Coronainsanity

[sggatecl]

I do not think you are accounting for all of those people who died after taking the vaccine. Would you say they made a bad choice? I mean, they chose (or maybe strongly encouraged by others) to take the vaccine, and they died. That does not appear to be a good choice, but maybe you can enlighten me on that.

"All those people.." Are you referring to people who died because of a reaction to the vaccine or to people who died of Covid/Covid complications after being vaccinated? I just want to clarify before I respond as one warrants a response and one simply does not.

My only point here is that one person's good choice can be another's bad, and v-v. The problem is the pro-mandate group is applying a binary solution to anyone's choice. If you got vaxxed then you are good and made the right choice, if you did not then you are bad and made the wrong choice.

I'm very pro vaccine. I'm not in favor of mandates. I agree with you that getting the (or any) vaccination isn't for everyone. There are plenty of examples out there.

Having said that, there is a big difference between not getting it because you're severely immunocompromised and not getting getting it because of some stupid political slant or mistrust of 'big pharma'.

When hospitals are filling to capacity, and the majority of those hospitalizations are unvaccinated people, I have a hard time accepting that it wasn't a 'bad choice'. I'm all for these people not getting vaccinated, that's their choice. But do me a solid and stay home. They didn't trust the doctors when they told them to get vaccinated, why do they trust doctors to treat them once they do have it? Stay home. There are plenty of Herman Cain Awards to go around.

 

[tigermud]

Where would you classify those that have already had it, does it really make much sense for those that have already had Covid to also get the vaccine, I say heck no. Natural immunity is far greater than lab created 6 month spike protein injections. IMHO of course.

Then where would you classify people that are just simply really concerned about long term effects and don't trust the science of the day that ultimately changes as more time marches on and those long term effects start to show up. Right or wrong a lot of people perceive themselves to be healthy enough or not in a high risk category and would much rather just get the damn thing and hopefully survive and come out the other end with natural immunity vs regularly scheduled spike injections. For those that make that choice I may even entertain the thought of maybe they should then give up their rights to receive medical care to treat covid at a hospital but the medical community would also have to agree to allow those to obtain things like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine if that is what they want.

CDC advisory panel, concerned about rare side effects tied to J&J vaccine, gives preferential nod to mRNA shots


https://www.statnews.com/2021/12/16...vaccine-gives-preferential-nod-to-mrna-shots/

 

[tigermud]

#1 cause of death 18-45 year olds
Fentanyl
More adults between 18 and 45 died of fentanyl overdoses in 2020 than COVID-19, motor vehicle accidents, cancer and suicide


https://time.com/6128982/fentanyl-pandemic-opioid-epidemic/

No wall to wall Fentanyl crises coverage. Only Covid deaths matter.

 

[Spartanmack]

"All those people.." Are you referring to people who died because of a reaction to the vaccine or to people who died of Covid/Covid complications after being vaccinated? I just want to clarify before I respond as one warrants a response and one simply does not.



I'm very pro vaccine. I'm not in favor of mandates. I agree with you that getting the (or any) vaccination isn't for everyone. There are plenty of examples out there.

Having said that, there is a big difference between not getting it because you're severely immunocompromised and not getting getting it because of some stupid political slant or mistrust of 'big pharma'.

When hospitals are filling to capacity, and the majority of those hospitalizations are unvaccinated people, I have a hard time accepting that it wasn't a 'bad choice'. I'm all for these people not getting vaccinated, that's their choice. But do me a solid and stay home. They didn't trust the doctors when they told them to get vaccinated, why do they trust doctors to treat them once they do have it? Stay home. There are plenty of Herman Cain Awards to go around.

What about not getting it because you're not at risk of serious illness from the virus? Especially since it doesn't prevent you from getting or spreading the virus - i.e. getting the vaccine doesn't protect others from you. Why take an experimental drug with no long term history and risk the negative side effects like myocarditis and pericarditis if all the virus will likely do to you is make you mildly sick for a few days? And why give it to kids if it doesn't change their likelihood of a negative outcome, keep them from gettign or spreading the virus but puts them at risk for problems down the road? It make absolutely zero sense to give this vaccine to kids. dr. Peter McCullah, epidemeologist and expert on viruses and vaccines (trained at the University of Michigan, and prior to corona insanity and his opposition to this mass vaccine madness, a widely recognized expert in the field) doesn't think anyone under 30 should get the vaccine unless they're severely immunocompromised.

 

[zyxt9]

"All those people.." Are you referring to people who died because of a reaction to the vaccine or to people who died of Covid/Covid complications after being vaccinated? I just want to clarify before I respond as one warrants a response and one simply does not.



I'm very pro vaccine. I'm not in favor of mandates. I agree with you that getting the (or any) vaccination isn't for everyone. There are plenty of examples out there.

Having said that, there is a big difference between not getting it because you're severely immunocompromised and not getting getting it because of some stupid political slant or mistrust of 'big pharma'.

When hospitals are filling to capacity, and the majority of those hospitalizations are unvaccinated people, I have a hard time accepting that it wasn't a 'bad choice'. I'm all for these people not getting vaccinated, that's their choice. But do me a solid and stay home. They didn't trust the doctors when they told them to get vaccinated, why do they trust doctors to treat them once they do have it? Stay home. There are plenty of Herman Cain Awards to go around.

I was referring to those who died or had extremely bad reaction(s) to the vaccine.

For example, the boosters are reported to result in experiencing similar symptoms to the 2nd dose. For some, that reaction was pretty extreme. If these people decide they do not wish to experience those same reactions (or potentially worse), they should be allowed a medical exemption.

JnJ is under review regarding a booster due to the number of reported blood clotting issues that were experienced after the first. Again, this is not every case, but it was of a sufficient numbers to warrant a review.

If someone decides they would rather not be vaccinated in full or in part, they should have that right. Their body, their choice. Ironic how Liberals use that mantra to fit their abortion agenda but fail to apply it to Covid. (And yes, I am aware of the equal irony on the part of Conservatives as I am a more centered person who is willing to call out such hypocrisy from both sides).

 

[zyxt9]

I would not say they made a bad choice. You have to work with the information available and good advice isn't a guarantee. If a truck knocks a car off a bridge, into a river, and someone drowns because they were wearing a seatbelt they couldn't get undone, nobody says wearing a seatbelt was a bad decision. ...unless maybe they believe the seatbelt industry is run by deep state lizard people trying to steal our freedom by restricting our movement in cars.

The difference with your argument is the individual could potentially remove the seat belt, even cut it apart if they have a tool in their vehicle accessible to do that.

You cannot cut the vaccine out of the body, or in any way reverse it, once it is injected.

Additionally, you are referencing something that is an accident. A forced vaccine mandate is absolutely intentional. And the very arguments used to support it, such as limiting spread, have been repeatedly debunked scientifically based on evidence.

 

[zyxt9]

#1 cause of death 18-45 year olds
Fentanyl
More adults between 18 and 45 died of fentanyl overdoses in 2020 than COVID-19, motor vehicle accidents, cancer and suicide


https://time.com/6128982/fentanyl-pandemic-opioid-epidemic/

No wall to wall Fentanyl crises coverage. Only Covid deaths matter.

What is really funny is we now have elected officials attempting to push beyond the legalization of pot to now allow decriminalization of all drugs. They are more concerned that they might potentially get some tax revenue while reducing the prison population while discounting all the deaths that will happen. OHHH... yep, there it is... Liberals once again pushing something that has potential to kill people. Population reduction anyone??? It is the best way to reduce global warming, pollution, negative impacts to the environment, etc., so it makes sense from that perspective.

 

[byco42]

Columbia U has released a study that concludes VAERS is under reporting deaths by a factor of 20.

Abstract below:

Accurate estimates of COVID vaccine-induced severe adverse event and death rates are critical for risk-benefit ratio analyses of vaccination and boosters against SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus in different age groups. However, existing surveillance studies are not designed to reliably estimate life-threatening event or vaccine-induced fatality rates (VFR). Here, regional variation in vaccination rates was used to predict all-cause mortality and non-COVID deaths in subsequent time periods using two independent, publicly available datasets from the US and Europe (month-and week-level resolutions, respectively).

Vaccination correlated negatively with mortality 6-20 weeks post-injection, while vaccination predicted all-cause mortality 0-5 weeks post-injection in almost all age groups and with an age-related temporal pattern consistent with the US vaccine rollout. Results from fitted regression slopes (p<0.05 FDR corrected) suggest a US national average VFR of 0.04% and higher VFR with age (VFR=0.004% in ages 0-17 increasing to 0.06% in ages >75 years), and 146K to 187K vaccine-associated US deaths between February and August, 2021. Notably, adult vaccination increased ulterior mortality of unvaccinated young (<18, US; <15, Europe).

Comparing our estimate with the CDC-reported VFR (0.002%) suggests VAERS deaths are underreported by a factor of 20, consistent with known VAERS under-ascertainment bias. Comparing our age-stratified VFRs with published age-stratified coronavirus infection fatality rates (IFR) suggests the risks of COVID vaccines and boosters outweigh the benefits in children, young adults and older adults with low occupational risk or previous coronavirus exposure. We discuss implications for public health policies related to boosters, school and workplace mandates, and the urgent need to identify, develop and disseminate diagnostics and treatments for life-altering vaccine injuries.​

If true that could mean up to 380,000 unreported deaths.

Don?t expect the MSM to broadcast this information.

 

[tigermud]

What is really funny is we now have elected officials attempting to push beyond the legalization of pot to now allow decriminalization of all drugs. They are more concerned that they might potentially get some tax revenue while reducing the prison population while discounting all the deaths that will happen. OHHH... yep, there it is... Liberals once again pushing something that has potential to kill people. Population reduction anyone??? It is the best way to reduce global warming, pollution, negative impacts to the environment, etc., so it makes sense from that perspective.

If you think like a eugenicist who believes the world is over populated and thy has the moral authority to 'save the earth' from the useless eater 'human virus' then nearly everything that is occurring makes perfect sense. It's nothing new, history is full of people and groups in positions of power who think just like that.

 

[Michchamp]

#1 cause of death 18-45 year olds
Fentanyl
More adults between 18 and 45 died of fentanyl overdoses in 2020 than COVID-19, motor vehicle accidents, cancer and suicide


https://time.com/6128982/fentanyl-pandemic-opioid-epidemic/

No wall to wall Fentanyl crises coverage. Only Covid deaths matter.

I've been hearing about it for a while, along with the deaths from oxy and other opiate addictions. been ongoing for years.

Still... fentanyl OD's aren't contagious, like Coronavirus.

What is really funny is we now have elected officials attempting to push beyond the legalization of pot to now allow decriminalization of all drugs. They are more concerned that they might potentially get some tax revenue while reducing the prison population while discounting all the deaths that will happen. OHHH... yep, there it is... Liberals once again pushing something that has potential to kill people. Population reduction anyone??? It is the best way to reduce global warming, pollution, negative impacts to the environment, etc., so it makes sense from that perspective.

This is really an entirely different topic, but prohibiting drugs hasn't worked. have you been in a cave for the last 40 years?

They never really should have been prohibited in the first place... instead addiction should be treated as what it is, a physical and mental illness.

And as long as anyone can use drugs recreationally, why not let them? we let them drink themselves to death, we let them buy guns with almost no restrictions, and firearm accidents and deaths are increasing (a lot), and car accidents leave tens of thousands maimed and dead every year.

 

[Spartanmack]

Columbia U has released a study that concludes VAERS is under reporting deaths by a factor of 20.

Abstract below:

Accurate estimates of COVID vaccine-induced severe adverse event and death rates are critical for risk-benefit ratio analyses of vaccination and boosters against SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus in different age groups. However, existing surveillance studies are not designed to reliably estimate life-threatening event or vaccine-induced fatality rates (VFR). Here, regional variation in vaccination rates was used to predict all-cause mortality and non-COVID deaths in subsequent time periods using two independent, publicly available datasets from the US and Europe (month-and week-level resolutions, respectively).

Vaccination correlated negatively with mortality 6-20 weeks post-injection, while vaccination predicted all-cause mortality 0-5 weeks post-injection in almost all age groups and with an age-related temporal pattern consistent with the US vaccine rollout. Results from fitted regression slopes (p<0.05 FDR corrected) suggest a US national average VFR of 0.04% and higher VFR with age (VFR=0.004% in ages 0-17 increasing to 0.06% in ages >75 years), and 146K to 187K vaccine-associated US deaths between February and August, 2021. Notably, adult vaccination increased ulterior mortality of unvaccinated young (<18, US; <15, Europe).

Comparing our estimate with the CDC-reported VFR (0.002%) suggests VAERS deaths are underreported by a factor of 20, consistent with known VAERS under-ascertainment bias. Comparing our age-stratified VFRs with published age-stratified coronavirus infection fatality rates (IFR) suggests the risks of COVID vaccines and boosters outweigh the benefits in children, young adults and older adults with low occupational risk or previous coronavirus exposure. We discuss implications for public health policies related to boosters, school and workplace mandates, and the urgent need to identify, develop and disseminate diagnostics and treatments for life-altering vaccine injuries.​

If true that could mean up to 380,000 unreported deaths.

Don?t expect the MSM to broadcast this information.

On Joe Rogan's podcast last week, Peter McCullah said something to the effect of if this vaccine was in proper clinical trials, it would have been shut down when deaths caused were in the single digits.

He also made the point that if the drugs were going to be mandated, they should first achieve full FDA approval and have their emergency use status removed, which apparently is what provides them immunity from wrongful death and other lawsuits.

 

[Michchamp]

On Joe Rogan's podcast last week, Peter McCullah said something to the effect of if this vaccine was in proper clinical trials, it would have been shut down when deaths caused were in the single digits.

He also made the point that if the drugs were going to be mandated, they should first achieve full FDA approval and have their emergency use status removed, which apparently is what provides them immunity from wrongful death and other lawsuits.

I didn't actually die from it. that was just a joke.

I don't believe anyone has.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I didn't actually die from it. that was just a joke.

I don't believe anyone has.

Wait, what?

The CDC itself acknowledges a minimum of nine blood clot deaths from the J&J.

I got the J&J vaccine. I got the booster. I didn?t die from it.

But some people have.

It?s a risk assessment that everyone should be entitled to make for themself.

The doctor referred to on the Rogan podcast is absolutely right ? under normal circumstances, this vaccine roll out would have been shut down pretty early on.

 

[tigermud]

sgg maybe can confirm or not but I believe it was the Delta running rampant here in MI in Nov/Dec this year. The Covid test results didn't say just said Covid. But it's pretty much all Delta?

I'm also aware of 3 of 3 now that had the original Covid in 2020 that ended up with close proximity family members whom got it this Nov around the contacts that had it in 2020 the entire time without any attempts to self quarantine in home and did NOT get come down with Delta, negative test and all and this was a full year or more later from the time they had the original. all 3 not vaccinated in 2020 or in 2021

 

[tigermud]

The Mandating Of Psychotic Liberal Authoritarianism
https://banned.video/watch?id=61bca421fe1f86271889614d

 

[tigermud]

Vaccine mandate has and will continue to weak our national defense, border security, hospital staffing, supply chains, small business, economy etc. If you wanted to do everything possible to run a super power into the ground just keep doing what your doing Buck. Meanwhile China and Russia have been strengthening ties in case any didn't notice yet.

 

[zyxt9]

I've been hearing about it for a while, along with the deaths from oxy and other opiate addictions. been ongoing for years.

Still... fentanyl OD's aren't contagious, like Coronavirus.



This is really an entirely different topic, but prohibiting drugs hasn't worked. have you been in a cave for the last 40 years?

They never really should have been prohibited in the first place... instead addiction should be treated as what it is, a physical and mental illness.

And as long as anyone can use drugs recreationally, why not let them? we let them drink themselves to death, we let them buy guns with almost no restrictions, and firearm accidents and deaths are increasing (a lot), and car accidents leave tens of thousands maimed and dead every year.

Exactly my point... so why are you so opposed to letting people not get the vaccine even if it means they die from Covid?

You cannot use the baseless argument that vaccines reduce spread, that is complete balderdash.

 

[Spartanmack]

I didn't actually die from it. that was just a joke.

I don't believe anyone has.

I must have missed that post - never said or read you died from it but people definitely have.

 

[Spartanmack]

sgg maybe can confirm or not but I believe it was the Delta running rampant here in MI in Nov/Dec this year. The Covid test results didn't say just said Covid. But it's pretty much all Delta?

I'm also aware of 3 of 3 now that had the original Covid in 2020 that ended up with close proximity family members whom got it this Nov around the contacts that had it in 2020 the entire time without any attempts to self quarantine in home and did NOT get come down with Delta, negative test and all and this was a full year or more later from the time they had the original. all 3 not vaccinated in 2020 or in 2021

I'm assuming I had Delta as well since that is the dominant strain in NJ right now, but can't say for sure at this point - I don't think I will ever know as it didn't seem like a priority to the health care professionals to find out given the treatment was the same regardless of the strain.

An unvaccinated coworker and his family got it in January. Had a T Cell test this fall and his antibodies were still off the charts. Says he's gonna have the test again before the holidays just to get his extended family to stop freaking out and pushing him to get a vaccine that will provide him with less protection and risk giving him myo or pericarditis.

 

[Spartanmack]

I've been hearing about it for a while, along with the deaths from oxy and other opiate addictions. been ongoing for years.

Still... fentanyl OD's aren't contagious, like Coronavirus.



This is really an entirely different topic, but prohibiting drugs hasn't worked. have you been in a cave for the last 40 years?

They never really should have been prohibited in the first place... instead addiction should be treated as what it is, a physical and mental illness.

And as long as anyone can use drugs recreationally, why not let them? we let them drink themselves to death, we let them buy guns with almost no restrictions, and firearm accidents and deaths are increasing (a lot), and car accidents leave tens of thousands maimed and dead every year.

Addiction is treated as a physical and mental illness and the reason we shouldn't let people abuse hard drugs is because of the devestating societal costs to it. The line about the jails being full of drug users is a myth. Most people in jail for drugs are in there because they're dealing drugs, which in case you've been living in a cave the last 40 years is a brutal, deadly business operated by murderous sociopaths.

it's funny thatt you bemoan the existence of rich kids who don't have to work, calling them leaches on society even tough they are entirely self sustaining but you're all for the government subsidizing and supporting addicts shooting up all day. It's pretty amazing.