Carson Wentz

[detroit1811]

Just a question for the posters on here that are very "Anti Goff".

Assuming the reports are true, Indy has offered 2 2nd round picks for Carson Wentz. If you check out his contract, once he is traded it will be very similar to what we took on with Goff. I think if you asked 10 people who they would rather have at QB, at least 8 would say Goff. Worst case you would say they are 50/50.

With that being said If teams are offering two 2nd's for Wentz, and their contracts are similar, Goff is going to be worth at least that, if not better.

I know there are people on here that count Goff as a negative in that trade, but if that is the case then why was there legitimate trade interest in Goff before we made the deal? Below is from Peter Schrager.


Jared Goff will reportedly be traded to the Detroit Lions in the deal sending Matthew Stafford to the Los Angeles Rams, but according to Peter Schrager of Fox Sports, "multiple teams" made calls to the Rams to inquire about Goff.

Per that report, "This wasn't some throw-in. The Lions wanted him. He had a market. Around [the] NFL, Goff is regarded well."


So in essence, Holmes and Co flipped Stafford for a two firsts, two 2nds, and a 3rd.

 

[sggatecl]

Just a question for the posters on here that are very "Anti Goff".

Assuming the reports are true, Indy has offered 2 2nd round picks for Carson Wentz. If you check out his contract, once he is traded it will be very similar to what we took on with Goff. I think if you asked 10 people who they would rather have at QB, at least 8 would say Goff. Worst case you would say they are 50/50.

With that being said If teams are offering two 2nd's for Wentz, and their contracts are similar, Goff is going to be worth at least that, if not better.

I know there are people on here that count Goff as a negative in that trade, but if that is the case then why was there legitimate trade interest in Goff before we made the deal? Below is from Peter Schrager.


Jared Goff will reportedly be traded to the Detroit Lions in the deal sending Matthew Stafford to the Los Angeles Rams, but according to Peter Schrager of Fox Sports, "multiple teams" made calls to the Rams to inquire about Goff.

Per that report, "This wasn't some throw-in. The Lions wanted him. He had a market. Around [the] NFL, Goff is regarded well."


So in essence, Holmes and Co flipped Stafford for a two firsts, two 2nds, and a 3rd.

To help everyone out I narrowed the search for the 'just a question' part.

 

[sggatecl]

My answer is because some teams have a QB worse than Goff and he'd be an improvement. Pretty simple.

Some Lions fans view it negatively because they view Goff as anti rebuild. Some really wanted a rookie QB next year and Goff may lessen those chances. Some don't like Goff. Some will shit on anything the Lions do.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I'm not anti Goff. Trading Staffs was the prize I would have taken a half eaten biscuit for him. I was just hoping for cap space and grabbing a young QB. I hope he does well here.

 

[detroit1811]

My answer is because some teams have a QB worse than Goff and he'd be an improvement. Pretty simple.

Some Lions fans view it negatively because they view Goff as anti rebuild. Some really wanted a rookie QB next year and Goff may lessen those chances. Some don't like Goff. Some will shit on anything the Lions do.

I did get a little lost in that ramble. Basically the question I was asking was If Wentz is worth 2 2nd rounder, what is Jared Goff worth?

Regardless of someone's opinion on a rebuild, we got good value in getting Goff in return, plus the rest of the compensation.

 

[detroit1811]

I'm not anti Goff. Trading Staffs was the prize I would have taken a half eaten biscuit for him. I was just hoping for cap space and grabbing a young QB. I hope he does well here.

I still don't think a young QB is completely off the table. If Holmes and Co view one of these guys as a true franchise QB I think they pull the trigger. I think what Goff does though is it allows us not to have to give up extra draft capital to go and get that guy.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I did get a little lost in that ramble. Basically the question I was asking was If Wentz is worth 2 2nd rounder, what is Jared Goff worth?

Regardless of someone's opinion on a rebuild, we got good value in getting Goff in return, plus the rest of the compensation.

If you go by stats they both had a couple nice years. And they both eventually struggled.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I still don't think a young QB is completely off the table. If Holmes and Co view one of these guys as a true franchise QB I think they pull the trigger. I think what Goff does though is it allows us not to have to give up extra draft capital to go and get that guy.

I think it better be, at least this season. We have a QB now lets build the D.

 

[sggatecl]

I did get a little lost in that ramble. Basically, the question I was asking was If Wentz is worth 2 2nd rounder, what is Jared Goff worth?

Regardless of someone's opinion on a rebuild, we got good value in getting Goff in return, plus the rest of the compensation.

Ah, in that case...

In my opinion, I view them equally bad (and good). Both relatively young with previous success, but trending downwards. If Wentz is worth 2 2nds, I'd be confident in saying Goff is worth the same.

 

[mhughes0021]

Why was there a market? That's easy. Their coach wanted him out and put him on the market despite his enormous dead cap number. That should be a hint as to how bad they wanted him gone. Its not goffs value that was worth the future first...it was taking on the contract. Id imagine part of that is the same for the wentz situation.

 

[detroit1811]

Why was there a market? That's easy. Their coach wanted him out and put him on the market despite his enormous dead cap number. That should be a hint as to how bad they wanted him gone. Its not goffs value that was worth the future first...it was taking on the contract. Id imagine part of that is the same for the wentz situation.

That doesn?t make any sense to me. If it is Wentz contract then the Eagles would be giving a team picks plus Wentz to take it on. There was legitimate trade interest in Goff. That means teams were calling to GIVE the Rams picks for Goff. If they needed another team to take on the salary ( Brock Osweiler) the Rams would?ve had to give a team picks.

I do agree a team giving up on him is a bad sign, but sometimes you just need a change of scenery and both team and player agree. I personally would bet against him working long term but that doesn?t mean he didn?t have value.

 

[mhughes0021]

That doesn’t make any sense to me. If it is Wentz contract then the Eagles would be giving a team picks plus Wentz to take it on. There was legitimate trade interest in Goff. That means teams were calling to GIVE the Rams picks for Goff. If they needed another team to take on the salary ( Brock Osweiler) the Rams would’ve had to give a team picks.

I do agree a team giving up on him is a bad sign, but sometimes you just need a change of scenery and both team and player agree. I personally would bet against him working long term but that doesn’t mean he didn’t have value.

We had a very good idea of what stafford was worth because of how many offers there were confirmed. 2 picks...a first and a 3rd. Thats it.

We got the 3rd this year. You can probably call next year first and Goff equivalent to a first this year. That means they paid us a 2023 first round pick just to shed his contract. The rams had to in order to fit Stafford...they would be paying like 95 million to QBs if they didnt.

The Eagles are trying to portray the Stafford situation and Wentz situation as the same. Its not or else the Panthers would have offered them a first and 3rd already. In reality their situation is similar to Goffs. Hes got $60 mil in dead cap tied to him and a cap hit of $34 mil. Thats a hefty price to pay if they are leaning toward starting Hurts or even drafting another QB. Wentz's contract is slightly more attractive than Goffs because he has a potential out next year instead of 2 years from now.

Ive heard Indy has offered (2) 2nds. Thats probably the best offer theyll get due to the contract.

Now...with all that said they may end up getting a better offer if the draft comes and goes and teams still arent happy with their QB situation. Teams could get desperate to find an answer with all the movement thats happening. Thats not a chip the lions could play since they wanted draft capital and they had early march deadlines.

 

[LKP]

Rams could have traded Goff separately or even cut him. They didn't have to give him to us. Holmes wanted him

Goff has talent, has shown good production with team support but regressed. We'll see if the new staff can support him and coach him to be better. He is now entering his prime. It's worth a shot by Holmes, the 2021 cap space lost is not a big deal given how long the rebuild will be with a draft focused. We want it done right through the draft. They can add more FAs in 2022, 2023 as we will have a ton of space. There is about 30 million of cuts we can make in 2021 too

We'll never know how much Goff was truly worth barring a second trade. And teams value players differently sometimes too. There is no 32 team consensus. Some team may feel his worth a 1st, others maybe just a 2nd. Other factors like contract, age, injuries, etc.

McVay is using Goff as a scape goat. Run game also decreased in 2019. Protection decreased some. Defense was average with Wade Phillips but good with Staley in 2020 (now a HC). Maybe McVay got figured out. I remember 2018 Patricia and Pats figuring him out pretty well and that carried over. You have to coach a QB not to commit turnovers (see Stafford with Caldwell and prior). Rams have lost some offensive coaching over the years too.

Speaking of Statley, the guy hired Joe Lombardi as OC and tried to hire Joe Barry as DC. Woof thats like the worst Lions combo ever at OC and DC

 

[grandy]

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1362442800344752141?s=21

Wentz to the Colts for 2021 3rd and conditional 2022 2nd

 

[JScottWriter]

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1362442800344752141?s=21

Wentz to the Colts for 2021 3rd and conditional 2022 2nd

Can we get that for Goff now?

 

[LKP]

Stafford deal looks so much better right now. Even if that 2nd becomes a 1st for Wentz

Wentz should succeed with indys run game and oline

 

[detroit1811]

There is no reason why Goff couldn't fetch a similar deal. This one right here is for Mitch (Meant Hughes)**

We draft Trey Lance at #7 overall and let him sit behind Goff for a year. Goff goes out and proves he can still play at a high level using the motivation from proving McVay wrong and the drafting of Trey Lance. Lance proves to this staff in meetings and practice that he has what it takes and is the real deal. We flip Goff in 2022 who has three years and very management salary for a Stafford like haul to a contender. We go into 2022 with Trey Lance as our QB and three 1st round picks in 2022, and 2023.

7. Detroit Lions
Trey Lance, QB, North Dakota State

Don’t think for a second the Lions are out of the quarterback market because they acquired Jared Goff. The extra draft capital they have is nice, but it won’t mean a thing if they don’t get the quarterback position right. Lance has the tools to be a star. He’s not ready to play yet, and in Detroit, he can sit a season and take over in 2022.

I still think that the Lions beat writ

That above is from Dave Birkett

 

[mhughes0021]

Stafford deal looks so much better right now. Even if that 2nd becomes a 1st for Wentz

Wentz should succeed with indys run game and oline

not sure why we have to keep explaining this. But the stafford deal was "sweetened" by the fact the Lions took on Goffs contract. This didnt happen in the Wentz trade because Indy didnt have a qb contract they had to unload. In the end it was similar to what everyone rumored they were going to get. It was rumored to be (2) 2nds. Ended up being a 3rd and potential future 1st.

 

[detroit1811]

not sure why we have to keep explaining this. But the stafford deal was "sweetened" by the fact the Lions took on Goffs contract. This didnt happen in the Wentz trade because Indy didnt have a qb contract they had to unload. In the end it was similar to what everyone rumored they were going to get. It was rumored to be (2) 2nds. Ended up being a 3rd and potential future 1st.

I didn't keep arguing on because it wasn't worth it, but your point makes no sense. The Rams had other offers for Goff. Why would they have to sweeten the deal just to unload him when they could've just traded him somewhere else? Indy is giving up draft capital AND taking on Wentz contract.

 

[tomdalton22]

I didn't keep arguing on because it wasn't worth it, but your point makes no sense. The Rams had other offers for Goff. Why would they have to sweeten the deal just to unload him when they could've just traded him somewhere else? Indy is giving up draft capital AND taking on Wentz contract.

all of the stories that I read said that it was the Rams that were dangling Goff hoping to get rid of him via trade, not other teams making offers for him.