2022 Mid Terms

[sggatecl]

I guess I?ll have to go back and forth between Joy Reid, Ben Shapiro, Rachel Maddow and Tucker Carlson to figure it out.

Maybe I?ll throw in a little Chris Cuomo. He?s back on some network that claims to be non-partisan.

Tinsel, nobody deserves to be put through that gauntlet.

 

[tigermud]

Going on 6 days post election and we still have counties that can?t seem to finish a vote count.

Unacceptable

 

[johnny2x2x]

Dems swept all statewide school elections too. Swept the state school board seats that were up for election.

Democrats also took the two contested seats on each of the governing boards for the University of Michigan, Michigan State University and Wayne State University.

A Republican couldn?t get elected dog catcher in Michigan right now if it was a statewide election.

 

[Spartanmack]

My point obviously wasn't that the $100k would've have made a difference. But it just paints a picture that she didn't have the backing of who she was supposed to represent. She most likely never would've been the candidate under normal circumstances.

And while I agree that Dixon's lack of support contributed down ballot, proposal 3 looked like a slam dunk all along and the numbers seem to agree. There are multiple counties that went for Dixon but swung 'Yes' for prop 3. In fact, I think all 5 or 6 states that had some sort of reproductive freedom/product the babies proposal ended up going a way most conservatives wouldn't like. I say most because it's clear with these results, which included Montana and Kentucky, that the gap is widening on this issue.

Just goes to show you how dumb and ill-informed the average voter is. The overwhelming majority of Americans support restrictions on abortion yet in michigan they just voted for abortions up to and beyond the moment of birth. Similarly in Montana, a red state they voted down a law that would require health care providers to give medical aid to any baby born alive. I know in Michigan it was promoted as simply a woman?s right to choose to murder her baby but still, that?s sick and depraved - you can walk away from a live baby and let it die. What the hell is wrong with the sociopaths that wrote that law?

Edit: it?s also worth pointing out this election turned on record turnout of under 30 leftist morons - which also came down to spending. Namely, the $400B illegal student loan forgiveness. Except it looks like that money will never actually be spent. I wonder how all the gender and ethnic studies folks feel about rewarding Biden and the Dems for loan forgiveness they?re never going to receive but didn?t find out about until AFTER the election. Well played Brandon, we?ll played.

 

[johnny2x2x]

Just goes to show you how dumb and ill-informed the average voter is. The overwhelming majority of Americans support restrictions on abortion yet in michigan they just voted for abortions up to and beyond the moment of birth. Similarly in Montana, a red state they voted down a law that would require health care providers to give medical aid to any baby born alive. I know in Michigan it was promoted as simply a woman?s right to choose to murder her baby but still, that?s sick and depraved - you can walk away from a live baby and let it die. What the hell is wrong with the sociopaths that wrote that law?

Edit: it?s also worth pointing out this election turned on record turnout of under 30 leftist morons - which also came down to spending. Namely, the $400B illegal student loan forgiveness. Except it looks like that money will never actually be spent. I wonder how all the gender and ethnic studies folks feel about rewarding Biden and the Dems for loan forgiveness they?re never going to receive but didn?t find out about until AFTER the election. Well played Brandon, we?ll played.

Just goes to show you how ill informed the average poster who uses the username Spartanmack is. Proposal 3 does no such thing. It restores the Roe v Wade 22 week abortion ban. You're either trolling or you get your information from people who are lying to you.

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-g...check-no-masseuses-wont-give-abortions-minors

 

[Michchamp]

abortions beyond the moment of birth? who fucking actually believes that?

and fuck, the same fucks who believe that always oppose welfare benefits for poor single mothers... like leave the baby in the crib alone for 8 hours and go get a job, whores.

 

[johnny2x2x]

abortions beyond the moment of birth? who fucking actually believes that?

and fuck, the same fucks who believe that always oppose welfare benefits for poor single mothers... like leave the baby in the crib alone for 8 hours and go get a job, whores.

Only a total and complete idiot would believe that... The same total and complete idiots who believe that proposal 3 had anything to do with gender reassignment surgery for minors. The same total and complete idiots who believe Covid vaccines make you more likely to get Covid. That's the level of total and complete idiocy that wants the US to become a Hungarian or Turkish style dictatorship. It's a problem, these people have completely turned off their bullshit meters and believe any ridiculous thing they hear if it's from the Rightwing blogosphere.

 

[Spartanmack]

Just goes to show you how ill informed the average poster who uses the username Spartanmack is. Proposal 3 does no such thing. It restores the Roe v Wade 22 week abortion ban. You're either trolling or you get your information from people who are lying to you.

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-g...check-no-masseuses-wont-give-abortions-minors

I got my information by reading Prop 3, even though I don't live or vote in Michigan. You should try it sometime. Then you might not look like such an ill-informed dumbass posting snarky comments that are obviously factually inaccurate, like you did with this link that is an opinion piece with no actual text from prop 3. Your link doesn't even say what you say it says - you're taking a page from MC's book. You really should learn to read things before you post them and make claims about what they say. Your link does say this though:

Opponents claim it would impact ? and perhaps nullify ? 41 state laws covering everything from statutory rape, parental consent, prostitution and human cloning and allow any medical professional to perform abortions. Supporters say all it would do is keep abortion legal in Michigan and ?restore protections lost when the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade.?

Which way is it? To be fair, nobody can say with a ton of certainty.

Except, there is certainty if you read the proposal and report on it honestly. Of course, you've done neither so I'll provide it for you. Directly from the proposal text:

(1) Every individual has a fundamental right to reproductive freedom, which entails the right to make and effectuate decisions about all matters relating to pregnancy, including but not limited to prenatal care, childbirth, postpartum care, contraception, sterilization, abortion care, miscarriage management, and infertility care.

An individual?s right to reproductive freedom shall not be denied, burdened, nor infringed upon unless justified by a compelling state interest achieved by the least restrictive means.

Notwithstanding the above, the state may regulate the provision of abortion care after fetal viability, provided that in no circumstance shall the state prohibit an abortion that, in the professional judgment of an attending health care professional, is medically indicated to protect the life or physical or mental health of the pregnant individual.

Mental health of course is not defined in the proposal and there is no reference to any 22 week ban anywhere in it, nor is there language stating that the proposal just restores the Roe V Wade 22 week ban on abortion, which by the way doesn't exist. Roe V Wade did not establish a 22 week or any other ban on abortion. If you read it, which I'm certain you never have, it didn't actually say a woman has a right to an abortion.

In addition, as far as I can tell, there is no law on the books in Michigan requiring medical aide be given to a born alive baby and this proposal clearly makes no mention of it anywhere. You can read the full text of it here, like I did.

So clearly, it's you who is either lying or ill-informed. Based on your track record, I'd say it's most likely the latter and also based on your track record, I expect this will be the last thing you say about this.

 

[Spartanmack]

Only a total and complete idiot would believe that... The same total and complete idiots who believe that proposal 3 had anything to do with gender reassignment surgery for minors. The same total and complete idiots who believe Covid vaccines make you more likely to get Covid. That's the level of total and complete idiocy that wants the US to become a Hungarian or Turkish style dictatorship. It's a problem, these people have completely turned off their bullshit meters and believe any ridiculous thing they hear if it's from the Rightwing blogosphere.

Only a completely ignorant hack would believe it doesn't actually happen when it actually has or that people in their party don't support unfettered abortion on demand funded by taxpayers with no restrictions or protections for abortion survivors. They're the dominant voice in your party and you're supporting that because you're either OK with it or you're an ignorant fool. Can you name 1 single democrat who has given an answer to the question "Can you name a single restriction you would put on abortion 'rights'?" You can't name one, let alone enough to get a single restriction into the platform. Yet you think Republicans are the extremists - because you're being lied to and again you're either OK with it or you agree with it.

Nobody said anything about gender reassignment surgery or that Covid vaccines (that don't work) make you more likely to get COVID. That's just bull shit hand waving nonsense to avoid defending your Party's extremist position.

Also, it's your party that is eroding Americans' freedoms and turning the US into a dictatorship - you're the pro-lock downs, pro-censorship, pro-mandates, pro-gun grabber crowd. You just don't realize it because you're a total and complete idiot that's more than happy to allow it - you not only cheer it on, you vote for it. You voluntarily surrender your freedoms and dutifully accuse the opposition of doing what your party is doing while they're doing it.

 

[johnny2x2x]

Only a completely ignorant hack would believe it doesn't actually happen when it actually has or that people in their party don't support unfettered abortion on demand funded by taxpayers with no restrictions or protections for abortion survivors. They're the dominant voice in your party and you're supporting that because you're either OK with it or you're an ignorant fool. Can you name 1 single democrat who has given an answer to the question "Can you name a single restriction you would put on abortion 'rights'?" You can't name one, let alone enough to get a single restriction into the platform. Yet you think Republicans are the extremists - because you're being lied to and again you're either OK with it or you agree with it.

Nobody said anything about gender reassignment surgery or that Covid vaccines (that don't work) make you more likely to get COVID. That's just bull shit hand waving nonsense to avoid defending your Party's extremist position.

Also, it's your party that is eroding Americans' freedoms and turning the US into a dictatorship - you're the pro-lock downs, pro-censorship, pro-mandates, pro-gun grabber crowd. You just don't realize it because you're a total and complete idiot that's more than happy to allow it - you not only cheer it on, you vote for it. You voluntarily surrender your freedoms and dutifully accuse the opposition of doing what your party is doing while they're doing it.

You're hilarious. I am for the law that just passed in Michigan. 22 week ban unless the life of the mother is at risk. 22 weeks is in place, because that's the time frame for viability.

LOL, the guy pulling for the party that is literally having book burning parties right now thinks he's on the side of freedom. Keep it up, another couple elections and your party could become extinct.

85% of Americans want stricter gun control legislation.

 

[Spartanmack]

You're hilarious. I am for the law that just passed in Michigan. 22 week ban unless the life of the mother is at risk.

LOL, the guy pulling for the party that is literally having book burning parties right now thinks he's on the side of freedom. Keep it up, another couple elections and your party could become extinct.

85% of Americans want stricter gun control legislation.

LOL, I show you proof there is no 22 week ban and still you claim it exists. It's not only in cases where the mother's life is at risk, that's clear.

And here's the latest from the Biden administration - tax payer funded abortions on demand for migrant minors. The words "parent" or "adult" or "consent" do not appear in the document.

LOL, you think someone burning a book they paid for is more detrimental to your freedom than the government actually taking your freedom away. That's your argument? How fucking stupid are you? And by the way, our party is not having book burning parties and even if they were, that's constitutionally protected speech. I don't agree with it, but it's pretty harmless - pretty sure no babies die, no one is locked down in their home, businesses aren't ruined, kids aren't set back years because they were locked out of school because someone burns a book. That could be the dumbest "gotcha" anyone has ever tried to pull on this forum.

 

[johnny2x2x]

LOL, I show you proof there is no 22 week ban and still you claim it exists. It's not only in cases where the mother's life is at risk, that's clear.

And here's the latest from the Biden administration - tax payer funded abortions on demand for migrant minors. The words "parent" or "adult" or "consent" do not appear in the document.

LOL, you think someone burning a book they paid for is more detrimental to your freedom than the government actually taking your freedom away. That's your argument? How fucking stupid are you? And by the way, our party is not having book burning parties and even if they were, that's constitutionally protected speech. I don't agree with it, but it's pretty harmless - pretty sure no babies die, no one is locked down in their home, businesses aren't ruined, kids aren't set back years because they were locked out of school because someone burns a book. That could be the dumbest "gotcha" anyone has ever tried to pull on this forum.

LOL, I'll take the law professor's word for it.

Leah M. Litman, professor of law at the University of Michigan Law School: "Proposal 3 restores the right that Roe v. Wade recognized?namely, the right to end a pregnancy before viability. Still, consistent with the Supreme Court?s decision in Roe, Proposal 3 allows the state to regulate abortion care after a fetus is viable?that is, after a fetus can survive outside of the womb. The proposal states that the government ?may regulate the provision of abortion care after fetal viability,? but that the state may never ?prohibit an abortion that, in the professional judgment of an attending health care professional, is medically indicated to protect the life or physical or mental health of the pregnant individual.? The protections and limitations contained in Proposal 3 are consistent with the principles that the Supreme Court announced in Roe."

And boy, if people weren't happy with how Whitmer handled Covid, they just had their chance to vote her out and she won by almost 11 points. Only thing that is unfortunate is term limits for the governor in MI, because she'd win in 2026 by a landslide too. The state of Michigan loves our governor.

And wait, you don't think asylum seekers or detained immigrants should have access to abortion? You want more anchor babies?

 

[tomdalton22]

LOL, I'll take the law professor's word for it.

Leah M. Litman, professor of law at the University of Michigan Law School: "Proposal 3 restores the right that Roe v. Wade recognized?namely, the right to end a pregnancy before viability. Still, consistent with the Supreme Court?s decision in Roe, Proposal 3 allows the state to regulate abortion care after a fetus is viable?that is, after a fetus can survive outside of the womb. The proposal states that the government ?may regulate the provision of abortion care after fetal viability,? but that the state may never ?prohibit an abortion that, in the professional judgment of an attending health care professional, is medically indicated to protect the life or physical or mental health of the pregnant individual.? The protections and limitations contained in Proposal 3 are consistent with the principles that the Supreme Court announced in Roe."

And boy, if people weren't happy with how Whitmer handled Covid, they just had their chance to vote her out and she won by almost 11 points. Only thing that is unfortunate is term limits for the governor in MI, because she'd win in 2026 by a landslide too. The state of Michigan loves our governor.

And wait, you don't think asylum seekers or detained immigrants should have access to abortion? You want more anchor babies?

well, the people of Detroit, AA, Lansing, Flint, and GR seem like her.

 

[Spartanmack]

LOL, I'll take the law professor's word for it.

Leah M. Litman, professor of law at the University of Michigan Law School: "Proposal 3 restores the right that Roe v. Wade recognized?namely, the right to end a pregnancy before viability. Still, consistent with the Supreme Court?s decision in Roe, Proposal 3 allows the state to regulate abortion care after a fetus is viable?that is, after a fetus can survive outside of the womb. The proposal states that the government ?may regulate the provision of abortion care after fetal viability,? but that the state may never ?prohibit an abortion that, in the professional judgment of an attending health care professional, is medically indicated to protect the life or physical or mental health of the pregnant individual.? The protections and limitations contained in Proposal 3 are consistent with the principles that the Supreme Court announced in Roe."

And boy, if people weren't happy with how Whitmer handled Covid, they just had their chance to vote her out and she won by almost 11 points. Only thing that is unfortunate is term limits for the governor in MI, because she'd win in 2026 by a landslide too. The state of Michigan loves our governor.

And wait, you don't think asylum seekers or detained immigrants should have access to abortion? You want more anchor babies?

Law professors aren't infallible - in fact, there's one at Stanford who thinks men can get pregnant. Obviously the one you're citing isn't much brighter since she obviously doesn't know what Roe decided. Of course, I don't expect you to read the decision yourself since you obviously prefer to simply find an "expert" that pushes what you believe and use the argument from authority fallacy. You even quoted the text that shows there is no viability restriction on abortion in Michigan and yet you cling to the belief that there is.

As for Whitmer, after making sure certain candidates couldn't run against her, it's not so surprising she won an election where she outspent her oppoent $48mm to $3.8mm. Michigan is a shit hole state and it's only going to get worse.

As for your last point, are you trying to outdo yourself with the dumbest "gotacha" attempt ever on this board twice in one day? I'd take border security first and then anchor babies over murdering them any day. Yet another monumentally stupid attempt at a gotcha argument. Keep going, let's see if you can manage a trifecta!

Edit: credit where credit is due - it was a good move on your part to back off the book burning is a bigger threat to democracy than the government abrogating the constitution. Smartest thing you've done on this board in years.

 

[johnny2x2x]

Law professors aren't infallible - in fact, there's one at Stanford who thinks men can get pregnant. Obviously the one you're citing isn't much brighter since she obviously doesn't know what Roe decided. Of course, I don't expect you to read the decision yourself since you obviously prefer to simply find an "expert" that pushes what you believe and use the argument from authority fallacy. You even quoted the text that shows there is no viability restriction on abortion in Michigan and yet you cling to the belief that there is.

As for Whitmer, after making sure certain candidates couldn't run against her, it's not so surprising she won an election where she outspent her oppoent $48mm to $3.8mm. Michigan is a shit hole state and it's only going to get worse.

As for your last point, are you trying to outdo yourself with the dumbest "gotacha" attempt ever on this board twice in one day? I'd take border security first and then anchor babies over murdering them any day. Yet another monumentally stupid attempt at a gotcha argument. Keep going, let's see if you can manage a trifecta!

Edit: credit where credit is due - it was a good move on your part to back off the book burning is a bigger threat to democracy than the government abrogating the constitution. Smartest thing you've done on this board in years.

You are aware that Michigan has many abortion laws on the books today that weren't invalidated by Prop 3 right? Can you at least acknowledge that? Parental consent and many other Michigan laws are still in effect and won't be going anywhere unless the legislation makes new laws invalidating them. Michigan has a viability limit on abortion that is still in effect.

Abortion isn't murder, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. Most of the country agrees with me. And even if it was, it still doesn't give any other human being the right to use someone else's body to stay alive, that's why viability has been the law of the land in most places in the US for 50 years. Unless you think the government should be able to demand your kidney because someone else needs your kidney to stay alive and you have an extra one. In a free society, the state doesn't have the right to have absolute say so over the body of half its citizens. A clump of cells doesn't get to impose its rights on a full grown human being, and that's what 93% of abortions remove, a clump of cells less than 2-1/2 inches long. Another 6% are 13-20 weeks. Only 1% are beyond that and almost always due to complications.

 

[Spartanmack]

You are aware that Michigan has many abortion laws on the books today that weren't invalidated by Prop 3 right? Can you at least acknowledge that? Parental consent and many other Michigan laws are still in effect and won't be going anywhere unless the legislation makes new laws invalidating them. Michigan has a viability limit on abortion that is still in effect.

Abortion isn't murder, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. Most of the country agrees with me. And even if it was, it still doesn't give any other human being the right to use someone else's body to stay alive, that's why viability has been the law of the land in most places in the US for 50 years. Unless you think the government should be able to demand your kidney because someone else needs your kidney to stay alive and you have an extra one. In a free society, the state doesn't have the right to have absolute say so over the body of half its citizens. A clump of cells doesn't get to impose its rights on a full grown human being, and that's what 93% of abortions remove, a clump of cells less than 2-1/2 inches long. Another 6% are 13-20 weeks. Only 1% are beyond that and almost always due to complications.

I never said anything about parental consent in Michigan - just more hand waving by you. If you can?t see that prop 3 clearly overrides the viability limit then I can?t help you - congrats you?re a useful idiot for baby murderers.

Abortion is murder regardless of what you think most of the country agrees with - murder isn?t subject to consensus. A unique human life begins at conception - a majority of doctors and biologists agree with that. No human being has the right to murder another just because they can?t survive on their own - it?s the most innocent and defenseless that need and deserve the most protection. That is indisputably the baby. Also, the viability argument is pure nonsense - first of all, it's an ever shrinking moving target thanks to medical science. Currently, it happens way before 22 weeks.
Second but most importantly, it's not the determining factor for when human life begins.

Most abortions are abortions of convenience - you even admit that yourself. How depraved do you have to be to support the murder of 1mm innocent lives in this country every year as a mere form of birth control? And your team thinks the pro abortion folks are the moral betters of the people who oppose the murder of innocent babies. That's pretty freakin sick and depraved. Your team is so in the pocket of the abortion for profit industry, they can't entertain a single restriction or spend a single dollar to support the alternative - in fact they vilify them and cheer when they're facilities are vandalized and staff are victimized.

 

[johnny2x2x]

I never said anything about parental consent in Michigan - just more hand waving by you. If you can?t see that prop 3 clearly overrides the viability limit then I can?t help you - congrats you?re a useful idiot for baby murderers.

Abortion is murder regardless of what you think most of the country agrees with - murder isn?t subject to consensus. A unique human life begins at conception - a majority of doctors and biologists agree with that. No human being has the right to murder another just because they can?t survive on their own - it?s the most innocent and defenseless that need and deserve the most protection. That is indisputably the baby. Also, the viability argument is pure nonsense - first of all, it's an ever shrinking moving target thanks to medical science. Currently, it happens way before 22 weeks.
Second but most importantly, it's not the determining factor for when human life begins.

Most abortions are abortions of convenience - you even admit that yourself. How depraved do you have to be to support the murder of 1mm innocent lives in this country every year as a mere form of birth control? And your team thinks the pro baby murderers are the moral betters of the people who oppose the murder of innocent babies. That's pretty freakin sick and depraved. Your team is so in the pocket of the abortion for profit industry, they can't entertain a single restriction or spend a single dollar to support the alternative - in fact they villify them and cheer when they're facilities are vandalized and staff are victimized.

Abortion is not murder, the majority of the country agrees. Whether or not you think it is is immaterial, that still doesn't give you or the government the right to take away the rights of control of their own bodies and health decisions of 50% of the population. Your moral judgements have no bearing on the rights of women. The state of Michigan overwhelmingly voted to protect a women's right to choose and your outrage and desire to have absolute control over other people's bodies doesn't change that.

And despite the lying ads from the Right, Michigan voters were plenty smart enough to know what this law means. The 1931 law no longer is in effect. Parental consent is still in effect unless there is a court order, just like before. This was not all that complicated, and a bunch of hypotheticals didn't cloud the issue to most voters.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/po...al-consent-gender-change-therapy/69611266007/

And abortion as convenience is also immaterial. Women, (And men) have the right to control their own bodies, period. The state doesn't get to tell me what I can do with my body because some minority of citizens want to force their views on me.

 

[Spartanmack]

And boy, if people weren't happy with how Whitmer handled Covid, they just had their chance to vote her out and she won by almost 11 points. Only thing that is unfortunate is term limits for the governor in MI, because she'd win in 2026 by a landslide too. The state of Michigan loves our governor.

And wait, you don't think asylum seekers or detained immigrants should have access to abortion? You want more anchor babies?

Lolololol - thanks for proving my point that sheep like you willingly voted to surrender your freedom to the government while freaking out about ?dictators? burning a book. You?re literally bragging about it.

Clearly, you're in over your head here. You should probably just cut bait here and quit while you're behind, maybe go over to the MSU board to talk about the win streak and try to convince everyone everything is going according to plan, we're better off with all the decommits, and Tuck Comin', etc, etc!

 

[Spartanmack]

Abortion is not murder, the majority of the country agrees. Whether or not you think it is is immaterial, that still doesn't give you or the government the right to take away the rights of control of their own bodies and health decisions of 50% of the population. Your moral judgements have no bearing on the rights of women. The state of Michigan overwhelmingly voted to protect a women's right to choose and your outrage and desire to have absolute control over other people's bodies doesn't change that.

And despite the lying ads from the Right, Michigan voters were plenty smart enough to know what this law means. The 1931 law no longer is in effect. Parental consent is still in effect unless there is a court order, just like before. This was not all that complicated, and a bunch of hypotheticals didn't cloud the issue to most voters.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/po...al-consent-gender-change-therapy/69611266007/

And abortion as convenience is also immaterial. Women, (And men) have the right to control their own bodies, period. The state doesn't get to tell me what I can do with my body because some minority of citizens want to force their views on me.

except when it comes to vaccines, right? good one. abortion is not healthcare, it's murder for convenience sake. no one has the right to murder innocent and defenseless humans. A misguided vote or consensus doesn't validate your wrong-headed and false arguments.

 

[sggatecl]

well, the people of Detroit, AA, Lansing, Flint, and GR seem like her.

People vote. Land doesn't.