Chris Houston out?

[LKP]

oh i get it....it should be a WIN NOW draft every year. Weve taken 20 years to rebuild and in most everyones opinion except yours, LKPs and Tonys....were nowhere close. Theres a bottom line to all of this that you guys fail to see. Were 4-12. We need to resign, sign or draft approximately 12 new starters lol. The only people on this team worth a shit are staff, cj, suh, fairley, reiff and Houston. All of them were 1st round locks except Houston who ive always given mayhew credit for getting.....however, now hes a free agent and might not even be back with the team lol. You can post all the woulda shoulda coulda crap you want to....it doesnt change anything i just wrote.

edit....ill throw tulloch in there. missed him. gratz MM....you have 7 decent players on this team.

Pettigrew, Rob Sims, Burleson (700 yards a year), Delmas, LeShoure and Bell. Gosder if he comes back and Backus is more than solid. 1 sack in 727 attempts, I'll take that from a left tackle. You left a couple people off the list or your judge of talent is terrible. Durant is good in run defense. Avril was good in 2011 and Best was a good player.

Mayhew is the man. The 0-8 finish was a fluke

 

[cheeno]

22-55, 5-19.

 

[mhughes0021]

Pettigrew, Rob Sims, Burleson (700 yards a year), Delmas, LeShoure and Bell. Gosder if he comes back and Backus is more than solid. 1 sack in 727 attempts, I'll take that from a left tackle. You left a couple people off the list or your judge of talent is terrible. Durant is good in run defense. Avril was good in 2011 and Best was a good player.

Mayhew is the man. The 0-8 finish was a fluke

Sims is solid...ill give you that. Backus is fine. Pettigrew hasn't turned out to be as advertised. Theres about 10000 people on this planet that can consistently run a 6 yd curl. Hes not dynamic in the passing game and hes no where near the inline run blocker that he was supposed to be. Durant is fine....but i thought even you were projecting whitehead and/or lewis to start at olb and durant to move on. Stafford throws for 5000 yards.....which means you should have lots of 700 yd wrs. Thats not impressive to me. Lolleshoure. Lolbell. Avril blows. Best is braindead.

 

[zyxt9]

An 0-8 finish is not a fluke, it is a problem that indicates the team quit. Their hunger, passion, and leadership all disappeared.

Excuses? Excuses are for losers, stop making them and demand more...or just keep under achieving and pick up your pink slip.

 

[zyxt9]

22-55, 5-19.

bu, bu, bu, bu, but cheeno, when you break it down there was only the 0-8 end to this year that was a problem. prior to that they were 22-47, 5-11...which is awesome and shows that the 0-8 was an anomaly because at one time they went 10-6....which was NOT the anomaly...get it?

 

[mhughes0021]

bu, bu, bu, bu, but cheeno, when you break it down there was only the 0-8 end to this year that was a problem. prior to that they were 22-47, 5-11...which is awesome and shows that the 0-8 was an anomaly because at one time they went 10-6....which was NOT the anomaly...get it?

again....youre not allowed to make sense when youre arguing with LKP.

 

[LKP]

2011 and first half 2012 is way more relevant to 2013 than 2009 and 2010 shiity records which is a big reason that overall record you posted is so shitty. They are 16 below .500 just from 2009/2010. Millen's fault. And it's 22(2,6,10,4) and 42(14,10,6,12). 16 under from 2009/2010.

2012 second half is a fluke due to injuries. The roster in 2013 will look way more like first half 2012 and hopefully more like 2011. 0 and 8 is a fluke. I expect a lot of 3 and 13 and 4 12 predictions from you fools then if you don't think 0-8 was a fluke.

 

[zyxt9]

2011 and first half 2012 is way more relevant to 2013 than 2009 and 2010 shiity records which is a big reason that overall record you posted is so shitty. 2012 second half is a fluke due to injuries. The roster in 2013 will look way more like first half 2012. 0 and 8 is a fluke. I expect a lot of 3 and 13 predictions from you fools then

wait...2013 will be awesome because it will be similar to first half of 2012. do i have this right? and we are supposed to be excited by that? just want to make sure i have your side of the story accurate here.

now...first half of 2012 was a disaster even at 4-4. last minute comebacks vs bad teams coupled with ST play that was historically bad. THIS is what you point to as inspiration and proof that the Lions will be playoff contenders in 2013? awesome!

as for 2011, they started 6-2 - which is the true anomaly btw - and then went 4-4. another .500 half...awesome!

let us get something clear here: .500 doesn't cut it. that rarely gets a team to the playoffs and highly unlikely will in their division as typically a team making playoffs at 8-8 these days does so as division winner.

your entire position is flawed because you are saying we should be fine based on these historical records. that .500 is somehow exceptional and we have to be using these .500 half seasons as proof the lions will make the playoffs next year. BS.

historically speaking they will need at least 6 wins in first half of 2013 because they have demonstrated repeatedly that they will collapse and have a worse 2nd half than 1st half of the season. so they don't need to be like the first half of 2012, they need to be better than that.

your arguments provide zero confidence that they will make the playoffs, which is an absolute must if MM and JS are going to have any chance of being brought back again.

 

[LKP]

wait...2013 will be awesome because it will be similar to first half of 2012. do i have this right? and we are supposed to be excited by that? just want to make sure i have your side of the story accurate here.

now...first half of 2012 was a disaster even at 4-4. last minute comebacks vs bad teams coupled with ST play that was historically bad. THIS is what you point to as inspiration and proof that the Lions will be playoff contenders in 2013? awesome!

as for 2011, they started 6-2 - which is the true anomaly btw - and then went 4-4. another .500 half...awesome!

let us get something clear here: .500 doesn't cut it. that rarely gets a team to the playoffs and highly unlikely will in their division as typically a team making playoffs at 8-8 these days does so as division winner.

your entire position is flawed because you are saying we should be fine based on these historical records. that .500 is somehow exceptional and we have to be using these .500 half seasons as proof the lions will make the playoffs next year. BS.

historically speaking they will need at least 6 wins in first half of 2013 because they have demonstrated repeatedly that they will collapse and have a worse 2nd half than 1st half of the season. so they don't need to be like the first half of 2012, they need to be better than that.

your arguments provide zero confidence that they will make the playoffs, which is an absolute must if MM and JS are going to have any chance of being brought back again.

The Lions are more of a .500 team RIGHT NOW than 0-8 team based on trends. That's the point. If the Lions stood pat and had some injuries, they would be around 8-8 next year. If they get better (speed back fixed after unlucky injury, better DEs, safety insurance next to Delmas) and stay healthy (like they did in the 6-2 start in 2011), they can challenge for the playoffs.

The only time the Lions stayed very healthy and had uninjured 2nd and 3rd round picks at their disposal they did great. And even then Fairley and Leshoure weren't playing.

And if you're going to dog on the Lions wins in the first half of 2012, how about noting how close 4 losses were at home that could have easily gone the Lions way during the 0-8 streak (Packers,Texans,Colts and Bears). 0-8 was much closer to 4-4 in that stretch and you know it.

 

[zyxt9]

so if they stay healthy they will likely be 8-8.

THAT DOESN'T CUT THE MUSTARD!!!

They need to be at least a 10 win team, and even that might not be enough so they really need to get to 11 or even 12. winning the division is key, that means being above .500 in the division.

when was the last time the Lions won their division? when was the last time they were over .500 in their division?

you are still settling for mediocrity. that is unacceptable as it will not get them into the playoffs and the "award" at the end of the year will be pink slips.

and i do want to clarify something before booger jumps down my throat again. i'm not saying it is impossible or being negative. i'm being realistic and telling like it is based on the comments after the post-season meetings. i want the lions to go all the way, but to do that they need to stop being the same, they need to be better...much better. to do that they will need MM to have a phenomenal offseason in FA and draft. but even more they need to develop better leadership skills and teamwork.

it isn't impossible, but it definitely requires more out of everyone than they have historically shown. and by "more" i do not mean "more of the same" or more .500 half seasons. they need to be above .500 in both halfs. they need to develop leadership and a culture of winning, which also requires the coaches to not make their same old bonehead decisions, especially in terms of clock management and resorting to "prevent" offense and defense. they need to develop an understanding of how to keep their foot on the gas and be aggressive for the entire 60 minutes, never providing a glimmer of hope for their opponents to make a comeback.

so many things to work on, only one short offseason to square things away. not impossible, but based on prior history both recent and long term, not very likely.

 

[LKP]

I agree 8-8 doesn't cut the mustard. I think they are really an 8-8 ball club right now. It may say 4-12 but that's not what they were half way through and they lsot a ton of close games to really good teams. The injuries(Delmas, all weapons but Calvin, DTs) and some players unexpectedly like Stafford, Tulloch and Avril not performing made it 4-12. The recent trends suggest they are .500 ball club dealing some injuries, 6-2 when healthy and 0-8 when very injured playing like 6 playoff teams and a 10-6 Bears team, Zona's D in Arizona is solid too. 2009/2010 don't factor into anything because there was major roster overhaul since then (LBs, Fairey, LeShoure, Broyles, Reiff, secondary).

If Stafford returns to 2011 form, we wont' be 8-8 either. We'll be better.That's the easy way to get back to 10-6.

If Tulloch/Housotn gets their act together into a playmaker again instead of just solid/good players and Delmas stays healthy and they get a stud top 5 DE and Delmas insurance safety in the draft to pair with him, they won't be 8-8 either. Some tweaks need to be made but it's the nature of the NFL.

 

[cheeno]

so if they stay healthy they will likely be 8-8.

THAT DOESN'T CUT THE MUSTARD!!!

They need to be at least a 10 win team, and even that might not be enough so they really need to get to 11 or even 12. winning the division is key, that means being above .500 in the division.

when was the last time the Lions won their division? when was the last time they were over .500 in their division?

you are still settling for mediocrity. that is unacceptable as it will not get them into the playoffs and the "award" at the end of the year will be pink slips.

and i do want to clarify something before booger jumps down my throat again. i'm not saying it is impossible or being negative. i'm being realistic and telling like it is based on the comments after the post-season meetings. i want the lions to go all the way, but to do that they need to stop being the same, they need to be better...much better. to do that they will need MM to have a phenomenal offseason in FA and draft. but even more they need to develop better leadership skills and teamwork.

it isn't impossible, but it definitely requires more out of everyone than they have historically shown. and by "more" i do not mean "more of the same" or more .500 half seasons. they need to be above .500 in both halfs. they need to develop leadership and a culture of winning, which also requires the coaches to not make their same old bonehead decisions, especially in terms of clock management and resorting to "prevent" offense and defense. they need to develop an understanding of how to keep their foot on the gas and be aggressive for the entire 60 minutes, never providing a glimmer of hope for their opponents to make a comeback.

so many things to work on, only one short offseason to square things away. not impossible, but based on prior history both recent and long term, not very likely.

Really good post. My thoughts exactly.

 

[tonyballs]

Sims is solid...ill give you that. Backus is fine. Pettigrew hasn't turned out to be as advertised. Theres about 10000 people on this planet that can consistently run a 6 yd curl. Hes not dynamic in the passing game and hes no where near the inline run blocker that he was supposed to be. Durant is fine....but i thought even you were projecting whitehead and/or lewis to start at olb and durant to move on. Stafford throws for 5000 yards.....which means you should have lots of 700 yd wrs. Thats not impressive to me. Lolleshoure. Lolbell. Avril blows. Best is braindead.

In Pettigrews defense, he was never advertised as a pass-catching TE because he WASN'T a pass-catching TE in college. He was supposedly this great blocker and he's been pretty good at it. He's a safety net for Stafford. Now, if he can just hold onto the fn ball, well then, we might have something...lol.

 

[mhughes0021]

In Pettigrews defense, he was never advertised as a pass-catching TE because he WASN'T a pass-catching TE in college. He was supposedly this great blocker and he's been pretty good at it. He's a safety net for Stafford. Now, if he can just hold onto the fn ball, well then, we might have something...lol.

sure...that's a solid defense. But do you really think hes brought THAT much to the run game that he was worth a mid first round pick at this point? Cause I haven't really seen the run game improve since hes been here. He doesn't really chip or stay in on pass plays....hes always running his little dinky routes in the middle of the field. Hes been a solid player for us...I just don't think hes brought the impact people were hoping for when we drafted him.

 

[LKP]

Pettigrew is a 700 yard a year Tight End. He's a good tight end and worth the pick.

 

[Mitchrapp]

He is definitely worth the pick. He's a solid TE.

 

[Mitchrapp]

sure...that's a solid defense. But do you really think hes brought THAT much to the run game that he was worth a mid first round pick at this point? Cause I haven't really seen the run game improve since hes been here. He doesn't really chip or stay in on pass plays....hes always running his little dinky routes in the middle of the field. Hes been a solid player for us...I just don't think hes brought the impact people were hoping for when we drafted him.

If he does the "dinky routes" in the middle of the field as you say its because the coach tells him to do so. The run game is not on Pettigrew.

 

[mhughes0021]

If he does the "dinky routes" in the middle of the field as you say its because the coach tells him to do so. The run game is not on Pettigrew.

mitch..thats all he can do. hes not a dynamic route runner. Hes not a "pass catching" TE even though he catches a lot of balls for us. Hes an outlet guy that runs dinky routes. Do you ever see him running 30-40 yards down the sidelines like gronk. Or deep crossing routes like aaron hernandez. No....cause he cant.....hes much much slower than those guys and not a very good route runner. He runs 6 yards than turns around.

And LKP...enough with your "hes a 700 yard" thingy lol. We throw for 5000 yards the last couple years. Even if you take out CJs 2k that still leave 3k to split between a handful of guys. Everyone should have 700 yards lol. That is not impressive....at all. Its not a stat worth mentioning in our offense. If this was the cleveland browns...than fine. 700 yds would make him a superstar lol.

 

[LKP]

mitch..thats all he can do. hes not a dynamic route runner. Hes not a "pass catching" TE even though he catches a lot of balls for us. Hes an outlet guy that runs dinky routes. Do you ever see him running 30-40 yards down the sidelines like gronk. Or deep crossing routes like aaron hernandez. No....cause he cant.....hes much much slower than those guys and not a very good route runner. He runs 6 yards than turns around.

And LKP...enough with your "hes a 700 yard" thingy lol. We throw for 5000 yards the last couple years. Even if you take out CJs 2k that still leave 3k to split between a handful of guys. Everyone should have 700 yards lol. That is not impressive....at all. Its not a stat worth mentioning in our offense. If this was the cleveland browns...than fine. 700 yds would make him a superstar lol.

He's one of many reasons we get so many yards. Yards are a good thing. The Lions can move the ball and Pettigrew is good at picking up the 1st down when needed. Hating on Pettigrew is dumb. He has some issues but he's a talented player.

 

[zyxt9]

the problems are he drops too many passes and when he does catch them all the fans are holding their breath praying he doesn't fumble. outside of that stuff coupled with the coaches not using him to max potential in run game, he was an outstanding 3rd round pick.

what's that? we took him in the 1st??? you're...serious? well...interesting. seems there might have been some other necessity that could have been filled following the BPA concept. doesn't seem like a run blocking TE fits in with the BPA concept when constantly sent out on pass routes and the run game hasn't improved, but what do i know.

how MM&Co deemed him as BPA with the 20th overall pick still confuses me. even if he would have been taken by the time lions picked again, sure seems they could have gotten a more pass oriented TE to fit their new passing schemes later in the draft and used the #20 pick to grab a guy able to have a larger overall impact. pett's impact has been average at best in getting 700 yards per season and factoring in his drops and fumbles...especially the fumbles...and deflected passes that turn into INTs.

but some will say i have zero knowledge of the game, all i do is complain, and i need to pick up my purse when i go to log out, so what do i know.