Chris Houston out?

[Mitchrapp]

As much as I don't think that I could also certainly see it. Why not, how many times did we go into the draft being short at CB. And still not select a high rated QB and then pick up all the waiver wire failures.

 

[zyxt9]

2011 play from Tulloch, Avirl, Jackson and Young is very realistic. They can in fact play better than they did in 2011. Avril and Jackson played well in 2010 too. Young is a young player who is learning. Tulloch had many good year with the Titans before a great 2011 with the Lions. Same goes with Pettigrew in 2010/2011 being better than 2012. And Stafford 2011 is his potential and he can duplicate it. Calvin can surely get 12-16 TDs again in a season. Having the Lions play to their capabilities of their talent is not a fantasy. It is something that is very possible to happen. And you should want it and expect it to happen as well.

OOOOOOoooooooOOOOOOO, Dreamweaver

Tully is starting to feel the age factor. Avril is very close to gone (praying that his overpaid ass goes sooner than later), LoJack and Young can improve their game yes, but that is taking into account they are 2nd string and it would be very nice to see them step up and become legit starter material.

We were discussing defense, why are you suddenly throwing in all the offensive players into the mix? Outside of CJ, Staff does not have major weapons. Yes Pett is ok, but he does not fit with the O the Lions run as his best asset is blocking and Staff needs really good receiving TEs to be more effective. The run game is terrible at best, Backus and especially Raiola are aged more than moldy cheese, Fox is "injury consistent", Reiff is trying but apparently he isn't good enough to crack a starting tackle spot despite being drafted to do so. Running backs are disappointing at best. Burleson iissss ssslllooowwwwiiiinnngggg dddooooowwwwwnnnnn, Broyles shows promise WHEN he is healthy, and no backup currently able to step in to help if they get injured.

You are still basing your conclusions on wishful thinking, dreams, and "If" scenarios and have no solid basis of proof for your conclusions. It is quite possible that those 2011 numbers will be career highs for everyone except CJ obviously. UNTIL they perform at same or higher level, you cannot ASSUME that they are capable of doing so, especially when those numbers are above the norm for them based on their career numbers.

Stop proclaiming your cream dream scenarios as reality. Your posts sound like a hormone infused teen whacking off to Playboy.

 

[LKP]

No I'm basing it off their play. And many of those players have several years of good play with 2012 being the outlier.

Tulloch is only 28 years old and plays LB(can go mid 30s). Strike 1 for you.

Avril/Mayhew discussed his contract. They can bring Avril back. It all depends on Avril and the market. If you are so sure of his value, then I'm sure other GMs are just as sure and he'll get back at the right price. Even if Avril hits the open market, Avril will then learn his true market value which is what Mayhew offered him last season. Strike 2 for you.

I bring up Stafford. Because if Stafford plays like 2011, then the Lions win a bunch of game no matter who is on defense. Strike 3 you are out.

 

[zyxt9]

U need to see a doc and get a head exam.

Avril will not be back and wishing him to be handicaps the team both in cost and performance. He cannot play run d and wants money that the lions are better off using on guys who deserve it or spread across multiple areas of need.

Tully is ok for now, he might do better than last year, might do the same, might do worse. The point is u have no fucking clue how he will perform and ur rainbows and sunshine outlook is not undeserved here, but coupled with how many times u use that shtick, no one trusts ur opinion nor optimism, especially after saying what u do about avril.

U don't have a crystal ball. You repeatedly say IF...IF...IF as though ur opinion is fact. 2011 could very easily be staff's career year, u have nothing to prove otherwise.

Ur scenarios are barring injuries as well. Injuries happen. By overpaying for so many guys like u want, acquiring depth is not possible. For the last time, this is NOT a fucking video game!!! Injuries will happen, just like ur infamous 2011. Champion teams have depth to reduce the impact of injuries. The lions are still trying to find starters and depth is nonexistent. Y? In no small part due to our drafts not being good enough. That is on Myhew, period. No stud at R B, no second CB, no second safety, OL is still a problem as is LB. WR and DE now need fixed as well. Team is back in rebuilding mode. Can they recover a little faster this time, perhaps. But ur sunshine and rainbows is not reality. There are very serious problems with the team and ur IFs won't solve them. They have to be solved concretely, not magically. Put down ur sorcerer hat and wand, stop sniffing ur pixie dust, and wake the fuck up.

 

[lgolfer]

Although I think LKP is a little too optimistic, he's not totally offbase. Tulloch is a good middle linebacker and should continue to be for several years barring a big injury, which is unlikely (he hasn't missed a game in his career).

Avril I highly doubt will be back and I don't really want him back. I'd rather use the money for other guys.

Lastly, I agree Stafford will have a better year than 2012 because our O-line should improve a little with Nagy instead of Peterman, Reiff probably instead of Cherilus, and possibly another change via free agency or the draft.

LKP's points aren't ridiculous, so zyxt specifically, make your point and stop being a complete jerk.

 

[LKP]

It's not magical these guys playing at 2011 level. It's what they should do based on their talent level. If anything 2012 was severely underachieving coupled with concentrated injuries, not lacking talent. Therefore, not as many problems for this team as you think. Still some problems in run blocking and run defense but scoring and turnovers and pressure can be fixed. Nothing that cant' fixed in free agency or the draft. Some of those fixes WILL come from players on last rosters just flat out playing better. Maybe LeShoure one year removed from an achilles, maybe more Reiff run blocking. Someone WILL play better. And if it's Stafford, the Lions will be right back in the mix.

And Avril being a good pass rusher in 2010/2011 is a fact. 2012 he was average. The Lions want him back, we'll see if the numbers line up right. Plus they have the draft to get a good one and Jackson/Young have shown enough not to give up on them. Especially Jackson.

Yeah we lost Burleson. Didn't miss a beat with Broyles even when Young was acting up and gone. See Texan game with Calvin/Broyles/Pettigrew and Indy game with just Calvin/Pettigrew. But then Broyles and Pettigrew got hurt. Those type of injuries are different than normal NFL injuries because it's concentrated forcing to sign guys off the street. That's not a depth issues, that's extreme bad luck. Palmer did well when Levy went down. Reiff did well when Backus went down. DT held it together when Corey Williams went down as Fariley did really well and Sammie Lee Hill did a solid job when Fairley and Corey Williams were both down.

Same with safety ok, we lost Delmas, and we lost Spievey early and Carey in training camp causing him to be cut and later luckily re-signed. Any team loses their 3 top safeties yeah 4th/5th option playing together probably suck. Notice the Packers, sure they lost Woodson, but they did not lose Burnett too or Burnett's backup.

CB they were hit or miss for losing Berry, Bentley, Greenwood and Lacey plus Houston early for 2 games. Green did a solid job and grew as a player(he stayed with guys and has size). Florence sucked after he was on temp IR on top of the safety 4th/5th options playing. Yes there will be 1 maybe 2 guys hurts, but I gurantee Bentley, Bartell, Greenwood, Delmas, Carey, another vet CB won't ALL miss extended time all at the same time in 2013. Same with the WRs/Pettigrew.

 

[zyxt9]

Although I think LKP is a little too optimistic, he's not totally offbase. Tulloch is a good middle linebacker and should continue to be for several years barring a big injury, which is unlikely (he hasn't missed a game in his career).

Avril I highly doubt will be back and I don't really want him back. I'd rather use the money for other guys.

Lastly, I agree Stafford will have a better year than 2012 because our O-line should improve a little with Nagy instead of Peterman, Reiff probably instead of Cherilus, and possibly another change via free agency or the draft.

LKP's points aren't ridiculous, so zyxt specifically, make your point and stop being a complete jerk.

If u have been following this nonstop continual situation, u would see that I am not being a jerk at all but attempted to bring some reality into the conversation only to continually have lkp throw out his fantasy video game into the conversation. Tired of the IFs which have little to do with the actual situation. He needs to be slapped out of his autistic-esque BS. I'm not the only one calling him out in his shit, maybe I'm more harsh, but so be it.

 

[zyxt9]

LKP...for once try making a reply that doesn't include the following:

Should
If
2010
2011

Until then, u r living in video game land and I'm not buying it.

 

[lgolfer]

If u have been following this nonstop continual situation, u would see that I am not being a jerk at all but attempted to bring some reality into the conversation only to continually have lkp throw out his fantasy video game into the conversation. Tired of the IFs which have little to do with the actual situation. He needs to be slapped out of his autistic-esque BS. I'm not the only one calling him out in his shit, maybe I'm more harsh, but so be it.

All I'm saying is just make your argument and be done with it. No need to add all the extra bashing. I would say that this is proof of you being a jerk:

"Stop proclaiming your cream dream scenarios as reality. Your posts sound like a hormone infused teen whacking off to Playboy. "

"Put down ur sorcerer hat and wand, stop sniffing ur pixie dust, and wake the fuck up."

 

[zyxt9]

Also, u continue to dismiss the fact avril sucks against the run. U cannot just ignore this blatantly bad part of his game. Focus on the problems otherwise u r doomed to keep making the same mistakes. Avril is a big mistake.

So the fact the lions have continually had injury problems every year means that 2013 they won't have any at all, or at least not to the point they have to sign guys off the street. This despite the FACT they have been signing street guys for years due to injuries. Every year they have done this since mayhew has been in charge. Call it bad luck if u want, but at some point the problem is not having guys who have the strength and conditioning to fill in when starters go down. That is on the coaches, period.

 

[LKP]

Also, u continue to dismiss the fact avril sucks against the run. U cannot just ignore this blatantly bad part of his game. Focus on the problems otherwise u r doomed to keep making the same mistakes. Avril is a big mistake.

So the fact the lions have continually had injury problems every year means that 2013 they won't have any at all, or at least not to the point they have to sign guys off the street. This despite the FACT they have been signing street guys for years due to injuries. Every year they have done this since mayhew has been in charge. Call it bad luck if u want, but at some point the problem is not having guys who have the strength and conditioning to fill in when starters go down. That is on the coaches, period.

I care about pass rush and turnovers forced and playmakers. Avril fits the bill for that. I don't ignore that part of his game I said he was good at rushing the passer. And that's most important. Letting Avril walk you just lose a potential playmaker IMO.

I didn't say they won't have any at all. I say they will have some, a normal amount as in 2nd stringers playing. Broyles, Palmer, Hill, Reiff, Nick Fairley, Sammie Lee Hill, Carey all showed a good amount of depth for the Lions in that case. Plus we got another draft and free agency to add even more depth than that.

 

[zyxt9]

All I'm saying is just make your argument and be done with it. No need to add all the extra bashing. I would say that this is proof of you being a jerk:

"Stop proclaiming your cream dream scenarios as reality. Your posts sound like a hormone infused teen whacking off to Playboy. "

"Put down ur sorcerer hat and wand, stop sniffing ur pixie dust, and wake the fuck up."

Oh, sorry. Didn't mean to offend u with my comments.

I will get to the point.

Avril sucks against the run and teams are exposing him now. Why would we pay him 10 mil when thisbis FACT. As for pass rush, he is average at best there too, forever shooting past the QB and not containing them. Sometimes he gets lucky andnactually gets a sack, but those r the exception and not the rule for him. U can call it a QB hurry if u want, I call it a gain for a first down as that is far more frequently the outcome.

 

[zyxt9]

I care about pass rush and turnovers forced and playmakers. Avril fits the bill for that. I don't ignore that part of his game I said he was good at rushing the passer. And that's most important. Letting Avril walk you just lose a potential playmaker IMO.

I didn't say they won't have any at all. I say they will have some, a normal amount as in 2nd stringers playing. Broyles, Palmer, Hill, Reiff, Nick Fairley, Sammie Lee Hill, Carey all showed a good amount of depth for the Lions in that case. Plus we got another draft and free agency to add even more depth than that.

U r mistaking avril for JPP. For avrils money we can get two solid players therby filling two holes instead of one. Does avril get a sack once in awhile, yes. Does he get a TO once in awhile, yes. But JPP does it consistently while also playing very well vs run. Avril does not deserve the money he will get, regardless of who pays it, that means he is overpaid. The lions cannot afford to overpay anymore than they already do because of their cap numberspaying avril even 75% his asking price means money taken away from other pressing needs like CB and s, not to mention many others.

His style of play hurts the team not only by not defending the run, but financially he prevents the team getting guys who as a whole are better playmakers. It is a team sport and the lions have to put a better team on the field. The wont do that by bringing avril back because of his flaws coupled with cost.

U seem to be under the false impression that avril is an All Pro.

 

[LKP]

U r mistaking avril for JPP. For avrils money we can get two solid players therby filling two holes instead of one. Does avril get a sack once in awhile, yes. Does he get a TO once in awhile, yes. But JPP does it consistently while also playing very well vs run. Avril does not deserve the money he will get, regardless of who pays it, that means he is overpaid. The lions cannot afford to overpay anymore than they already do because of their cap numberspaying avril even 75% his asking price means money taken away from other pressing needs like CB and s, not to mention many others.

His style of play hurts the team not only by not defending the run, but financially he prevents the team getting guys who as a whole are better playmakers. It is a team sport and the lions have to put a better team on the field. The wont do that by bringing avril back because of his flaws coupled with cost.

U seem to be under the false impression that avril is an All Pro.

Avril is a good player. Lions can fit Avril, Houston and Delmas. Plus have the draft to fill other needs and depth. You lose Avril you lose a playmaker. 6 forced fumbles, fumble recovery TD and int for TD. That wins you games in this league. Double digit or near double digit and sacks. And 40 QB hurries in both 2010/2011. That also leads to turnovers and helps the secondary. Avril helps the team much more than he hurts the team. We'll see if the price is right. And the DE market isn't that great this year. They could go young in the draft but that's asking alot of a rookie to be the primary DE playmaker. JPP will cost alot more than Avril as well and is not an option for the Lions unless they draft Ansah and develop him over time. Would I like Michael Bennett or Michael Johnson sure. But they won't be availabe. Idonije I like too but he's old, 1 year at best, Avirl you'll get at least 3 years before his cap number rises.

And you do realize the Giants gave up 4.6 YPC and the Lions 4.5 YPC. So much for JPP saving their run D

 

[Mitchrapp]

Avril is a good player. Lions can fit Avril, Houston and Delmas. Plus have the draft to fill other needs and depth. You lose Avril you lose a playmaker. 6 forced fumbles, fumble recovery TD and int for TD. That wins you games in this league. Double digit or near double digit and sacks. And 40 QB hurries in both 2010/2011. That also leads to turnovers and helps the secondary. Avril helps the team much more than he hurts the team. We'll see if the price is right. And the DE market isn't that great this year. They could go young in the draft but that's asking alot of a rookie to be the primary DE playmaker. JPP will cost alot more than Avril as well and is not an option for the Lions unless they draft Ansah and develop him over time. Would I like Michael Bennett or Michael Johnson sure. But they won't be availabe. Idonije I like too but he's old, 1 year at best, Avirl you'll get at least 3 years before his cap number rises.

And you do realize the Giants gave up 4.6 YPC and the Lions 4.5 YPC. So much for JPP saving their run D

You say they can fit him, Avril, but for how much? I don't know who his agent is but he'll be trying to get 12m initially. So what is your cost idea to fit him in?

 

[lgolfer]

U r mistaking avril for JPP. For avrils money we can get two solid players therby filling two holes instead of one. Does avril get a sack once in awhile, yes. Does he get a TO once in awhile, yes. But JPP does it consistently while also playing very well vs run. Avril does not deserve the money he will get, regardless of who pays it, that means he is overpaid. The lions cannot afford to overpay anymore than they already do because of their cap numberspaying avril even 75% his asking price means money taken away from other pressing needs like CB and s, not to mention many others.

His style of play hurts the team not only by not defending the run, but financially he prevents the team getting guys who as a whole are better playmakers. It is a team sport and the lions have to put a better team on the field. The wont do that by bringing avril back because of his flaws coupled with cost.

U seem to be under the false impression that avril is an All Pro.

Completely agree with this. Well said.

 

[LKP]

You say they can fit him, Avril, but for how much? I don't know who his agent is but he'll be trying to get 12m initially. So what is your cost idea to fit him in?

He will hit the market but will not get 12 million per year. And there is ways to give Avril a 5 year deal that's truly a 3 year deal and fit him with a backloaded contract. All depends on the gurantees. For instance Brandon Carr had 5 year 50 million but a 4.1 million cap number in 2012. Plenty of ways to fit Avril depending on the roster and signing bonuses.

 

[LKP]

Good bet for Avril 5 year 45 million with 15 signing bonus (same as Hali SB).

1 base +3 SB allocation=4 cap number
4 base +3=7 cap number
6 base +3=9 cap number
8 base +3 +2 roster=13 cap number
9 base +3=12 cap number

Realy a 3 year deal or 4 if you restructure year 4. Avril gets 26 million in cash in a 2 year period from the Lions counting 2012. And then 4 and 5 million in years 3 and 4. Very good contract for both.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Good bet for Avril 5 year 45 million with 15 signing bonus (same as Hali SB).

1 base +3 SB allocation=4 cap number
4 base +3=7 cap number
6 base +3=9 cap number
8 base +3 +2 roster=13 cap number
9 base +3=12 cap number

Realy a 3 year deal or 4 if you restructure year 4. Avril gets 26 million in cash in a 2 year period from the Lions counting 2012. And then 4 and 5 million in years 3 and 4. Very good contract for both.

That's some high cap numbers, even 9m cap is too high for him. Even so you assume Avril will be okay with a deal like that. Avril is a dick and will try to get dick money.

And why would Mayhew offer 3-30 last season and then go 5-45 with a big bonus and big caps? That's a big ass increase. What did he do that suddenly made him worth a big deal?

 

[LKP]

That's some high cap numbers, even 9m cap is too high for him. Even so you assume Avril will be okay with a deal like that. Avril is a dick and will try to get dick money.

And why would Mayhew offer 3-30 last season and then go 5-45 with a big bonus and big caps? That's a big ass increase. What did he do that suddenly made him worth a big deal?

Those are not big cap numbers early. He played on 10.6 last year fit into the Lions cap.

Oh so he's not worth that much. Then he will be even easier to resign. Then it will be even better for the Lions.

So he'll hit the market and not get 10 million per a year coming off a bad year. And those are not big cap numbers until year 3 and you could restructure in year 3.

Here's a 5 year 60 million with a restructure

1 +3
4+3
4+5 after restructure of 6 million of the original 10 base
13+5+2=20 in year 4. Either restructure again or cut him and eat 10 million dead money. But by then you have several drafts and cheaper contracts.
Year 5, already cut in year 4.

3 years of Avril at 4,7 and 9 cap hits. That is very reasonable. Hali got 5 year 57 million with a 15 SB. 5 years 60 million is 12 milion per year. But even that I just proved the Lions could fit him. Like I said, he he'll hit the market and be well less. 5 year 45 would be perfect and is less than 3 year 30. 3 year 30 is 10 per, 5 year 45 is 9 per.