4 stats make a pitcher...

[manchild98]

I thought for sure I was reading the espn message boards for a second.

 

[grandy]

Can't wait for the next thread by hellifino

3 stats that make a hitter
Average
HRs
RBI

 

[hellifino]

Can't wait for the next thread by hellifino

3 stats that make a hitter
Average
HRs
RBI

must suck being a Raburn Lover!

 

[grandy]

must suck being a Raburn Lover!

Link?

 

[hellifino]

Can't wait for the next thread by hellifino

3 stats that make a hitter
Average
HRs
RBI

A-Roid doesn't make 25 mill a year (on average) for sacrifice bunts.

 

[Thumb]

tell that to Drysdale,Kofax Whitey Ford etc.................... no one needed them useless stats back in the day, hey if it makes the parade anymore enjoyable for you then use them.

Those useless stats still apply even if they weren't used.

Look up the most successful pitchers and you will see they have good numbers in the stats everyone uses now too.

And FYI....IP, K/9, BB/9, K/BB, and WHIP were around back then too, they just didn't make the box score in the sportspage.

 

[grandy]

A-Roid doesn't make 25 mill a year (on average) for sacrifice bunts.

Is this supposed to prove your point? Because you did a terrible job.

Unless you actually believe the Yankees only looked at his triple crown stats and paid him based off that.

 

[Thumb]

I don't start the name calling, it's after hearing myself being called names that I respond.

You went off on me twice, and I have yet to call you a name.

In this thread you just did, and in the one about fire everyone, so don;t play the "defense only" card.

 

[mjsb2]

that's why it cost you $ 300 for a family of 4 to see a game.

That actually has nothing to do with it.

It costs a lot of money (it actually really doesn't) to go to games, because people are willing to pay those prices.

Edit: nice deflection btw, how about you actually address my point.

 

[mjsb2]

A-Roid doesn't make 25 mill a year (on average) for sacrifice bunts.

Nobody hates sacrifice bunts more than saber heads.

 

[tigersofjustice]

tell that to Drysdale,Kofax Whitey Ford etc.................... no one needed them useless stats back in the day, hey if it makes the parade anymore enjoyable for you then use them.

So you're just assuming that all those pitchers didn't have quality stats in the areas that you rejected? That would be silly considering almost all of them do. Their quality shows through in the other stats too.

 

[tigersofjustice]

Hellifino, though I won't attempt to force any stats down your throat. I have to say, this attitude of willful ignorance bothers me on a much bigger level because you're not the only person that has this view.

What is so wrong with admitting you don't know everything? What is so wrong about trying to learn more about stuff that you don't know? Everybody has so much f'ing pride and all it does is keep you from becoming more intelligent/more capable/more diverse/ect. There is absolutely no reason to take the view of "well take all your stats that I don't like and shove them". Swallow your pride and learn about what they have to offer or just say you don't care enough to do that and leave it at that rather than bash everyone's use of them.

 

[Thumb]

Hellifino, though I won't attempt to force any stats down your throat. I have to say, this attitude of willful ignorance bothers me on a much bigger level because you're not the only person that has this view.

What is so wrong with admitting you don't know everything? What is so wrong about trying to learn more about stuff that you don't know? Everybody has so much f'ing pride and all it does is keep you from becoming more intelligent/more capable/more diverse/ect. There is absolutely no reason to take the view of "well take all your stats that I don't like and shove them". Swallow your pride and learn about what they have to offer or just say you don't care enough to do that and leave it at that rather than bash everyone's use of them.

+1

Great post.

 

[jmakula87]

+1 to hellifino for being a very talented troll. He seems to have gotten a lot of people involved and annoyed

...I started typing stuff out, but then I realized that would equal out to another victory for the troll post.

Sometimes all you can do is let it go, guys.

 

[Rebbiv]

Contempt prior to investigation.

 

[hellifino]

So you're just assuming that all those pitchers didn't have quality stats in the areas that you rejected? That would be silly considering almost all of them do. Their quality shows through in the other stats too.

never said that, they prolly had good stats in those areas as well, they were just never kept...does it take you guys to look up useless stats to know when you see a great pitcher? I don't need to see anything more than the 4 I posted to know if a pitcher is any good or not

 

[byco42]

Actually, I agree with Hellifino in an aggregate sense, because the advanced stats are in a sense a further parsing of the primary ones he champions. I think, also, that the advance stats are especially valuable in the way that they separate pitchers' performances in a snapshot fashion--over the span of a month, season, a series of starts.

I also think there's way too much anger over what is really a nominal topic.

 

[Rebbiv]

Actually, I agree with Hellifino in an aggregate sense, because the advanced stats are in a sense a further parsing of the primary ones he champions. I think, also, that the advance stats are especially valuable in the way that they separate pitchers' performances in a snapshot fashion--over the span of a month, season, a series of starts.

I also think there's way too much anger over what is really a nominal topic.

I disagree. Wins and losses are the product of the team more than the pitcher themselves. Show me a 20-game winner and I will show you where they get their fair share of run support.

ERA has already been discussed.

I like Quality Starts, but they too have some influences.

Ks are important for power pitchers, but not so much for sinker ballers.

Basically, for the novice, ERA, W-L and Ks are the very simpliest to define and understand. There are plenty of sabermetric stats that are in flavor, that are extremely biased. FIP, xFIP, WAR, etc, etc do not tell the true picture and cannot be reliably used over multiple seasons. The same can be said for BABIP.

And just a point, WHIP is walks + hits divided by innings pitched. Why not include hits batsmen? This is also controlled by the pitcher. I also would preclude any intentional walks from WHIP, because usually the pitcher does not call for the IBB themselves.

 

[Rebbiv]

Example

Sale 10-2, 7 wins when team scores 6 or more runs (5.89 average run support)

Verlander 9-4, 2 wins when team scores 6 or more runs (3.60 average run support)

 

[gotime909]

No better gauge than to actually WATCH THE F'N GAMES!!!!!

I personally have no use for sabermetrics. You'll never show me any combinations of stats that will trump physically watching games.

I don't need to look at 20 pages of crunched numbers to know that Jose Valverde was the luckiest RP in the history of baseball last year.

Fire up the paper shredder, and form your own opinions people!!