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2020 Dem candidate

tinselwolverine said:
Hasn?t it been pretty much determined that the hacker was Julian Assange?
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I thought it was the Russians who fed it to Assange. I thought Assange wasn't a hacker, or at least not anymore - isn't WikiLeaks a sort of repository for data pilfered by hackers or disgruntled employees like Chelsea nee Bradley Manning? Either way, I don't think much was known at the time so she was just using the prevailing narrative to deflect responsibility.
 
The DNC hack was actually a leak, I thought.

Here's the wikipedia summary. The intelligence community - who would never lie to the American public - said it was stolen by Russian hackers and then leaked to wikileaks.

Assange himself said Russia was not involved at all.

The sketchiest part, I thought, was that the DNC refused any help and there was a lot of stonewalling. they never actually gave the FBI access to their servers, and eventually only gave the FBI access after first giving another third party (a for profit cyber security company) access, who only provided the FBI copies, and the FBI was okay with that. ALL of which is extremely unusual, and sketchy as hell for this sort of thing. If the FBI wants something, they get a warrant and go get it.

then GlennBeck or Alex Jones or one of those clowns started pushing the (evidence free) theory that a young Hillary staffer killed in a mugging in DC was responsible and Hillary put a hit out on him.

Her campaign could commit murder and cover it up from the FBI and police, but couldn't beat Donald Trump in the general election...
 
The idea is that Russia wanted Trump as president because Putin could control him

none of this really adds up though. I don't see what pro-Russia actions Trump has taken, and there have been plenty of Anti-Russian actions under Trump regardless.

Trump's failed deals in Russia were not any sketchier or sleazier than his failed deals here in the US.
 
michchamp said:
The idea is that Russia wanted Trump as president because Putin could control him

none of this really adds up though. I don't see what pro-Russia actions Trump has taken, and there have been plenty of Anti-Russian actions under Trump regardless.

Trump's failed deals in Russia were not any sketchier or sleazier than his failed deals here in the US.
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am I the only person reading this who is worried that mc's account has been hacked?
 
Spartanmack said:
am I the only person reading this who is worried that mc's account has been hacked?
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You are because you struggle to pay attention, and dismiss anything that doesn't fit neatly into your world view.

Go look at any of my responses in Gulo's "RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA!" threads.

The Democrats (except Bernie and the handful of actual public servants like him in congress) want to focus on this assinine, vague, and never-ending Russia conspiracy because if gives them cover to mask the fact that they want the same things House and senate Republicans do, because they're all on the take.

Two parties that agree on everything but abortion...

This is all obvious, and has been since mid-November 2016, when all Hillary's former staffers started shrieking about Russia almost in unison.
 
michchamp said:
You are because you struggle to pay attention, and dismiss anything that doesn't fit neatly into your world view.

Go look at any of my responses in Gulo's "RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA!" threads.

The Democrats (except Bernie and the handful of actual public servants like him in congress) want to focus on this assinine, vague, and never-ending Russia conspiracy because if gives them cover to mask the fact that they want the same things House and senate Republicans do, because they're all on the take.

Two parties that agree on everything but abortion...

This is all obvious, and has been since mid-November 2016, when all Hillary's former staffers started shrieking about Russia almost in unison.
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I agree that most on both sides are correct; also senior Congress people are a lot more chummy with their fellow crooks and cronies across the aisle than they like to let on.
 
tinselwolverine said:
I agree that most on both sides are correct; also senior Congress people are a lot more chummy with their fellow crooks and cronies across the aisle than they like to let on.
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the Democrats were completely co-opted by big business a few years after the GOP were.

Bill Clinton completed what Reagan started.

But I've read a few things lately that make the point that how we talk about the difference between the parties and the words we use leave us unable to confront the actual reality of the situation, and that's by design.

We're too wrapped up in viewing this as a "team sport" (it's not, it's a class struggle) that we end up arguing against our own interests.
 
we should all be pro-environment, pro-fair market competition, anti-monopoly power, and in favor of making people pay for the costs of their actions - like the damage caused to the environment and society, etc. from strip mining, anti-poverty, pro-social safety net.

but because the labels, buzzwords, "teams" etc. confuse things we often end up arguing in circles and getting angry at eachother when we should all be on the same side. unless one of us here is secretly as wealthy as a Cock Brother, but I don't think that's true.
 
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michchamp said:
we should all be pro-environment, pro-fair market competition, anti-monopoly power, and in favor of making people pay for the costs of their actions - like the damage caused to the environment and society, etc. from strip mining, anti-poverty, pro-social safety net.

but because the labels, buzzwords, "teams" etc. confuse things we often end up arguing in circles and getting angry at eachother when we should all be on the same side. unless one of us here is secretly as wealthy as a Cock Brother, but I don't think that's true.
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Who are you, and what have you done with Michchamp? :*)
 
michchamp said:
we should all be pro-environment, pro-fair market competition, anti-monopoly power, and in favor of making people pay for the costs of their actions - like the damage caused to the environment and society, etc. from strip mining, anti-poverty, pro-social safety net.

but because the labels, buzzwords, "teams" etc. confuse things we often end up arguing in circles and getting angry at eachother when we should all be on the same side. unless one of us here is secretly as wealthy as a Cock Brother, but I don't think that's true.
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but the progressives stand for almost none of that outside of the environment. And even there, there's a canyon of difference in how each side wants to deal with it. Like with anything else, the left wants more government control and regulation, despite the fact that that virtually always leads to bad policy and worse outcomes - our healthcare system isn't messed up because of free market evil profit seekers. It's because of government intervention and regulation that shifts power into the hands of insurance and drug companies, away from consumers and providers. There is way more disagreement than just abortion, even when you strip out the crony corportists from both parties. Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders have very little in common and it's not because Rand Paul doesn't care about the environment and Bernie Sanders does.

And this isn't a class struggle unless you're talking about the political class vs. the private class. In fact, the Dems want everyone to believe it's a class struggle and are focusing on the meaningless income/wealth gap. They want the working class and all minorities to oppose the conservatives (the wealthy white racists) - they NEED that to keep them on the Dem plantation. Without the permanently poor, ill informed population the Dems wouldn't be able to win elections.
 
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tigermud said:
This former star bucks guy is going to prove very good for trump :)
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I heard him say that he has never heard such vitriol as he heard in the last couple of days from Lefties when he announced he was running for president as an independent.

He has obviously never been standing in line behind me when I ordered a triple latte half caff and was served a double latte full caff, let alone when my name was spelled wrong on the cup and the server mispronounced it.
 
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tinselwolverine said:
I heard him say that he has never heard such vitriol as he heard in the last couple of days from Lefties when he announced he was running for president as an independent.

He has obviously never been standing in line behind me when I ordered a triple latte half caff and was served a double latte full caff, let alone when my name was spelled wrong on the cup and the server mispronounced it.
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'Tinsel' seems like such an easy name to spell and/or pronounce. Sorry you had to go through that.
 
tinselwolverine said:
I heard him say that he has never heard such vitriol as he heard in the last couple of days from Lefties when he announced he was running for president as an independent.

He has obviously never been standing in line behind me when I ordered a triple latte half caff and was served a double latte full caff, let alone when my name was spelled wrong on the cup and the server mispronounced it.
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would he be treated to a scene like the one where the dude was misgendered at Gamestop...
 
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