Corporations may get permanent Tax cuts

[Sbee]

where are all of these countries where these things are free? Maybe we should all move to these places.

It's much easier to provide all of those services for your people when you don't spend 54% of your discretionary federal spending on defense. Ireland spends about 2% of it's budget on defense for example.

That's why a lot of these countries can spend more on their population while we have 53000 troops in germany

 

[Sbee]

I agree with Tom dalton the us corp tax rates are too damn high

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/07/5417...e-the-highest-corporate-tax-rate-in-the-world

Lower them and repatriate..and one year later I'd still vote for trump today and thank god every morning shillary didn't win. The only thing I'm not happy about is sessions and his old out of touch postion on the drug war and MJ I would like to see trump fire him and replace him with someone who is on the right side of that..I'd then go back into all the MJ stocks hand over fist if that where to occur.

read the article you posted, it shows the statutory rate at 39.5 but the effective rate is only 18.6%. It also says that corporate tax rates were 2.2% of GDP, compared to an OECD average of 2.8%.

 

[sggatecl]

Nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation released a report saying the legislation would add $1 trillion to the deficit in the next 10 years, even with tax-driven economic growth projections factored in.

Bill is still going to pass. So much for being fiscally conservative.

 

[tomdalton22]

Nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation released a report saying the legislation would add $1 trillion to the deficit in the next 10 years, even with tax-driven economic growth projections factored in.

Bill is still going to pass. So much for being fiscally conservative.

hopefully cuts on entitlements are coming down the road

 

[sggatecl]

hopefully cuts on entitlements are coming down the road

I don't think there is enough there to come close to making up the amount but if the GOP are going to start somewhere, I'm sure that's where it will be.

 

[tomdalton22]

I don't think there is enough there to come close to making up the amount but if the GOP are going to start somewhere, I'm sure that's where it will be.

that chart surprises me. More money spent on healthcare than any other segment...and pensions second.

 

[sggatecl]

that chart surprises me. More money spent on healthcare than any other segment...and pensions second.

Most of the charts you normally see that have defense at 56% are only including discretionary spending and not mandatory spending.

This article explains it pretty well I think:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/aug/17/facebook-posts/pie-chart-federal-spending-circulating-internet-mi/

I still think defense spending is wildly inappropriate but I think it should be represented accurately.

 

[tomdalton22]

Most of the charts you normally see that have defense at 56% are only including discretionary spending and not mandatory spending.

This article explains it pretty well I think:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/aug/17/facebook-posts/pie-chart-federal-spending-circulating-internet-mi/

I still think defense spending is wildly inappropriate but I think it should be represented accurately.

good article. I assume in the chart that you posted, the pensions portion was actually social security?

 

[tinselwolverine]

good article. I assume in the chart that you posted, the pensions portion was actually social security?

That's what I was thinking...and a huge percentage of health care is probably Medicare...


EDIT: In a pie chart in the PolitiFact article...what looks to be like the same pie chart identifies it as social security...

 

[Sbee]

that chart surprises me. More money spent on healthcare than any other segment...and pensions second.

old people are expensive

 

[Sbee]

Nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation released a report saying the legislation would add $1 trillion to the deficit in the next 10 years, even with tax-driven economic growth projections factored in.

Bill is still going to pass. So much for being fiscally conservative.

The party has changed, it's not about being fiscally conservative, it's about taking care of the wealthy and corporations. Fiscally conservative used to mean balanced budgets, smaller government, and possibly raising taxes as opposed to running a deficit. G HW Bush lost to Clinton in part to the "no new taxes" line, he did what was prudent vs what was politically popular and he paid for it.

The Tea party is silent when a Republican is in the office, just like the anti war crowd looks the other way when Obama orders drone strikes that kill thousands of civilians. deficits only matter when a Democrat is president.

 

[Spartanmack]

read the article you posted, it shows the statutory rate at 39.5 but the effective rate is only 18.6%. It also says that corporate tax rates were 2.2% of GDP, compared to an OECD average of 2.8%.

that's interesting but not really relevant. Not every corporation, especially those that aren't big multinationals can take advantage of the loopholes that generate that average tax rate. Also, marginal tax rates are far more important than average tax rates when you're talking about investing in new projects. And corp taxes as a % of GDP are also meaningless. Do you think there are a lot of C-suite execs saying, let's do this project in the US where tax rates are 35%, almost triple what they'd be if we were headquartered in Ireland. If anyone asks why we're pissing all this money away, we can just say "hey dummy, US corp taxes as a % of GDP are among the lowest in the world!"

 

[Sbee]

that's interesting but not really relevant. Not every corporation, especially those that aren't big multinationals can take advantage of the loopholes that generate that average tax rate. Also, marginal tax rates are far more important than average tax rates when you're talking about investing in new projects. And corp taxes as a % of GDP are also meaningless. Do you think there are a lot of C-suite execs saying, let's do this project in the US where tax rates are 35%, almost triple what they'd be if we were headquartered in Ireland. If anyone asks why we're pissing all this money away, we can just say "hey dummy, US corp taxes as a % of GDP are among the lowest in the world!"

the 35% is meaningless, nobody pays that. of fortune 500 companies over the last 10 years, utilities average 3.1%, telecommunications, oil and gas paid 11.5%, internet services 15%. only healthcare and retail paid over 30. 40% of the profitable fortune 500 companies had at least one year in the last 10 when they paid no taxes.

Our effective rates aren't really a deterrent to doing business in the US.

 

[Spartanmack]

The party has changed, it's not about being fiscally conservative, it's about taking care of the wealthy and corporations. Fiscally conservative used to mean balanced budgets, smaller government, and possibly raising taxes as opposed to running a deficit. G HW Bush lost to Clinton in part to the "no new taxes" line, he did what was prudent vs what was politically popular and he paid for it.

The Tea party is silent when a Republican is in the office, just like the anti war crowd looks the other way when Obama orders drone strikes that kill thousands of civilians. deficits only matter when a Democrat is president.

the party changed a long time ago - there's no real difference between mainstream republicans and mainstream dems other than the lip service they pay to entitlements. But it's not true that the tea party is silent when a republican is in the office. Just look at how frequently the Freedom or Liberty Caucus locks horns with the old guard. Granted they're more likely to compromise with Rs than they are with Ds and you tend to not hear as much about them because the press is far too busy blowing a fit every time Trump gets out off bed, but they're definitely not silent.

 

[Spartanmack]

the 35% is meaningless, nobody pays that. of fortune 500 companies over the last 10 years, utilities average 3.1%, telecommunications, oil and gas paid 11.5%, internet services 15%. only healthcare and retail paid over 30. 40% of the profitable fortune 500 companies had at least one year in the last 10 when they paid no taxes.

Our effective rates aren't really a deterrent to doing business in the US.

that is absolutely not true. plenty of companies pay that rate. The fortune 500 are the big multinationals I mentioned in my post, there are lot more than 500 companies in America.

also, according to the CBO, the marginal average tax rate in the US for corporations is 29% 3rd highest in the G20, the average corp tax rate you quoted (18.6%) is 4th highest in the G20. That's simply not competitive.

https://taxfoundation.org/cbo-report-compares-us-corporate-tax-g20/

 

[Michchamp]

LOL, taxes on rich people are too high, and here's a link to a tax lobby funded by the Koch's and ALEC that will tell you more about that.

 

[turok]

LOL, taxes on rich people are too high, and here's a link to a tax lobby funded by the Koch's and ALEC that will tell you more about that.

Well....from a purely sociopath standpoint, by those Murkin patriots who care only about how well that their personal investment portfolios are performing, any tax on big business would be viewed with eyes askance. Plus there would be NO mention of why no leap in wages and jobs from tax-cuts dating back to Saint Ronnie, or our beyond bloated by hundreds of billions military/defense budget....b/c of using their oft-repeated and lame excuse of our increasingly threatened freedumbs. Like hiring a pyromaniac to guard your home and possessions from burglars.

Shouldn't income taxes spent on defense, be prorated based upon how much each payer has to lose in assets and property, from a full-scale zombie pockyclips, or gawd forbid, a massive sea-air-ground invasion/occupation by mooselamb terrists?

 

[tomdalton22]

Shouldn't income taxes spent on defense, be prorated based upon how much each payer has to lose in assets and property, from a full-scale zombie pockyclips, or gawd forbid, a massive sea-air-ground invasion/occupation by mooselamb terrists?

I don't think you want to start prorating things based on amount of taxes a person pays. That might not work out very well.

 

[Spartanmack]

LOL, taxes on rich people are too high, and here's a link to a tax lobby funded by the Koch's and ALEC that will tell you more about that.

taxes on everyone are too high and the link has a table from the CBO that ranks corp tax rates by country. Are you disputing that CBO data because that's the only thing I said about the link - I didn't even read the article because the editorial content isn't relevant, just the data in the table. So again, are you disputing the CBO data or are you just doing more hand waiving and making irrelevant points in an attempt to dismiss actual facts offhand because you can't make a substantive case against actual facts?

 

[Spartanmack]

Well....from a purely sociopath standpoint, by those Murkin patriots who care only about how well that their personal investment portfolios are performing, any tax on big business would be viewed with eyes askance. Plus there would be NO mention of why no leap in wages and jobs from tax-cuts dating back to Saint Ronnie, or our beyond bloated by hundreds of billions military/defense budget....b/c of using their oft-repeated and lame excuse of our increasingly threatened freedumbs. Like hiring a pyromaniac to guard your home and possessions from burglars.

Shouldn't income taxes spent on defense, be prorated based upon how much each payer has to lose in assets and property, from a full-scale zombie pockyclips, or gawd forbid, a massive sea-air-ground invasion/occupation by mooselamb terrists?

So where are all the mentions of how wages and jobs leap when taxes go up or are set at levels higher than other countries? You do realize that the economy is a multi-variable system correct? And corporate taxes haven't been cut much since St. Ronnie and what little they have been cut, they haven't been cut to levels that would make the US competitive on a relative basis with other countries.