Zack Zenner on IR with cracked ribs and collapsed Lung...

[Mitchrapp]

So give some examples of Zenner missing his holes and reads or not breaking tackles.

Bell played early. That will take carries away. Plus AA and Riddick do get carries too. Plus a pass heavy with the Oline problems and injuries.

Good RB make their own holes. And I'm sure you were an AA cheerleader early on.. You probably also thought Bell was going to be here for 10 years.

Zenner has done nothing to tell me he's going to be a good NFL player. Does he have some moves, just about all NFL players do. The big question should be what do you see in him?

 

[LKP]

Zenner breaks tackles and hits the hole well.

Rbs don't make their own holes.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Zenner breaks tackles and hits the hole well.

Rbs don't make their own holes.

10 yards per game, score. He doesn't even accidentally run well.

 

[LKP]

10 yards per game, score. He doesn't even accidentally run well.

he does run well if you watch him. the oline didn't block well or other RBs got carries.

 

[Mitchrapp]

he does run well if you watch him. the oline didn't block well or other RBs got carries.

Yeah sure. 3.5 not well. Now if we 10 of him getting their 10 yards a game they'd be on to something.

 

[tbone413]

I actually agree with LKP - he has been solid rushing the ball this year...he is never going to be a guy who hits a hole and breaks a 50+ yard run, but he will almost never lose you yards either (so it seems). Granted hes only ran the ball a handful of times this year, but I definitely think hes capable of being a serviceable backup RB in this league....which is a major score considering he was undrafted.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I actually agree with LKP - he has been solid rushing the ball this year...he is never going to be a guy who hits a hole and breaks a 50+ yard run, but he will almost never lose you yards either (so it seems). Granted hes only ran the ball a handful of times this year, but I definitely think hes capable of being a serviceable backup RB in this league....which is a major score considering he was undrafted.

Hey if 3.5 YPC and 10 yards per game gets your blood flowing who am I to say you're wrong.

 

[zyxt9]

I expect him to get more than 71 yards in 6 games. I expect more than 3.5 YPC. Blame the OL all you want, it's not just them..

damn, you got me....71 yards in 6 games...he sucks. let's break that down:

Op A Yds Avg
SD 2 6 3.0
Min 0 0 0.0
Den 0 0 0.0
Sea 2 9 4.5
Ari 10 30 3.0
Chi 3 15 5.0

The problem has far more to do with the OC and the OL than the player. ZZ has actually produced better than AA and Bell, which is pretty impressive for a UDFA. Still, the biggest issue for every one of the RBs has been the OL and OC. The plays are not designed well and the OL is terrible at blocking.

ZZ was actually averaging the same or better than Riddick in the Chi game. Take away his longest gain of 7 yards and he was averaging 4.0, which is what Riddick averaged on his 7 carries with a long of 9. So to be even more fair, take away Riddick's long of 9 and he averaged 3.2.

I'm not sure what you are expecting of ZZ or any of the RBs. All of them are capable of getting yards provided the OC has a good scheme in place and the OL blocks well enough. That's true for pretty much every single RB in NFL history with the exceptions of Barry and Walter.

So it seems unless they are "the best ever", they are worthless trash who should be cut and the Lions are better off playing without a RB at all. Even AP and Emmitt Smith would produce similar numbers with the Lions because those guys need(ed) an OL that can open a hole and an OC who actually understands how to put in a quality scheme, not to mention they are the sole RB instead of a RB by committee system.

I absolutely do not understand the criticism you guys have of ZZ. The guy has shown he is capable of being an NFL RB. Will he be the best ever? No! Not one person has said that. But you don't need an RB to be the best ever to win a Super Bowl, you need an OL that can block and a quality coaching staff, but a solid RB is sufficient for winning and ZZ is solid.

 

[Mitchrapp]

damn, you got me....71 yards in 6 games...he sucks. let's break that down:

Op A Yds Avg
SD 2 6 3.0
Min 0 0 0.0
Den 0 0 0.0
Sea 2 9 4.5
Ari 10 30 3.0
Chi 3 15 5.0

The problem has far more to do with the OC and the OL than the player. ZZ has actually produced better than AA and Bell, which is pretty impressive for a UDFA. Still, the biggest issue for every one of the RBs has been the OL and OC. The plays are not designed well and the OL is terrible at blocking.

ZZ was actually averaging the same or better than Riddick in the Chi game. Take away his longest gain of 7 yards and he was averaging 4.0, which is what Riddick averaged on his 7 carries with a long of 9. So to be even more fair, take away Riddick's long of 9 and he averaged 3.2.

I'm not sure what you are expecting of ZZ or any of the RBs. All of them are capable of getting yards provided the OC has a good scheme in place and the OL blocks well enough. That's true for pretty much every single RB in NFL history with the exceptions of Barry and Walter.

So it seems unless they are "the best ever", they are worthless trash who should be cut and the Lions are better off playing without a RB at all. Even AP and Emmitt Smith would produce similar numbers with the Lions because those guys need(ed) an OL that can open a hole and an OC who actually understands how to put in a quality scheme, not to mention they are the sole RB instead of a RB by committee system.

I absolutely do not understand the criticism you guys have of ZZ. The guy has shown he is capable of being an NFL RB. Will he be the best ever? No! Not one person has said that. But you don't need an RB to be the best ever to win a Super Bowl, you need an OL that can block and a quality coaching staff, but a solid RB is sufficient for winning and ZZ is solid.

He's shown that he can get a 10 yards a game. That's not hating, that's facts. OL, other RB's or whatnot. His production is 10 yards a game. I don't have a problem you saying he has potential. But so far he hasn't done a whole lot.

 

[zyxt9]

And before pointing out the low 3.0 average in the Ari game, he had the highest YPC of the Lions RBs in that game.

 

[Mitchrapp]

And I never said, cut or trash.

 

[zyxt9]

He's shown that he can get a 10 yards a game. That's not hating, that's facts. OL, other RB's or whatnot. His production is 10 yards a game. I don't have a problem you saying he has potential. But so far he hasn't done a whole lot.

LOOK AT THE # OF CARRIES, not many RBs are going to get more than 10 YPG when they only get 2 carries. The RB is only able to get yards when he is given the ball...that's on the OC, not the RB.

 

[Mitchrapp]

And before pointing out the low 3.0 average in the Ari game, he had the highest YPC of the Lions RBs in that game.

Woo..

Guess who leads the team in YPC after 6 games, Matt Stafford. Our slow footed, slow witted QB.

 

[Mitchrapp]

LOOK AT THE # OF CARRIES, not many RBs are going to get more than 10 YPG when they only get 2 carries. The RB is only able to get yards when he is given the ball...that's on the OC, not the RB.

But he doesn't get 10 yards with 2 carries. He's averaging 3.5.

 

[zyxt9]

The Lions are a pass 1st O with a committee of RBs...how many NFL RBs crack 100 yards per game when they play for a pass 1st O and have RB by committee?

Zero.

If ZZ played for a run first team and was the sole RB, he'd crack 100 YPG.

 

[Mitchrapp]

The Lions are a pass 1st O with a committee of RBs...how many NFL RBs crack 100 yards per game when they play for a pass 1st O and have RB by committee?

Zero.

If ZZ played for a run first team and was the sole RB, he'd crack 100 YPG.

Based on what? On his 3.5? How many carries would that be and how many teams give there main guy that many, few.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Even Lynch only had 17 carries this week..

 

[Mitchrapp]

I know you're probably looking but 26. Most rushes this past week, AP. If I'm not mistaken 26 times 3.5 is less than a 100.

 

[zyxt9]

But he doesn't get 10 yards with 2 carries. He's averaging 3.5.

Who does????? That was my point! What NFL RB gets 2 carries per game and averages 10 YPG????? NONE!!!!! Not on the Lions, not on any team.

You are bitching because the RBs don't get enough YPG...but that is because they are a pass first team! Not 1 NFL RB in a pass first O with RB by committee averages 100 YPG...what part of that do you not get?

Take away the Ari game and he averaged 4.3 ypc. The Ari game had atrocious play calling and the OL was horrific in blocking. At 3.0, he still led the Lions RBs in YPC, which means none of the RBs were effective due to OL and play calling.

4.3 ypc is absolutely acceptable for an NFL back. as for the Ari game, even the all time greats had games where they averaged 3.0 per carry...it happens to every NFL RB.

the SD game was his first legit game, he got 2 carries and averaged 3.0 ypg. that's respectable for a UDFA. he continued to improve and after Bell was injured again, he came in and did better than Bell by a long shot.

 

[zyxt9]

I know you're probably looking but 26. Most rushes this past week, AP. If I'm not mistaken 26 times 3.5 is less than a 100.

26 times 4.3 is over 100. all depends on the game. even AP doesn't get 100 yards every game! GASP!!!