Adios Joe

[byco42]

Paterno is not responsible for that guys actions, or what the authorities do to handle it. He should not be forced to do anything. If he wants to coach for 10 more years he should be allowed assuming they are winning.

Pontius Pilate called; he wants his water dish back, please.

 

[newton83]

am I to understand that you are using a statement from Matt Millen to bolster a point you are trying to make. Matt Millen. The same Matt Millen who oversaw the most disastrous decade of a team in NFL history? That Matt Millen?

Also, former PSU player and member of Jerry Sandusky's charity. The fact that this guy is that candid about Joe's power says something, regardless of what a fool he is everywhere else.

 

[Michchamp]

I think Paterno's passing this matter to "higher authorities" is the equivalent of looking the other way. And Paterno broke the law by not reporting the matter to the police. The people he reported the incident to , the AD and the director of finance, were arrested for obstruction and perjury, but not Paterno. Explain that one.

Tell me that Bo or Woody would take this course of action, or lack of it.

My understanding is that Paterno testified at the Grand Jury, and no charges were brought against him.

By and large, no one has a duty to report criminal activity to the authorities, nor should they really, so I'm not sure what law you claim he broke. Usually, a duty to report a crime is only established in specific circumstances.

In other news, this Penn St alum and former writer for their student newspaper claims he was not surprised by this scandal, given how the administration and coaching staff conducted themselves over the years: http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/thetoydepartment/2011/11/on_paterno.html

Certainly seems like the press was overly deferential to Penn St. I never really knew much about the school or the program.

Compare and contrast this with the University of Michigan, and the attitude of the Detroit papers to the school. To their credit they actually do their job, which is to be adversarial to those in power, and prevent them from bullshitting the public.* Think about that the next time you crap yourself when Drew Sharp says something negative about the program!





*yes, I know they do not do a very good job when it comes to actual gov't officials, but then again, big time media publishers are old rich guys who go golfing with judges, CEOs, politicians, etc. etc.. don't really expect their reporters to be out digging for dirt on those guys now, do you?

 

[TheVictors]

I know its a play on words in a way but CEO is a bad analogy. As I said before he is more of a Tom Brady than a Robert Kraft. He's the face of Penn State but not the head of it. If Wes Welker fucks a little boy in the shower and Tom Brady heard about it from the guy who washes the jock straps at night, reports it to Kraft and security and nothing happens, Tom Brady doesn't need to be fired.

I understand your point but Paterno's role far transcended being an employee of the AD and school.

Take this situation-- A Grad student (McQueary) walks in on a notable Chemistry Professor (Sandusky) raping some little kid in the basement stacks of the campus library, freaks out and leaves. The next day he goes to the head of the Chemistry Dept and reports what he'd seen, in explicit terms as did McQueary. The Chem Dept head reports up from there, the Chem Prof "retires" but maintains an office in the Chem Dept, with full access to the labs and occassional work as an adjunct professor.

In this example the Chem Dept Head is Paterno. Even in this case I'd say the Dept head bears some responsibility and should be dismissed. But, at least in this scenario you're talking about a University employee following protocol. In the case of Paterno, you're talking about one of the most powerful people in the state, let alone the University.

He's very much the "CEO" both in terms of position and power and everyone, including but definitely not limited to Matt Millen, has said as much as this whole thing has evolved.

 

[tinselwolverine]

TinselWolverine[/color]]Reporting on ESPN that Tom Ridge may take over as University President.

he did a heckuva job as the head of Dept. of Homeland Security after 9/11. I found his 1950's sitcom dad appearance very reassuring.

I kinda always thought he looked like a middle aged Archie.

 

[michlady77]

joe is the figure head of all psu

president resigning today is nothing - joe paterna IS PENN STATE

 

[wolverine304]

I'm not on either side and haven't read much about it, but I don't think anyone has said anything about if the guy was innocent. What if joe did more and his friend ended up being innocent. How would that look.

 

[michlady77]

i think the issue is even if you aren't sure you let the proper authorities investigate - police, child protective services

 

[TheVictors]

I'm not on either side and haven't read much about it, but I don't think anyone has said anything about if the guy was innocent. What if joe did more and his friend ended up being innocent. How would that look.

It doesn't appear as if there is any question of "innocence" to begin with. If Paterno didn't believe McQueary he should have confronted Sandusky himself (which perhaps he did).

If you're talking about a situation of falsely accusing someone or jumping to a conclusion based on hearsay/circumstantial evidence, that's one thing. But if you're talking about possible abuse of a child -- you don't worry about being wrong, you make sure you're wrong.

 

[newton83]

I'm not on either side and haven't read much about it, but I don't think anyone has said anything about if the guy was innocent. What if joe did more and his friend ended up being innocent. How would that look.

When the stakes are this high and the allegations this serious, such concerns go right out the window in favor of making sure a predator is not preying on children. What if the sky was pink? Who gives a shit, you look into it and report it to someone who will actually follow through with the investigation.

 

[byco42]

I think Paterno's passing this matter to "higher authorities" is the equivalent of looking the other way. And Paterno broke the law by not reporting the matter to the police. The people he reported the incident to , the AD and the director of finance, were arrested for obstruction and perjury, but not Paterno. Explain that one.

Tell me that Bo or Woody would take this course of action, or lack of it.

My understanding is that Paterno testified at the Grand Jury, and no charges were brought against him.

By and large, no one has a duty to report criminal activity to the authorities, nor should they really, so I'm not sure what law you claim he broke. Usually, a duty to report a crime is only established in specific circumstances.

In other news, this Penn St alum and former writer for their student newspaper claims he was not surprised by this scandal, given how the administration and coaching staff conducted themselves over the years: http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/thetoydepartment/2011/11/on_paterno.html

Certainly seems like the press was overly deferential to Penn St. I never really knew much about the school or the program.

Compare and contrast this with the University of Michigan, and the attitude of the Detroit papers to the school. To their credit they actually do their job, which is to be adversarial to those in power, and prevent them from bullshitting the public.* Think about that the next time you crap yourself when Drew Sharp says something negative about the program!





*yes, I know they do not do a very good job when it comes to actual gov't officials, but then again, big time media publishers are old rich guys who go golfing with judges, CEOs, politicians, etc. etc.. don't really expect their reporters to be out digging for dirt on those guys now, do you?

The AD and the financial offer were arrested for obstruction and perjury:

[i:9e3xqwzp]Nov. 7, 2011

 

[byco42]

I'm not on either side and haven't read much about it, but I don't think anyone has said anything about if the guy was innocent. What if joe did more and his friend ended up being innocent. How would that look.

You need to read more. Sandusky is an innocent as Jack Ruby, Jack Bundy and Jack the Ripper. The timeline of his abuse goes back at least 17 years, and probably longer.

 

[Michchamp]

except that he IS INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty in a court of law.

I know in this day and age, the media convicts people in the court of public opinion, and the people love to point at the TV and curse and swear, and brag about all the things they'd do if they could have 5 minutes alone with the guy... but there's a reason we have a trial, with evidence, a right to an attorney, right to confront the witnesses, and all that jazz. And trust me people, that's a good thing.

 

[Michchamp]

My understanding is that Paterno testified at the Grand Jury, and no charges were brought against him.

By and large, no one has a duty to report criminal activity to the authorities, nor should they really, so I'm not sure what law you claim he broke. Usually, a duty to report a crime is only established in specific circumstances.

In other news, this Penn St alum and former writer for their student newspaper claims he was not surprised by this scandal, given how the administration and coaching staff conducted themselves over the years: http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/thetoydepartment/2011/11/on_paterno.html

Certainly seems like the press was overly deferential to Penn St. I never really knew much about the school or the program.

Compare and contrast this with the University of Michigan, and the attitude of the Detroit papers to the school. To their credit they actually do their job, which is to be adversarial to those in power, and prevent them from bullshitting the public.* Think about that the next time you crap yourself when Drew Sharp says something negative about the program!





*yes, I know they do not do a very good job when it comes to actual gov't officials, but then again, big time media publishers are old rich guys who go golfing with judges, CEOs, politicians, etc. etc.. don't really expect their reporters to be out digging for dirt on those guys now, do you?

The AD and the financial offer were arrested for obstruction and perjury:

Nov. 7, 2011 ? Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly says Paterno is not a target of the investigation into how the school handled the accusations. But she refuses to say the same for university President Graham Spanier. Curley and Schultz, who have stepped down from their positions, surrender on charges that they failed to alert police to complaints against Sandusky.

You are mixing disciplines when you talk about the media and Drew Sharp. Sharp is a columnist, not a reporter.

that's what I thought; Paterno didn't break any laws. Curley and Schultz perjured themselves, and they're probably reviewing the laws related to educational disclosures, reporting, etc. to see if they violated any statutory duties to report the abuse.

certainly though, it's looking pretty bad for everyone at PSU, and worse with every additional bit of information that is released; they sat on this for a LONG time. I'd really like to know why the DA decided not to pursue charges in '98.

 

[TheVictors]

except that he IS INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty in a court of law.

I know in this day and age, the media convicts people in the court of public opinion, and the people love to point at the TV and curse and swear, and brag about all the things they'd do if they could have 5 minutes alone with the guy... but there's a reason we have a trial, with evidence, a right to an attorney, right to confront the witnesses, and all that jazz. And trust me people, that's a good thing.

It's also very possible that Sandusky himself was the victim of abuse at some point. There are many unknowns that a trial and the investigation will reveal. I agree about "until proven guilty" but I can't imagine the possible defense.

 

[byco42]

except that he IS INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty in a court of law.

I know in this day and age, the media convicts people in the court of public opinion, and the people love to point at the TV and curse and swear, and brag about all the things they'd do if they could have 5 minutes alone with the guy... but there's a reason we have a trial, with evidence, a right to an attorney, right to confront the witnesses, and all that jazz. And trust me people, that's a good thing.

Paterno was not charged; does not mean he did not break the law. He withheld reporting the incident the same as Curley and Schultz, who, apparently "saw nothing; knew nothing."

Proving Sandusky guilty will be like proving that water is wet or that Leon Czolgocz killed McKinley or that Harry K. Thaw killed Stanford White.. And spare us the lecture on due process; it's as axiomatic.

 

[newton83]

except that he IS INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty in a court of law.

I know in this day and age, the media convicts people in the court of public opinion, and the people love to point at the TV and curse and swear, and brag about all the things they'd do if they could have 5 minutes alone with the guy... but there's a reason we have a trial, with evidence, a right to an attorney, right to confront the witnesses, and all that jazz. And trust me people, that's a good thing.

It's also very possible that Sandusky himself was the victim of abuse at some point. There are many unknowns that a trial and the investigation will reveal. I agree about "until proven guilty" but I can't imagine the possible defense.

I'd say it's quite likely, given the well-documented cycle of abuse that many molesters follow. That still doesn't make it OK for him to do what he did, nor offer anything of a defense against it. He might be a slightly more pitiable character than a complete monster, but the fact he never sought help for his problem and continued abusing even after being caught multiple times erases any of that from the slate.

 

[Michchamp]

except that he IS INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty in a court of law.

I know in this day and age, the media convicts people in the court of public opinion, and the people love to point at the TV and curse and swear, and brag about all the things they'd do if they could have 5 minutes alone with the guy... but there's a reason we have a trial, with evidence, a right to an attorney, right to confront the witnesses, and all that jazz. And trust me people, that's a good thing.

Paterno was not charged; does not mean he did not break the law. He withheld reporting the incident the same as Curley and Schultz, who, apparently "saw nothing; knew nothing."

Proving Sandusky guilty will be like proving that water is wet or that Leon Czolgocz killed McKinley or that Harry K. Thaw killed Stanford White.. And spare us the lecture on due process; it's as axiomatic.

Well, for you maybe, but not the "people accused deserve NO rights crowd..." As far as the medieval punishment enthusiasts go, if you're a convicted sex offender, life w/out parole in a state prison is much worse than a death sentence.

As far as his guilt, Sandusky doesn't seem to have much of a chance here, taking the grand jury's findings as true. I wonder how many victims & witnesses are going to testify though?

 

[TheVictors]

I saw Dr. Phil on a cable news channel tonight say he wouldn't be surprised if -- based on "cases like these" -- there were 40-50 victims, all told.