Ausmus to be back next year.

[Rebbiv]

Nathan injury? That helped us.. We got Soria to close.

Yes it did. Nathan never earned the title "closer". Rondon hasn't earned anything either. Hence why he was sent home.

Had Castellanos been hurt and out for the year, do we make the excuse we lost our starting 3B?

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Yes it did. Nathan never earned the title "closer". Rondon hasn't earned anything either. Hence why he was sent home.

Had Castellanos been hurt and out for the year, do we make the excuse we lost our starting 3B?

I think you are missing my point. I'm not arguing if Nathan was good or not, simply saying that he was supposed to be on the team and closing games. There is only so much cash and so many roster spots to be had, so it hurts us whenever a starter goes out. Your argument about having depth and sufficient backup is fine and dandy, but you can only do that to a certain extent. The vast majority of your starters have to be around to produce or you're gonna be in trouble.

This team was "built to win" with its projected roster, so losing any starter for any extended period of time probably had a bigger impact on us than on other organizations who had more recently rebuilt, drafted better, or retained more of their own talent.

 

[Rebbiv]

I think you are missing my point. I'm not arguing if Nathan was good or not, simply saying that he was supposed to be on the team and closing games. There is only so much cash and so many roster spots to be had, so it hurts us whenever a starter goes out. Your argument about having depth and sufficient backup is fine and dandy, but you can only do that to a certain extent. The vast majority of your starters have to be around to produce or you're gonna be in trouble.

This team was "built to win" with its projected roster, so losing any starter for any extended period of time probably had a bigger impact on us than on other organizations who had more recently rebuilt, drafted better, or retained more of their own talent.

Nathan is probably better than half the stiffs that DET paraded out there. And because he wasn't used, we now know what is or isn't available.

If Wally Pipp never gets hurt, at what point do the Yankees know they have Lou Gehrig?

There are plenty of ball players that make there way by becoming the "replacement". Who was the last Tiger that made it as being a replacement?

Injuries are not all negative. You find out about your depth and can stop your disillusionment of how good you are.

We here at this site have remarked "stars and scrubs". Yes, our older stars got hurt. That happens. And maybe it affected this team worse because the lack of depth. But...and this is important...there is no disillusionment of what the organization has for depth or quality now that it has happened. As an organization, we are better off today.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Nathan is probably better than half the stiffs that DET paraded out there. And because he wasn't used, we now know what is or isn't available.

If Wally Pipp never gets hurt, at what point do the Yankees know they have Lou Gehrig?

There are plenty of ball players that make there way by becoming the "replacement". Who was the last Tiger that made it as being a replacement?

Injuries are not all negative. You find out about your depth and can stop your disillusionment of how good you are.

We here at this site have remarked "stars and scrubs". Yes, our older stars got hurt. That happens. And maybe it affected this team worse because the lack of depth. But...and this is important...there is no disillusionment of what the organization has for depth or quality now that it has happened. As an organization, we are better off today.

I don't think anybody here thought there was a star in waiting if our starters went down. Turns out that's pretty much true. The only ones who really surprised me positively were McCann, Wilson, and Norris. They outperformed my expectations and will all most likely be starters next season replacing Avila, Nathan, and Simon respectively. I'd expect better performance for a lot less salary. Outside of that, I'd be reaching to find more bright spots.

 

[Rebbiv]

I don't think anybody here thought there was a star in waiting if our starters went down. Turns out that's pretty much true. The only ones who really surprised me positively were McCann, Wilson, and Norris. They outperformed my expectations and will all most likely be starters next season replacing Avila, Nathan, and Simon respectively. I'd expect better performance for a lot less salary. Outside of that, I'd be reaching to find more bright spots.

You're kidding about McCann, right?

 

[kingofdetroit57]

You're kidding about McCann, right?

No, I'm not. You seem to be the only person I ever see saying McCann isn't worthy of a starting job.

 

[Thumb]

No, I'm not. You seem to be the only person I ever see saying McCann isn't worthy of a starting job.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=mccanja02&year=2015&t=b


'nuff said

Can only hit LHP, and at home. And that's just his hitting, his pitch calling and framing leave much to be desired as well.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=mccanja02&year=2015&t=b


'nuff said

Can only hit LHP, and at home. And that's just his hitting, his pitch calling and framing leave much to be desired as well.

I didn't say he was perfect or a finished product, nor did I say he should start every game. We should have a capable backup who starts a decent number of games, ideally against RHP given the splits. That said, he hit better than I expected, he's got a much better arm and quicker release than I expected, and he hasn't made an error all season. He definitely passes the eye test for me as a starting catcher.

 

[Thumb]

I didn't say he was perfect or a finished product, nor did I say he should start every game. We should have a capable backup who starts a decent number of games, ideally against RHP given the splits. That said, he hit better than I expected, he's got a much better arm and quicker release than I expected, and he hasn't made an error all season. He definitely passes the eye test for me as a starting catcher.

If someone else starts against RHP then McCann is the backup, not the other way around.

 

[Mitchrapp]

No, I'm not. You seem to be the only person I ever see saying McCann isn't worthy of a starting job.

Then add me to the mix. He's a future part time player, only against LHP, unless he improves a ton. At this point I use Avila full time over McCann.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

If someone else starts against RHP then McCann is the backup, not the other way around.

If someone else started every game against RHP that would be a correct statement, but that's not what I said. Catcher shouldn't be an everyday role. Guys get dinged up, worn down, and ineffective. I think McCann can and should catch the majority of games for us unless/until we can find someone better. Maybe that's 90 games, maybe it is 110 games... I don't know the right mix, but I'd say it is probably in that range.

We should have a capable backup who plays a decent amount. I thought we did this fairly well with Laird and Pena, but didn't do it as well last year or this year. Had we done that, I think Avila would have been more effective and might have more tread left on the tires now.

I'm sure there are some RHPs McCann is just awful against and others where he's fine. It's about playing the best matchups and playing the guys who give you the best chance to win. Catcher is rarely a highly impactful offensive position outside of a few players who can/could mash. Guys like Pudge, Yaddy, Posey, etc. Those are a rare breed though.

 

[Mitchrapp]

If someone else started every game against RHP that would be a correct statement, but that's not what I said. Catcher shouldn't be an everyday role. .

The started gets his rest when McCann starts against LHP. Boom. McCann should never ever never bat against RHP. Ever.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Then add me to the mix. He's a future part time player, only against LHP, unless he improves a ton. At this point I use Avila full time over McCann.

Avila can't hold up to that workload anymore. He's one more concussion away from retirement, and his knees are going now too. I think the Tigers over-used him, which is a shame. I'd probably be okay with a 60/40 or 70/30 McCann/Avila platoon for 2016, assuming Alex can get a little healthier, but I don't think he could or should be counted on as a starter anymore.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

I was curious about the frequency, and it looks like the Tigers faced a LHP in about 1/3 of their ABs this year. Roughly 1700/5300 times at bat.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I was curious about the frequency, and it looks like the Tigers faced a LHP in about 1/3 of their ABs this year. Roughly 1700/5300 times at bat.

Exactly, 40-50 games. That's enough. But he'd still need to improve his game calling. Which has been poor.

 

[Mitchrapp]

And that doesn't mean I wouldn't be okay with a different starter. Avila might not be resigned by Daddy. Nonetheless, McCann needs to improve just to become a PT player. But Ausmus is an idiot so who knows.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Exactly, 40-50 games. That's enough. But he'd still need to improve his game calling. Which has been poor.

We aren't necessarily disagreeing here, Mitch. My argument is just that we don't have a better option right now. I don't think Avila is up to the task of playing in the majority of games, nor do I see him as a better catcher than McCann going forward. Maybe 2011 Avila, but not the tired ass 2015 version. I also think McCann is better than you are giving him credit for and will hopefully improve over the next few seasons. Not a huge difference of opinion here though.

With as many holes as we have going into 2016, I don't see them spending on a "starting" catcher. We'll probably need a backup unless they think Holaday is that guy. If they don't, I'd look at Avila on the cheap or try to find someone else with good RHP splits to be the backup.

 

[Mitchrapp]

We aren't necessarily disagreeing here, Mitch. My argument is just that we don't have a better option right now. I don't think Avila is up to the task of playing in the majority of games, nor do I see him as a better catcher than McCann going forward. Maybe 2011 Avila, but not the tired ass 2015 version. I also think McCann is better than you are giving him credit for and will hopefully improve over the next few seasons. Not a huge difference of opinion here though.

With as many holes as we have going into 2016, I don't see them spending on a "starting" catcher. We'll probably need a backup unless they think Holaday is that guy. If they don't, I'd look at Avila on the cheap or try to find someone else with good RHP splits to be the backup.

Avila could bat 0 and be a better option. If he's not here or isn't healthy they better get a C quickedy split.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Avila could bat 0 and be a better option. If he's not here or isn't healthy they better get a C quickedy split.

Here's the FA crop. Who do you want?

Catchers

Alex Avila (29)
Chris Iannetta (33)
Dioner Navarro (32)
Brayan Pena (34)
A.J. Pierzynski (39)
Geovany Soto (33)
Matt Wieters (30)

 

[Mitchrapp]

I'd take A.J. Pierzynski at 40 over McCann. And of course Avila. Regardless, the pitching was bad this year, the BP is always bad - but all made worse because of McCann. Sanchez, how do you go from 4 HR in 120 some innings to 29 in 150?