2020 Dem candidate

[Michchamp]

Does he have antiquated wrongheaded ideas about fossil fuels and environmental regulation? Will he put some coal lobbyist in charge of the EPA?

He has no ideas about fossil fuel and environmental regulation... he just sees the big numbers on the checks they write to his PAC.

He won't be as obvious about as Trump. he'll require them to put an additional "cutout" in power at the EPA, figuring if anyone wants to follow the money, they'll have to jump through one more hoop to track it, and that will be enough to quiet most dissent.

 

[tinselwolverine]

They are good policies and they will work.

They worked from 1933 -1980, and some of them - that the billionaires haven't managed to gut and loot - are still working to this day.

The policies didn?t really go away that much as the substantially higher marginal tax rates that paid for them that did.

People that loved the ?transformation? (per Barak Obama) view it as having been economically stimulative; people who loved it ?not so much? describe it as having gutted vital social services.

Drinking buddies ?Dutch? Reagan and ?Tip? O?Neal would meet on Friday evenings in the White House (Reagan would call O?Neill and ask him ?is it 6 o?clock yet Tip??) and hammer out deals that would expand spending and cut revenues at the same time.

Maybe the moral of the story is ?don?t let two drunk old Irish guys who are going to be dead long before you are manage your finances.?

 

[tinselwolverine]

He has no ideas about fossil fuel and environmental regulation... he just sees the big numbers on the checks they write to his PAC.

What PAC is that?

I just heard Andrew Malcolm, who has been covering politics as a journalist going on six decades, saying that Biden?s problem in national politics has always been fundraising.

I think Sanders is the number one Democratic fundraiser to this point.

 

[Spartanmack]

They are good policies and they will work.

They worked from 1933 -1980, and some of them - that the billionaires haven't managed to gut and loot - are still working to this day.

no, they won't work and no they didn't work from 1933 to 1980 and expanding them won't make them work now.

 

[tigermud]

Lmao
Your fucking joking right . Talk about Hate. They GOP and Trumo know all about using Hate to win elections. Top 1% is doing just fine after dingbat was elected. Nice tax cut for them that they didn?t need. Gop the party of hate that keeps on given to the rich !

Let me know when there is a non asshole version of trump to support. I don't see any in the Dem party.

 

[Michchamp]

The policies didn?t really go away that much as the substantially higher marginal tax rates that paid for them that did.

People that loved the ?transformation? (per Barak Obama) view it as having been economically stimulative; people who loved it ?not so much? describe it as having gutted vital social services.

...?

that's the "neo-liberal" playbook (that both parties support of course): defund, or underfund government programs, then publicize how bad they are, and should be ended, then hand the program to privateers to suck whatever they can out of it before leaving it for dead.

what a well-functioning society... shining beacon of democracy

As far as Obama's stimulus, Larry Summers intentionally sabotaged it, but Obama himself probably didn't really want better social programs; it's not who he was. and Fuck him for selling us on this bullshit hope and change nonsense.

 

[tinselwolverine]

no, they won't work and no they didn't work from 1933 to 1980 and expanding them won't make them work now.

Besides the lowering of the top marginal tax rates that began during the 1980s and has continued since, what has really changed?

Now we just borrow from foreign entities to pay for the programs.

As far as public assistance and social services, we are already 3/4 of the way to being Scandinavia.

 

[Spartanmack]

Besides the lowering of the top marginal tax rates that began during the 1980s and has continued since, what has really changed?

Now we just borrow from foreign entities to pay for the programs.

As far as public assistance and social services, we are already 3/4 of the way to being Scandinavia.

yep and it will only get worse faster with Bernie. Social programs have continuously been expanded since the 30s to the point where during the Obama administration where 50% of American households are receiving some kind of government assistance. And 44% of Americans pay no federal income tax. So basically we've reached the point of no return with roughly half the population with no incentive to vote to reduce entitlement programs.

 

[Michchamp]

yep and it will only get worse faster with Bernie. Social programs have continuously been expanded since the 30s to the point where during the Obama administration where 50% of American households are receiving some kind of government assistance. And 44% of Americans pay no federal income tax. So basically we've reached the point of no return with roughly half the population with no incentive to vote to reduce entitlement programs.

EVEN assuming your numbers are true, and without proof, I'm not, they hardly tell the whole picture...

More people receive government aid? Maybe more people need government aid because all the decent manufacturing jobs were shipped overseas? maybe because big business and government engaged in targeted attacks to gut the workers' unions - for decades now - that protected wages and workplace rights?

Who doesn't receive government? this is so stupid... private individuals drive on public roads, use the police, visit hospitals subsidized by teh government. they litigate in publicly funded courts.

And even if people pay no federal taxes, they pay plenty of other taxes: sales taxes, gas taxes, property taxes, tobacco/alcohol, etc. you think all this money isn't part of the same pot in some way shape or form?

so people don't earn enough to pay federal taxes.... they're still getting hit for taxes in everything else they do.

 

[Spartanmack]

EVEN assuming your numbers are true, and without proof, I'm not, they hardly tell the whole picture...

More people receive government aid? Maybe more people need government aid because all the decent manufacturing jobs were shipped overseas? maybe because big business and government engaged in targeted attacks to gut the workers' unions - for decades now - that protected wages and workplace rights?

Who doesn't receive government? this is so stupid... private individuals drive on public roads, use the police, visit hospitals subsidized by teh government. they litigate in publicly funded courts.

And even if people pay no federal taxes, they pay plenty of other taxes: sales taxes, gas taxes, property taxes, tobacco/alcohol, etc. you think all this money isn't part of the same pot in some way shape or form?

so people don't earn enough to pay federal taxes.... they're still getting hit for taxes in everything else they do.

whats dumb is this response (and you). the number in 2011 was 49.2% of US households receive some type of government assistance and it doesnt count everyone who drove on public roads or dialed 911. That could be the dumbest thing you've ever said trying to make a point. It highlights the futility of arguing with you which is why most of the time now I just mock and heap scorn on you and your equally stupid pal vic.

also dummy, the point about the large number of people who pay no federal taxes is that those people wont vote for candidates who push policies we need - like scrapping the corp tax, instituting consumption taxes and a flat income tax. same with entitlements - now that half the country is subsidized by the other half they're not going to vote for what the country needs and give up their free stuff. they are all bought and paid for useful idiots and your boy Bernie wants to give them all a huge raise - and you think its a great idea because you're dumb.

 

[Michchamp]

Name calling is of course, all you got.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Taxes on the rich and social programs for the poor are out of control. There's way too much wealth redistribution. That's why wealth inequality is at an historic low right now. Right?

 

[tinselwolverine]

Taxes on the rich and social programs for the poor are out of control. There's way too much wealth redistribution. That's why wealth inequality is at an historic low right now. Right?

I?ve been looking it up and it seems as if the top marginal tax rates in the Scandinavian Utopias is about 50%, about the same as it was here during the majority of the Reagan Utopian years.

Different reports tell different stories about public health care rationing and the percentage of private health care acquired to avoid rationing, but no report claims it?s non-existent.

I stand by my claim that we?re already 3/4 of the way there.

 

[jwlcosu]

Name calling is of course, all you got.

Rich. Truly rich.

 

[Michchamp]

Rich. Truly rich.

LOL, yes please share with me what your enlightened response would be to another grown man who calls you "dummy" over and over...

Then go kill yourself.

 

[Spartanmack]

Name calling is of course, all you got.

Maybe if you ignore 90% of what I've said then misinterpret the rest as "name calling." I haven't called anyone any names - that's your thing. Telling you you're dumb isn't name calling, it's a statement of fact.

 

[Spartanmack]

Taxes on the rich and social programs for the poor are out of control. There's way too much wealth redistribution. That's why wealth inequality is at an historic low right now. Right?

taxes on everyone and social programs are out of control. Wealth redistribution is not the function of government nor is it a significant problem in America today and fixing this problem that doesn't exist won't fix the real problems we do have.

 

[tigermud]

LOL, yes please share with me what your enlightened response would be to another grown man who calls you "dummy" over and over...

Then go kill yourself.

That’s probably going to be labeled as hate speech in the future, telling people to go kill themselves and whatnot

 

[tigermud]

Biden’s got himself a legit Ukrainian scandal he’s not going to get the nomination

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-h...ukrainian-nightmare-a-closed-probe-is-revived

 

[Gulo Blue]

Biden?s got himself a legit Ukrainian scandal he?s not going to get the nomination

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-h...ukrainian-nightmare-a-closed-probe-is-revived

Dirty