B1G Power Rankings

[Spartanmack]

My original intent was to merely take a shot at the Leaders and Best lurking squad. Spartanmack and Sbee should now drop their weapons and agree that the enemy of their enemy is their friend. :bat:

michigan is not my enemy - I have a wolverine brother and sister and when we're not playing them head-to-head I root for them. Plus, I'll never give those smug bastards like Tinsel the satisfaction of hating them.

I do enjoy the bad blood rivalry between the wolverines and buckeyes - other than cheering for michigan to win I stay out of it and just enjoy reading/hearing the back and forth.

 

[jwlcosu]

Why do you even post on any of these boards?

It's a fair question. I got started back in the ESPN days, as you know, and came here when that went away. It's a bit of a habit, I guess, and a way to spend some down time. I'm on an hour or two a week and it's funny to me that the Michigan Men get riled by that.

 

[tinselwolverine]

It's a fair question. I got started back in the ESPN days, as you know, and came here when that went away. It's a bit of a habit, I guess, and a way to spend some down time. I'm on an hour or two a week and it's funny to me that the Michigan Men get riled by that.

Don't flatter yourself.

Especially here on the Spartan board.

 

[jwlcosu]

The times, they are a changin'

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post...season-all-big-ten-team?ex_cid=espnapi_public

Combined, OSU and Michigan have just two mid-season selections. Far outpaced by MSU and others.

 

[Spartanmack]

Glad to see they gave the DE spot to Marcus Rush - he's clearly had the better year so far but Calhoun still gets all the media attention when they talk about our defense (other than here, that is).

Kinda lame that they went w/ 3 RBs and no TEs - don't know about other TEs in the league but I feel like Price would at least deserve consideration this squad.

 

[Michchamp]

I guess you want to make a mountain out of a mole hill, i made a statement that based on recent memory this shouldn't be that strange. Take the helmets and history out of it and just look at records.

Of course it's odd to see michigan in 13th because there's only been a 13th place for a few weeks. in the last few years, their big ten records have been 3-5, 6-2, 6-2, 3-5, 1-7, 2-6, 6-2, 7-1, 5-3. that's not cellar dweller stuff but it's hard to say that a team that's averaged about 4 wins in conference for the last decade is shocking....

I would say it's shocking given that we were predicted to return to form this year, and now there is a real question mark over what will become of Michigan football going forward.

The RichRod years were bad, but there was an expectation that once he was gone we only needed to reach back to someone from the Schembechler era to get back to form. Unfortunately, the links to Bo brought in to right the ship (Dave Brandon and Brady Hoke) were not what they seemed.

and the real crazy thing is that we went 11-2 in Hoke's first year... in hindsight, the consequences from that are looking to be almost as bad for us as Charlie Weis' year one at ND was for them.

 

[Sbee]

I would say it's shocking given that we were predicted to return to form this year, and now there is a real question mark over what will become of Michigan football going forward.

The RichRod years were bad, but there was an expectation that once he was gone we only needed to reach back to someone from the Schembechler era to get back to form. Unfortunately, the links to Bo brought in to right the ship (Dave Brandon and Brady Hoke) were not what they seemed.

and the real crazy thing is that we went 11-2 in Hoke's first year... in hindsight, the consequences from that are looking to be almost as bad for us as Charlie Weis' year one at ND was for them.

I don't think anyone outside of your fan base was predicting that much. Your optimism was based on a new oc, an OL somehow improving after losing two NFL tackles, and chemistry, which was grasping at straws. Of course nobody thought you'd be this bad.

This preoccupation with bo schembechler and his lineage really holds michigan back.

 

[tomdalton22]

This preoccupation with bo schembechler and his lineage really holds michigan back.

THIS....just get the best coach out there....but they are obsessed with getting a "Michigan Man"

It seems like the two Michigan Men they have now don't know what the fuck they are doing.

 

[Spartanmack]

The Michigan Man thing is not about direct lineage to Bo or even someone with direct links to the program. The concept, as I understand it is to get someone who holds the program and university in high regard who doesn't compromise their standards or ethics, who doesn't cheat and someone who makes sure his kids are student athletes - who makes sure his they go to class and keep their noses clean. Every school should try to hire a coach like that. I suppose it's kind of arrogant for them to imply those ideals are exclusive to "michigan men", if they are implying that but no one should be surprised that there are some arrogant pricks in the uofm fan base. The concept, under a different title, should be a global standard for all collegiate athletics.

 

[Sbee]

The Michigan Man thing is not about direct lineage to Bo or even someone with direct links to the program. The concept, as I understand it is to get someone who holds the program and university in high regard who doesn't compromise their standards or ethics, who doesn't cheat and someone who makes sure his kids are student athletes - who makes sure his they go to class and keep their noses clean. Every school should try to hire a coach like that. I suppose it's kind of arrogant for them to imply those ideals are exclusive to "michigan men", if they are implying that but no one should be surprised that there are some arrogant pricks in the uofm fan base. The concept, under a different title, should be a global standard for all collegiate athletics.

That goes back to the 1989 quote from Bo about Bill Frieder and Steve Fisher after Frieder wanted to coach the basketball team after taking another job. I think now for them it means someone with ties to the university, at least in the context of a coaching search. they are getting their hopes and dreams set on Miles or either Harbaugh with more of them hoping for one of the brothers.

 

[Michchamp]

The Michigan Man thing is not about direct lineage to Bo or even someone with direct links to the program. The concept, as I understand it is to get someone who holds the program and university in high regard who doesn't compromise their standards or ethics, who doesn't cheat and someone who makes sure his kids are student athletes - who makes sure his they go to class and keep their noses clean. Every school should try to hire a coach like that. I suppose it's kind of arrogant for them to imply those ideals are exclusive to "michigan men", if they are implying that but no one should be surprised that there are some arrogant pricks in the uofm fan base. The concept, under a different title, should be a global standard for all collegiate athletics.

yeah, that's how I understood it as well. But sbee is right about how it was first used by Bo more literally, although ironically, because Frieder was an alum, and Fisher wasn't. And Fisher displayed much looser ethical standards than expected when the "Michigan Man" concept was later codified in Bo's book (I think).

That goes back to the 1989 quote from Bo about Bill Frieder and Steve Fisher after Frieder wanted to coach the basketball team after taking another job. I think now for them it means someone with ties to the university, at least in the context of a coaching search. they are getting their hopes and dreams set on Miles or either Harbaugh with more of them hoping for one of the brothers.

I wish Bo had never said it at that time. It's created too much confusion, and the press throws the comment around all the time, and writes a lot of stupid things about it.

Although... it is sort of useful as an indicator... when RichRod was asked about it, I cringed when reading his response. he didn't get it, and never would.

 

[Sbee]

yeah, that's how I understood it as well. But sbee is right about how it was first used by Bo more literally, although ironically, because Frieder was an alum, and Fisher wasn't. And Fisher displayed much looser ethical standards than expected when the "Michigan Man" concept was later codified in Bo's book (I think).



I wish Bo had never said it at that time. It's created too much confusion, and the press throws the comment around all the time, and writes a lot of stupid things about it.

Although... it is sort of useful as an indicator... when RichRod was asked about it, I cringed when reading his response. he didn't get it, and never would.

Frieder was as dirty if not more than Fisher, it was just that fisher got caught. Frieder turned a blind eye to uncle Ed and then Fisher continued it, I'd put more blame on the person who started the fire than the one who didn't put it out. I guess that's a story for another thread though.

I just think Michigan fans are too caught up with the "Michigan Man" thing and their interpretation of it. You might say that it's just a peson with integrity that fits the university but that's not how the majority of people see it. Even now, they're throwing around these names of AD's that have Michigan ties. When you shrink the available candidates down to a handful you're a lot more likely to end up with a Brandon or a Hoke.

 

[Michchamp]

Frieder was as dirty if not more than Fisher, it was just that fisher got caught. Frieder turned a blind eye to uncle Ed and then Fisher continued it, I'd put more blame on the person who started the fire than the one who didn't put it out. I guess that's a story for another thread though.

I just think Michigan fans are too caught up with the "Michigan Man" thing and their interpretation of it. You might say that it's just a peson with integrity that fits the university but that's not how the majority of people see it. Even now, they're throwing around these names of AD's that have Michigan ties. When you shrink the available candidates down to a handful you're a lot more likely to end up with a Brandon or a Hoke.

Crap... I forgot the mere mention of the Ed Martin scandal is one of those things that sends your levels off the charts.

Get real. every program with even a modicum of success has guys like Ed Martin around it. The real issue is how the school/program deals with it when they learn about it. Do they turn a blind eye, or do they report/block access? Fisher obviously knew about it, and worse, actively did favors for Ed Martin. But can you point us to any actual evidence Frieder even knew about his influence on players?

 

[Sbee]

Crap... I forgot the mere mention of the Ed Martin scandal is one of those things that sends your levels off the charts.

Get real. every program with even a modicum of success has guys like Ed Martin around it. The real issue is how the school/program deals with it when they learn about it. Do they turn a blind eye, or do they report/block access? Fisher obviously knew about it, and worse, actively did favors for Ed Martin. But can you point us to any actual evidence Frieder even knew about his influence on players?

this is almost worth of another thread but Martin was present at Michigan games and recruiting trips during the frieder era. He did attempt to give cash and gifts to Terry Mills. If you want to believe that this was an isolated incident and he never did anything else improper before Fisher took over, go ahead, I just think it's naive to think that it all started in 1990. also, the grand jury didn't go that far back in their investigation.

Of course every program has some bad elements and maybe some players do get improper benefits, it's naive to think that doesn't happen elsewhere. I just think that it's a case of a dimmer switch vs on/off. Michigan was guilty of the biggest pay for play scandal in NCAA basketball history, that constitutes a glass house in my book.

 

[johnny2x2x]

No, every program doesn't have Ed Martins around it. A guy who ran a sports gambling ring and was involved with organized crime who got caught giving 3/4 of a million dollars to U of M athletes, at least 3/4 Million is what they could prove. More was alleged.

If you think Ed Martin gave all that money to those athletes because he was just a big fan of the team you're kidding yourself. Also not likely a high interest loan either.

 

[tomdalton22]

No, every program doesn't have Ed Martins around it. A guy who ran a sports gambling ring and was involved with organized crime who got caught giving 3/4 of a million dollars to U of M athletes, at least 3/4 Million is what they could prove. More was alleged.

If you think Ed Martin gave all that money to those athletes because he was just a big fan of the team you're kidding yourself. Also not likely a high interest loan either.

Are you suggesting that Webber knew that they didn't have any timeouts left????

 

[Michchamp]

No, every program doesn't have Ed Martins around it. ...

Yes, I meant there are exact copies of Ed Martin around every program... genius.

Get real. Of course, not the same guy, but in every case, it's only a difference of degree, not of kind.

 

[Sbee]

Yes, I meant there are exact copies of Ed Martin around every program... genius.

Get real. Of course, not the same guy, but in every case, it's only a difference of degree, not of kind.

I just took exception with you saying that Fisher had much looser moral standards than Frieder. the grand jury didn't go that far back but there was a lot of reason to believe that it didn't start with Fisher, I'm fairly confident that it ended with Fisher but Martin was around well before he became the head coach.

we can get back to talking about the big ten power rankings if you'd like

 

[Michchamp]

I just took exception with you saying that Fisher had much looser moral standards than Frieder. the grand jury didn't go that far back but there was a lot of reason to believe that it didn't start with Fisher, I'm fairly confident that it ended with Fisher but Martin was around well before he became the head coach.

I was curious to see what information you had (online obviously) about Ed Martin's relationship with the basketball program pre-dating Fisher.

from Jalen Rose's comments, it sounds like Ed Martin was giving money to pretty much every kid in Detroit who could play basketball, so of course, that alone isn't really an indictment of Michigan basketball or Bill Frieder.

you just keep mentioning the rumors and allegations without substance. I can't stop you from believing whatever you want to believe, but I'm curious if any hard evidence of collusion between Frieder & Ed Martin was ever revealed publicly. sounds like no.

we can get back to talking about the big ten power rankings if you'd like

Personally, I do not care about Big Ten power rankings, only things specific to the University of Michigan. But you guys can ignore me and keep shining eachother's knobs about being #1 in the "Big Ten power rankings" (in maybe the weakest Big Ten of most of our lifetimes) if you want.

 

[tomdalton22]

If MSU is #1 in the "Big Ten Power Rankings" in the weakest Big Ten of most of our lifetimes...how bad does that make Michigan and the rest of the bottom feeders?