I've still got confidence in Valverde/Benoit/Dotel/Coke despite how bad they've looked lately.

 

[Thumb]

In his current stats Beckett is not an upgrade, except in payroll, which is actually a downgrade.

So wait 3/4 of a year to get production out of the DH?

Also Vmart is only signed through 2013, that's not the foreseeable future.

 

[mjsb2]

1. V-Mart coming back in September is a possibility, not a guarantee.
2. I have no confidence in Valverde...despite not blowing a save last year, he wasn't a good pitcher last year, and he's not a good pitcher this year. His stuff isn't there anymore.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

In his current stats Beckett is not an upgrade, except in payroll, which is actually a downgrade.

So wait 3/4 of a year to get production out of the DH?

Also Vmart is only signed through 2013, that's not the foreseeable future.

Dude, it's the second week in May. Based on your sample size and reasoning, you'd take Smyly over Beckett, Lincecum, Halladay, etc. Look at Beckett's stats from last season and his entire career. He's healthy and young. He just happens to play for a shit head manager on a dysfunctional team and he needs a change of scenery. It happens sometimes.

As far as DH goes, don't you think odds are one or both of Fielder (signed through 2020) and Cabrera (signed through 2015) becomes the DH when Victor is gone? That's the foreseeable future.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

1. V-Mart coming back in September is a possibility, not a guarantee.
2. I have no confidence in Valverde...despite not blowing a save last year, he wasn't a good pitcher last year, and he's not a good pitcher this year. His stuff isn't there anymore.

1. It's a very good chance from everything I've read. Regardless, he'll be back next season, so I don't see us trading for a DH. If anything, I think we'd just see more days out of the field for Prince and Miggy if/when Young is gone.

2. 49/49 in saves, 2.24ERA, 1.18WHIP, 2011 Rolaids Relief Man Award. Yeah, he sure wasn't a good pitcher last year, was he? LOL!

 

[Thumb]

Okay let me explain it this way.

Beckett is a type 1-b pitcher, not an Ace anymore, but still going to cost huge.

You think Boston is going to just give him away for nothing? no we would have to send the majority of our good prospects, and then what?

The cupboard is bare because you made a trade for a position WE DONT NEED HELP AT.

On top of that he's off to a horrible start, and has a high salary.

So as a GM you just cost your boss several million in payroll, and several prospects, and even if you get good performance out of Beckett, it does not help much because starting pitching is not a huge issue.

We need help now, not in August/September, and not in the next few years, but good luck making another trade with nobody left to offer.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I want a 2B.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Okay let me explain it this way.

Beckett is a type 1-b pitcher, not an Ace anymore, but still going to cost huge.

You think Boston is going to just give him away for nothing? no we would have to send the majority of our good prospects, and then what?

The cupboard is bare because you made a trade for a position WE DONT NEED HELP AT.

On top of that he's off to a horrible start, and has a high salary.

So as a GM you just cost your boss several million in payroll, and several prospects, and even if you get good performance out of Beckett, it does not help much because starting pitching is not a huge issue.

We need help now, not in August/September, and not in the next few years, but good luck making another trade with nobody left to offer.

Apparently you don't read... I'm WAY more interested in Hamels and Victorino than Beckett, but since you are fixated on Beckett, let me break it down for you.

Beckett is much better than Scherzer, Porcello or Smyly regardless of how much weight you still want to give to his six 2012 starts or how much you want to ignore the rest of his career stats. Even if he's a 1b-type starter as you say, making him the second 1b-type starter behind the best pitcher in baseball makes your rotation top notch. You keep the best two of Scherzer/Porcello/Smyly and the other is trade bait. An upgrade is an upgrade is an upgrade, regardless of where it is on the field. If you add a third starter, you essentially improve your 4th and 5th starters at the same time when the worst pitcher is shuffled out of the rotation and the others and slid back a spot. You also reduce the need for offense when you bring in better pitching.

Turner couldn't make the team out of spring training and Castellanos happens to play the same position as Miguel Cabrera. Beyond that, the owner of the team is quite old and wants a World Series ring now. If you think he gives two shits about waiting another couple years to see if those two pan out, you're a fool. The elderly ring chasing owner also happens to have quite a bit of money that he's shown he's willing to spend in hopes of getting said ring. Beckett makes $15.75mil/yr through 2014. Ilitch has paid more to Guillen and Maggs to produce much less, and has eaten millions to let players like Sheffield, Willis, Inge, and others play elsewhere. If DD came to him and said Beckett was the guy he thought would put them over the top, you better believe the wallet would be opened up.

Your argument about having nothing else to trade makes no sense either. If you add a pitcher, you now have a pitcher you can trade. If you add a pitcher and an outfielder, you have a pitcher and outfielder you can trade. You don't think Scherzer, Porcello, or Boesch wouldn't draw some interest? We aren't just restricted to trading prospects for starters like you seem to think.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

I want a 2B.

Me too, but who? What's out there that makes sense?

 

[Mitchrapp]

Me too, but who? What's out there that makes sense?

Anyone.

 

[Thumb]

Me too, but who? What's out there that makes sense?

You mean that makes sense at all, or just that makes as much sense as Beckett(none)?

 

[kingofdetroit57]

You mean that makes sense at all, or just that makes as much sense as Beckett(none)?

We're 4 pages deep in this thread and you've brought nothing to the discussion but criticism that I've shot holes in at every turn.

Please shine your golden lamp of knowledge on us all and suggest a trade.

 

[Thumb]

You haven't shot holes in anything, not for lack of trying though.

Beckett would be a bad trade, sorry you can't see that.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

You haven't shot holes in anything, not for lack of trying though.

Beckett would be a bad trade, sorry you can't see that.

Umm, sorry you can't see that I've shot holes in just about every criticism you've raised.

We need a DH... we've got VMart coming back in August/September, signed next year, and have Miggy through 2015 and Prince through 2020. Check.

Beckett has an ERA of 6... his ERA of 6 is in six starts on a dysfunctional team with an idiot manager and his career stats are better than any pitcher we've got not named Verlander or Fister. Check.

Beckett is expensive... he makes $15.75mil/yr for this year and the next two, we've got a multi-billionaire owner who is in his 80s, wants a ring worse than anything else, and just dropped over $200mil on a player that none of us thought was possible or reasonable as a fit. Check.

We won't have anybody left to trade... you add a player to replace one and the one getting replaced is trade bait. Check.


Did I miss any of these solid and irrefutable facts of life you've presented?

 

[Thumb]

Beckett's ERA has nothing to do with his manager or his team. uncheck.

Ilitch wants to win NOW, not next year, not in 2 years, did you see him at the Prince signing press conference, he can barely form complete sentences. So right NOW we have a hole at DH. uncheck.

Also he's rich but he's probably near the limit of what he's willing to spend, notice we didn't sign anyone after Prince? uncheck

The whole we add a player to replace one...makes no sense. uncheck

the idea that Josh Beckett is better than Scherzer/Porcello, career wise....yes. Now? maybe.

For the sake of argument let's say he is, but how much better (or how many more wins) do you get over Scherzer/Porcello? it's not going to be as many as you think.

But to get him you have to give up top prospects, even if you bundle one of Scherzer/Porcello you still probably lose Turner, and Castellanos in that trade, or Boston just says GFY.

So in the end it's a bad trade idea, sorry....but I'm not the only one who thinks this.

You fix what is broken before you tinker with what works, SP's are okay, the other problems are not.


You want me to make a hypothetical, well I can't it's too early to know what might be available and for what costs, but SP is the last place I (or DD or mostly anyone) would look.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Beckett's ERA has nothing to do with his manager or his team. uncheck.

Ilitch wants to win NOW, not next year, not in 2 years, did you see him at the Prince signing press conference, he can barely form complete sentences. So right NOW we have a hole at DH. uncheck.

Also he's rich but he's probably near the limit of what he's willing to spend, notice we didn't sign anyone after Prince? uncheck

The whole we add a player to replace one...makes no sense. uncheck

the idea that Josh Beckett is better than Scherzer/Porcello, career wise....yes. Now? maybe.

For the sake of argument let's say he is, but how much better (or how many more wins) do you get over Scherzer/Porcello? it's not going to be as many as you think.

But to get him you have to give up top prospects, even if you bundle one of Scherzer/Porcello you still probably lose Turner, and Castellanos in that trade, or Boston just says GFY.

So in the end it's a bad trade idea, sorry....but I'm not the only one who thinks this.

You fix what is broken before you tinker with what works, SP's are okay, the other problems are not.


You want me to make a hypothetical, well I can't it's too early to know what might be available and for what costs, but SP is the last place I (or DD or mostly anyone) would look.

Again, I'll repeat, I greatly favor the idea of Hamels and Victorino over Beckett. It is a bigger improvement for a similar cost, IMHO. Yet, you want to fixate on the less desirable option I posted and have brought nothing new to the discussion. I'll entertain myself and reply again though.

Beckett's performance has everything to do with his attitude. He clearly doesn't care too much right now. That has a lot to do with the manager and team. Valentine is clashing with lots of guys on that team and their record and attitudes and clearly affected. Beckett basically gave the team a big middle finger the other day when he said his side was too sore to pitch, but went golfing and made no apologies for it other than to say it was one of his very few days off during the year. Baseball is a very mental game. Beckett has loads of ability, but his head isn't in it right now. He needs a change of scenery and he'll bounce back.

How do you not see that adding to the rotation is an instant upgrade and is no different than adding elsewhere? It's the Moneyball theory of adding wins. If the WAR is the same, you can add an average corner OF, an average 2B, and an average BP guy and spend $16mil in the process and get the same result as adding a $16mil pitcher or a $16mil hitter. It makes no difference where the wins come from in the end. An improvement is an improvement is an improvement. I've asked multiple times to multiple posters and not one suggestion has been posed for a corner OF, DH, BP or 2B that can add similar impact.

Mr. I has said time and time again that he's got no set salary cap, he loves big names, and he wants to win now. He's shown that in moves he's okayed, yet you sit here and talk about not trading prospects and emptying the cupboard. He couldn't give two shits about what happens to Turner and Castellanos a couple seasons from now. For all he knows, he could be dead by then. He's said as much in interviews lately. He sees the end is near even though he still feels good. He's realistic about it. If he thinks a move or two will put them over the top, he'll write the check and take the shot.

You still don't seem to understand the concept of trading for players and trading the replaced players away after that. Let's say, for shits and giggles, that you trade Turner and Castellanos straight up for Beckett. Now, you can turn around and trade one of Scherzer, Porcello or Smyly away for a 2B, BP help, or anything else you think you may need. Your rotation is set through 2014 with Beckett, and you focus on your next hot prospects to draft, build and hype. That's how it works when you are a spender trying to win. When you are a loser that's rebuilding, you trade away the pricey talent, collect Turner and Castellanos and hope to compete in 2015. When you try to do both simultaneously, you typically end up as a mediocre team.

There is still no way we add a DH unless that guy can play another position, is unsigned beyond this year, or can get easily flipped or cut when Victor is back. The best thing we can do if we want to add offense is find a 2B or corner OF (but who???) and make the DH spot a rotation of Prince, Miggy, and Alex to keep them healthy, or occasionally to another slumping starter to get them going.

 

[mjsb2]

That's how it works when you are a spender trying to win. When you are a loser that's rebuilding, you trade away the pricey talent, collect Turner and Castellanos and hope to compete in 2015. When you try to do both simultaneously, you typically end up as a mediocre team.

Just some clarification on this statement...are you saying that when a team builds to win now, is simultaneously building its future down the road, that they end up as mediocre? That if you're good now you go for it, and if you're not you trade away your valuable assets to build for the future, that there is no happy medium of going for it now, while also building for the future?

 

[biggunsbob]

I would much prefer to go after Hamels and Victorino over Becket... While Josh's career numbers are great there is something wrong between the ears at the moment.. But who knows maybe a change in scenery is what he needs. we need a 2nd basemen as a top priority right now and a corner outfielder... We also should bolster the bullpen before we add 2 starting pitchers. Maybe if the Phillies fall out of the race we can get them to throw polonco in with any deal along with Hamels just till the end of the year.... Doubtful but maybe we could pry Walker away from Pittsburgh. Looks like Marco Scutaro is having trouble adapting to the NL.. Maybe if the Rockies drop way off they would deal him to us.. Just slim pickens for second basemen out there..

 

[mjsb2]

Why would the Phillies trade even Hamels?

They're expecting to compete for the WS this year.