Coronainsanity

[Spartanmack]

Now that the Beijing Olympics are going on, our media establishment is working overtime to find ways to criticize China's Zero COVID policies. Tough to stigmatize a country that actively protects its people from a pandemic, instead of letting them die lest the wheels of the economy slow down for a second, so it looks like they're doing their usual thing of introducing lots of weasel words "China's CONTROVERSIAL COVID policy..." or "Experts have questioned the cost of China's COVID policy..." of course without presenting any debate or even naming the experts.


On that Chinese death toll... Worldometer reports it as 4,636 deaths out of a total of 106,073 cases, and it looks like after the initial wave, they pretty much crushed it, up until Omicron when their case numbers started increasing again. Still, taking those at face value, their policy has to be considered largely a success, especially relative to the US, which would be catastrophic by comparison. If you compare them, you see we have allowed 900,000 largely avoidable deaths, instead of locking down like China did, quaratining travelers, testing and tracing every positive case, and enforcing home quaratines with jail if people violate them.

Whereas in the US, we now have 907,190 deaths out of 75,578,076 cases.

If China is "hiding" cases & deaths... just how many do you think they've concealed?

The Chinese population is ~1,448,171,000 (as of this post)

The U.S. population is ~334,105,000 (ditto)

We've lost 0.002% of our population to COVID.

If China's policies are completely ineffective, or as some allege, worse than the US, that would have to mean at least the same proportion of their population, if not more, have died. Which would be 3,932,195 people. How they managed to hide all those bodies...? It would probably be even more than that, since they live largely in more densely populated cities than we do.

When they say China's COVID policies are controversial, they're using weasel words to stigmatize the benevolent CCP but when Joe Rogan has a conversation with a doctor who is actively treating COVID patients who says we're mishandling the pandemic, "controversial" isn't a strong enough word for such dangerous heresy.

I'm sure China is being completely transparent about the impact of COVID on it's population, which is why they were so open and welcoming to the outside world wanting to investigate the origins of the virus. Oh wait...still, we should definitely trust China and follow their model. It's not like they covered up the murder of 10s of millions of people in the 20th century - obviously they would have no idea how to hide upwards of 3mm COVID deaths. They would never just deny it, then not let anyone report on it, or have any outsiders verify any of it - because unlike the rest of the world, China has a spotless reputation for only doing things to protect their people.

 

[Michchamp]

so blue collar workers wanting to work to earn money so they can feed their families are doing so against their own interests? It must be those damn Koch brothers again.

I can't believe even you don't see how stupid some of the shit you say is.

Right... the average worker would rather risk their life doing a shit job for bosses and owners that could give a shit about them and their families, than get assistance to stay home during a fucking pandemic.



That's why there was (some... not enough) public assistance paid to businesses to pay wages, and direct welfare to families that still couldn't get it.



How many "essential workers" got sick and missed work, or sick & died? How many more would have if we hadn't even done the half-ass lockdowns the 1% opposed and organized opposition to?

 

[Spartanmack]

Right... the average worker would rather risk their life doing a shit job for bosses and owners that could give a shit about them and their families, than get assistance to stay home during a fucking pandemic.



That's why there was (some... not enough) public assistance paid to businesses to pay wages, and direct welfare to families that still couldn't get it.



How many "essential workers" got sick and missed work, or sick & died? How many more would have if we hadn't even done the half-ass lockdowns the 1% opposed and organized opposition to?

how many? probably way less than you think for both questions. People who were allowed to work have throughout the pandemic and were fine for the most part. People wanted to work but couldn't had their livelihoods ruined in the process - that much is indisputable. And it's also indisputable that most of it was completely unnecessary - we could have protected the vulnerable population and not destroy the economy with the moronic policies you're pushing, that didn't work. The fact that you refuse to see this reality doesn't make your wrongheaded view correct, it just proves your ignorance.

 

[Michchamp]

When they say China's COVID policies are controversial, they're using weasel words to stigmatize the benevolent CCP but when Joe Rogan has a conversation with a doctor who is actively treating COVID patients who says we're mishandling the pandemic, "controversial" isn't a strong enough word for such dangerous heresy.

I'm sure China is being completely transparent about the impact of COVID on it's population, which is why they were so open and welcoming to the outside world wanting to investigate the origins of the virus. Oh wait...still, we should definitely trust China and follow their model. It's not like they covered up the murder of 10s of millions of people in the 20th century - obviously they would have no idea how to hide 3mm COVID deaths. They would never just deny it, then not let anyone report on it, or have any outsiders verify any of it.

I'm sorry, if Rogan has on all the doctors that disagree with the anti-vaxx crackpots making the rounds (and getting paid for their appearances? or selling books?) and allows a fair debate, then you might have a point. These guys are charlatans, and are as self-interested - if not MORE - in selling their viewpoints than Big Pharma is in selling their vaccines.

And if we know how many died in China, (whatever the number, and many died in famines, not direct murder), how can you claim they covered it up?

We have people IN CHINA, visiting, traveling back and forth... amazing none of them have seen anything or blown the whistle on China hiding COVID deaths once in the last 3 years. You'd think with our own government desperate to downplay what a disaster their own policies have been, any evidence to furhter that narrative would be front page news here.

 

[Spartanmack]

I'm sorry, if Rogan has on all the doctors that disagree with the anti-vaxx crackpots making the rounds (and getting paid for their appearances? or selling books?) and allows a fair debate, then you might have a point. These guys are charlatans, and are as self-interested - if not MORE - in selling their viewpoints than Big Pharma is in selling their vaccines.

LOL, all these doctors who have no personal interest in the vaccines are self-interested and just doing it for the money. How exactly does that work? How much is Joe Rogan paying them? But the doctors taking their marching orders from Big Pharma and CDC and NIH officials profiting off of the vaccines don't? the doctors and hospitals who have to toe the line in order to get reimbursement from the government and insurance companies and research money aren't the conflicted ones. Their opinions are needed for balance because the debate is only taking place on the Joe Rogan podcast? Fuck that is dumb.

And if we know how many died in China, (whatever the number, and many died in famines, not direct murder), how can you claim they covered it up?

We don't know, we have to estimate because there hasn't been an accounting. And the people didn't just die in famines - they were starved by the communist government, i.e. they were murdered, just more slowly and painfully.

We have people IN CHINA, visiting, traveling back and forth... amazing none of them have seen anything or blown the whistle on China hiding COVID deaths once in the last 3 years. You'd think with our own government desperate to downplay what a disaster their own policies have been, any evidence to furhter that narrative would be front page news here.

Yeah, it's shocking that all those people visiting family aren't reporting on all the bodies piling up in morgues and wherever they're being disposed of, especially since China is such an open society and that's what people do when they visit family - sneak into government facilities count bodies and then report back on what they find because it's the best way to get China to welcome them back to see their loved ones. It's not like the Chinese government would restrict access to facilities or information, or could control the news. How sill of me to think they're not being fully transparent.

 

[tigermud]

Point being...?

Point being your going to be on the wrong side of history before all is said and done.

 

[mhughes0021]

Now that the Beijing Olympics are going on, our media establishment is working overtime to find ways to criticize China's Zero COVID policies. Tough to stigmatize a country that actively protects its people from a pandemic, instead of letting them die lest the wheels of the economy slow down for a second, so it looks like they're doing their usual thing of introducing lots of weasel words "China's CONTROVERSIAL COVID policy..." or "Experts have questioned the cost of China's COVID policy..." of course without presenting any debate or even naming the experts.


On that Chinese death toll... Worldometer reports it as 4,636 deaths out of a total of 106,073 cases, and it looks like after the initial wave, they pretty much crushed it, up until Omicron when their case numbers started increasing again. Still, taking those at face value, their policy has to be considered largely a success, especially relative to the US, which would be catastrophic by comparison. If you compare them, you see we have allowed 900,000 largely avoidable deaths, instead of locking down like China did, quaratining travelers, testing and tracing every positive case, and enforcing home quaratines with jail if people violate them.

Whereas in the US, we now have 907,190 deaths out of 75,578,076 cases.

If China is "hiding" cases & deaths... just how many do you think they've concealed?

The Chinese population is ~1,448,171,000 (as of this post)

The U.S. population is ~334,105,000 (ditto)

We've lost 0.002% of our population to COVID.

If China's policies are completely ineffective, or as some allege, worse than the US, that would have to mean at least the same proportion of their population, if not more, have died. Which would be 3,932,195 people. How they managed to hide all those bodies...? It would probably be even more than that, since they live largely in more densely populated cities than we do.

i read up on how China monitors their outbreaks. What they are doing with apps and technology is pretty incredible. Here it would be the government tracking you. But there you could literally be green lighted to take a flight...then show up and the app will turn you red cause you were in close contact with someone that tested positive. They will control outbreaks much better than we ever can...1) cause their people are forced to listen 2) they have better technology than we do 3) their population isnt made up of mostly Caucasians that are worried about their rights when we ask them to simply put a mask on. " i cant breath thru this thing that air gets thru!....err meh gerrrd"

 

[tigermud]

nearly every time I read a Hughes post I lose a little bit more hope for humanity.

 

[mhughes0021]

nearly every time I read a Hughes post I lose a little bit more hope for humanity.

You understand China has like 100000000000x more people than we do. Saying they are all wrong and you are right is less of a hope for humanity than anything i could ever say.

PS...Ill paint you a picture of why you should lose hope for humanity. Humanity cant even figure out how to control a virus outbreak that causes less than 1% of the population to die....we have no hope for when something worse hits. Cant figure out where it came from. Cant figure out how to control the spread. Cant agree on how to manage the severly ill with medications. Dont have enough PPE when billionaires have been "preparing" for this day for decades. Coronavirus proved humanity fails...at basically everything. Its one crowning achievement was a quickly developed vaccine lmao....howd that go over?

 

[zyxt9]

The opioid epidemic and lockdown suicides seem to be wrecking havoc on Russia as well.

Too bad Putin was not included in those numbers.

 

[tinselwolverine]

You understand China has like 100000000000x more people than we do. Saying they are all wrong and you are right is less of a hope for humanity than anything i could ever say.

PS...Ill paint you a picture of why you should lose hope for humanity. Humanity cant even figure out how to control a virus outbreak that causes 1% of the population to die...we have no hope for when something worse hits. Cant figure out where it came from. Cant figure out how to control the spread. Cant agree on how to manage the severly ill with medications. Dont have enough PPE when billionaires have been "preparing" for this day for decades. Coronavirus proved humanity fails...at basically everything. Its one crowning achievement was a quickly developed vaccine lmao....howd that go over?

I don?t know when you?re being hyperbolic and when you?re just making shit up because you have no idea what you?re talking about.

That is 20 times more than the actual percentage of the worlds population has died.

 

[tigermud]

You understand China has like 100000000000x more people than we do. Saying they are all wrong and you are right is less of a hope for humanity than anything i could ever say.

• Data show COVID-19 deaths have been wildly exaggerated by counting people who died from other conditions but had a positive COVID test within 28 days of their death
• U.K. data released in response to a Freedom of Information Act request show that the number of deaths between January 2020 and the end of September 2021 in England and Wales, where COVID-19 was the sole cause of death, was just 17,371 ? not 137,133 as reported
• Of the 17,371 people who had COVID-19 as the sole cause of death, 13,597 were 65 or older. The average age of death in the U.K. from COVID in 2021 was 82.5 years
• Compare that to the projected life expectancy in the U.K., which is 79 for men and 82.9 for women. This hardly constitutes an emergency, least of all for healthy school- and working-age individuals
• Estimates suggest there?s been an extra 50,000 cancer deaths over the past 18 months ? deaths that normally would not have occurred. Delayed diagnosis and inability to receive proper treatment due to COVID restrictions are thought to be primary reasons for this

Early on in the COVID pandemic, people suspected that the deaths attributed to the infection were exaggerated. There was plenty of evidence for this. For starters, hospitals were instructed and incentivized to mark any patient who had a positive COVID test and subsequently died within a certain time period as a COVID death.
At the same time, we knew that the PCR test was unreliable, producing inordinate amounts of false positives. Now, the truth is finally starting to come out and, as suspected, the actual death toll is vastly lower than we were led to believe.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UHvwWWcjYw

 

[tinselwolverine]

• Data show COVID-19 deaths have been wildly exaggerated by counting people who died from other conditions but had a positive COVID test within 28 days of their death
• U.K. data released in response to a Freedom of Information Act request show that the number of deaths between January 2020 and the end of September 2021 in England and Wales, where COVID-19 was the sole cause of death, was just 17,371 ? not 137,133 as reported
• Of the 17,371 people who had COVID-19 as the sole cause of death, 13,597 were 65 or older. The average age of death in the U.K. from COVID in 2021 was 82.5 years
• Compare that to the projected life expectancy in the U.K., which is 79 for men and 82.9 for women. This hardly constitutes an emergency, least of all for healthy school- and working-age individuals
• Estimates suggest there?s been an extra 50,000 cancer deaths over the past 18 months ? deaths that normally would not have occurred. Delayed diagnosis and inability to receive proper treatment due to COVID restrictions are thought to be primary reasons for this

Early on in the COVID pandemic, people suspected that the deaths attributed to the infection were exaggerated. There was plenty of evidence for this. For starters, hospitals were instructed and incentivized to mark any patient who had a positive COVID test and subsequently died within a certain time period as a COVID death.
At the same time, we knew that the PCR test was unreliable, producing inordinate amounts of false positives. Now, the truth is finally starting to come out and, as suspected, the actual death toll is vastly lower than we were led to believe.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UHvwWWcjYw

We?ve been talking about this from the beginning. I don?t have a lot of time but I did a quick perusal and byco and I begin a discussion about it at #198, early April 2020.

 

[tomdalton22]

You understand China has like 100000000000x more people than we do. Saying they are all wrong and you are right is less of a hope for humanity than anything i could ever say.

PS...Ill paint you a picture of why you should lose hope for humanity. Humanity cant even figure out how to control a virus outbreak that causes less than 1% of the population to die....we have no hope for when something worse hits. Cant figure out where it came from. Cant figure out how to control the spread. Cant agree on how to manage the severly ill with medications. Dont have enough PPE when billionaires have been "preparing" for this day for decades. Coronavirus proved humanity fails...at basically everything. Its one crowning achievement was a quickly developed vaccine lmao....howd that go over?

one of the reasons we couldn't find out how and where Covid came from is because your favorite country wouldn't let us.

 

[Spartanmack]

You understand China has like 100000000000x more people than we do. Saying they are all wrong and you are right is less of a hope for humanity than anything i could ever say.

PS...Ill paint you a picture of why you should lose hope for humanity. Humanity cant even figure out how to control a virus outbreak that causes less than 1% of the population to die....we have no hope for when something worse hits. Cant figure out where it came from. Cant figure out how to control the spread. Cant agree on how to manage the severly ill with medications. Dont have enough PPE when billionaires have been "preparing" for this day for decades. Coronavirus proved humanity fails...at basically everything. Its one crowning achievement was a quickly developed vaccine lmao....howd that go over?

For those who rested on their laurels after finishing in the top half of their 3rd grade math class, China has 1.39B people, kinda hard for them to have 100Bx more people than we do. It's roughly 4.25x. And they're not all wrong - it's highly unlikely that all 1.39B think alike. In case you're unaware, China is a single party (communist) dictatorship which tightly controls every aspect of the economy and society. And that party is really controlled by a single person. So the number of Chinese who are actually wrong could be and very likely is much lower than 1.39B.

One of the reasons we have had so many severely ill for whom treatment is too late and/or ineffective is because we were and still are denying them effective early treatment therapeutics and calling people who spoke out about this issue "dangerous" science deniers spreading misinformation. And now that studies are coming out proving those doctors right, the powers that be are still calling them dangerous and denying facts right before their eyes.

 

[tigermud]

One of the reasons we have had so many severely ill for whom treatment is too late and/or ineffective is because we were and still are denying them effective early treatment therapeutics and calling people who spoke out about this issue "dangerous" science deniers spreading misinformation. And now that studies are coming out proving those doctors right, the powers that be are still calling them dangerous and denying facts right before their eyes.

One of the biggest surprises I've had throughout this ordeal is the # of people that are so willing to just bow down to authoritarian control and not question anything they are told, as long as the word science and expert is used. I'm also still baffled by those that recover from covid now have natural immunity, then just can't wait till 4 weeks is up so they can go get that next booster. I'm just totally baffled by this.

 

[tomdalton22]

One of the biggest surprises I've had throughout this ordeal is the # of people that are so willing to just bow down to authoritarian control and not question anything they are told, as long as the word science and expert is used. I'm also still baffled by those that recover from covid now have natural immunity, then just can't wait till 4 weeks is up so they can go get that next booster. I'm just totally baffled by this.

people on both sides are effectively doing the same thing...they believe what supports their own narrative. You do the same.

 

[tigermud]

people on both sides are effectively doing the same thing...they believe what supports their own narrative. You do the same.

And may one sides view never be forced onto the other.

 

[tinselwolverine]

For those who rested on their laurels after finishing in the top half of their 3rd grade math class, China has 1.39B people, kinda hard for them to have 100Bx more people than we do. It's roughly 4.25x. And they're not all wrong - it's highly unlikely that all 1.39B think alike. In case you're unaware, China is a single party (communist) dictatorship which tightly controls every aspect of the economy and society. And that party is really controlled by a single person. So the number of Chinese who are actually wrong could be and very likely is much lower than 1.39B.

One of the reasons we have had so many severely ill for whom treatment is too late and/or ineffective is because we were and still are denying them effective early treatment therapeutics and calling people who spoke out about this issue "dangerous" science deniers spreading misinformation. And now that studies are coming out proving those doctors right, the powers that be are still calling them dangerous and denying facts right before their eyes.

That?s around what I came up with off the top of my head. I?m going to give hughes credit for probably having been hyperbolic, but I guess is he likely doesn?t know the population of either country, wouldn?t know how to find out, and wouldn?t have known the equation to employ to figure out the correct percentage.

 

[Spartanmack]

people on both sides are effectively doing the same thing...they believe what supports their own narrative. You do the same.

except that there's no authoritarian control on one side of the argument. and more importantly, I think there are a lot of people opposed to the mandate who believe the vaccines are appropriate, safe and effective for certain people.

I'm sure there are intractable people who believe the vaccines are mind control or tracking devices or whatever and sadly people with reasonable objections to these COVID policies are getting lumped in with the very small minority of conspiracy whackos. But those people have no power and no media giants carrying water for them. On the other hand, the people who think everyone should get vaccinated regardless of need or possible adverse side affects have a lot of the power and huge chunks of the media doing their bidding.