Could Urban be FIRED?

[Michchamp]

He's kinda right; I mean I don't agree these institutions were set up to enable child molesters or wifebeaters.

but they've been designed to crank out $$$ and anything that stood in the way of that was steamrolled, without any concern beyond keeping the dollars flowing in RIGHT NOW.

At MSU they openly cited the amount of money Lou anna simon's tenure was bringing in, as a defense to initially retaining her. and the money is not just in tickets and licensing revenue; everyone - even alumni - gives more when teams are winning. which is stupid, but for some reason, people don't write checks and say "thanks for doing the right thing."

"distractions" are buried by (almost) any means necessary, and only come out when someone in the media - without access - takes the time to dig for a story. and with the way newspapers have been gutted by private equity, there's less and less actual journalism.

I don't know whether or not as individuals we've gotten less ethical, but I do know that these institutions bring in more money relative to decades past, and I think there's more pressure on people to "do the wrong thing" so to speak.

I do think unless there's a conscious effort to prioritize ethics by the boards of directors or trustees, that organizations such as these weed out anyone with a conscience when they look at short term revenue as an end in itself.

"How much money do you make?" is the only question they ask, or care about. inevitably, the leader/executive/manager willing to do ANYTHING to raise that number, including committing fraud or turning a blind eye to a serial child abuser to protect a winning coach, wins out.

 

[TheVictors]

So... wow. I've gone from expecting Meyer to get a slap on the wrist to now expecting him to be fired. just read the McMurphy post on FB.

The whole thing is even uglier than I thought. Even if you want to argue that some of it was embellished or that we don't know "Zach Smith's side"... with this story out in the public, it's tough to see how OSU can continue to keep Meyer on the sideline without also adopting Darth Vader as their mascot and changing their name to "The WifeBeaters."

I've been driving around SoCal much of the week and listening to non-ESPN sports radio and everyone from Bruce Feldman to Pat Forde, Colin Cowherd and other, local LA sports guys like Petros Papadakis think URB is done at ohio state and that the Admin leave is just a transitional step towards termination of he and others on his staff.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I've been driving around SoCal much of the week and listening to non-ESPN sports radio and everyone from Bruce Feldman to Pat Forde, Colin Cowherd and other, local LA sports guys like Petros Papadakis think URB is done at ohio state and that the Admin leave is just a transitional step towards termination of he and others on his staff.

Has anyone ever actually come back from administrative leave or something like it? I can?t think of anyone.

 

[Gulo Blue]

He's kinda right; I mean I don't agree these institutions were set up to enable child molesters or wifebeaters.

but they've been designed to crank out $$$ and anything that stood in the way of that was steamrolled, without any concern beyond keeping the dollars flowing in RIGHT NOW.

At MSU they openly cited the amount of money Lou anna simon's tenure was bringing in, as a defense to initially retaining her. and the money is not just in tickets and licensing revenue; everyone - even alumni - gives more when teams are winning. which is stupid, but for some reason, people don't write checks and say "thanks for doing the right thing."

"distractions" are buried by (almost) any means necessary, and only come out when someone in the media - without access - takes the time to dig for a story. and with the way newspapers have been gutted by private equity, there's less and less actual journalism.

I don't know whether or not as individuals we've gotten less ethical, but I do know that these institutions bring in more money relative to decades past, and I think there's more pressure on people to "do the wrong thing" so to speak.

I do think unless there's a conscious effort to prioritize ethics by the boards of directors or trustees, that organizations such as these weed out anyone with a conscience when they look at short term revenue as an end in itself.

"How much money do you make?" is the only question they ask, or care about. inevitably, the leader/executive/manager willing to do ANYTHING to raise that number,
including fraud, wins out.

I agree with all of that. But I think saying MSU, OSU, and Penn State were designed for this sort of thing also helps people to just keep on doing it. Things have changed as you point out that could be amplifying the motivations, but churches have this problem, the government has this problem, universities, news organizations, Hollywood...I think everywhere there's money or power we now know there's an opportunity for people to behave this way. Even if there are plenty of good people at the organization. If you use language that suggests that this happens where they designed for it, it fails to capture the reality which is that it happens wherever insufficient action is taken to prevent it. It makes it seem like these things are avoidable so long as you don't take action to allow it to happen. Organizations need to be more proactive than that.

 

[TheVictors]

Has anyone ever actually come back from administrative leave or something like it? I can?t think of anyone.

that was sort of the inference; that Admin leave just buys time for the school to work things out in terms of severance of service and who may also be implicated in the situation ...assistants, etc.


Weren't Bobby Petrino and the guy at Baylor both also put on Admin leave ...as well as JoePa?

 

[tinselwolverine]

that was sort of the inference; that Admin leave just buys time for the school to work things out in terms of severance of service and who may also be implicated in the situation ...assistants, etc.


Weren't Bobby Petrino and the guy at Baylor both also put on Admin leave ...as well as JoePa?

I think so. With paternal I think it happened really fast.

Something like an administrative leave was announced and then Paterno countered with an announcement that kind of implied he was going to ignore the administrative leave and retire at the end of the season and very quickly there after his firing was announced by the school.

 

[Michchamp]

that was sort of the inference; that Admin leave just buys time for the school to work things out in terms of severance of service and who may also be implicated in the situation ...assistants, etc.


Weren't Bobby Petrino and the guy at Baylor both also put on Admin leave ...as well as JoePa?

it's a way to manage liability.

they can't fire the guy until they're at 100%. he could have a counterclaim for breach of contract if anything doesn't pan out. but leaving him actively in the role when they're on notice would be negligent at best.

I can't think of a similar case when someone came back from administrative leave.

with the amount of media scrutiny around these high profile guys, the "investigation" is largely a formality, since the reporting gets most of the facts out there by the time they get suspended

but The Duke lacrosse, and Rolling stone UVA Rape stories are examples of why you need to verify the reporting is accurate before moving on it...

other factors:
if multiple sources are running with it, chances are better that SOMEONE vetted the underlying facts.

also, if the target of the investigation has the resources to hire and sue for defamation, newsroom editors are a lot more careful...

 

[sggatecl]

That would be a real kick in the bucknuts if the two greatest coaches in Ohio State history were fired for being proponents of physical assault and/or abuse.

 

[Michchamp]

Preseason coaches poll just came out: OSU @ #3 with one first place vote.

wonder how that will change if these Vegas odds on who will coach OSU this fall pan out...

some of these names... Schiano, Kevin Wilson, Jim Tressel (!!!) Les Miles (lol) RichRod (YES!!!!) Lane Kiffin... Chris Ash.

or extreme long shots: Jim Harbaugh or Nick Saban.

 

[Gulo Blue]

FYI, those Vegas odds are roughly equivalent to 33% Urban stays/66% Urban gets fired.

 

[TheVictors]

it's a way to manage liability.

they can't fire the guy until they're at 100%. he could have a counterclaim for breach of contract if anything doesn't pan out. but leaving him actively in the role when they're on notice would be negligent at best.

I can't think of a similar case when someone came back from administrative leave.

with the amount of media scrutiny around these high profile guys, the "investigation" is largely a formality, since the reporting gets most of the facts out there by the time they get suspended

but The Duke lacrosse, and Rolling stone UVA Rape stories are examples of why you need to verify the reporting is accurate before moving on it...

other factors:
if multiple sources are running with it, chances are better that SOMEONE vetted the underlying facts.

also, if the target of the investigation has the resources to hire and sue for defamation, newsroom editors are a lot more careful...

Agree 100% on every point


And add Rece Davis and Greg McElroy as 'experts' who also think Urbz is gone

 

[Michchamp]

The corner osu painted themselves into is fitting: couldn't name Schiano interim HC b/c of the whole Penn St thing, and Kevin Wilson was rumored to have been let go by IU for ignoring player injuries and rushing kids back (why else would IU have fired him?)

So the two guys on staff who had HC experience are out. you have to put the younger, and less experienced Ryan Day in charge of both of them. Wilson is 56, Schiano is 52. Day is 39.

 

[rumseyhouse77]

Preseason coaches poll just came out: OSU @ #3 with one first place vote.

wonder how that will change if these Vegas odds on who will coach OSU this fall pan out...

some of these names... Schiano, Kevin Wilson, Jim Tressel (!!!) Les Miles (lol) RichRod (YES!!!!) Lane Kiffin... Chris Ash.

or extreme long shots: Jim Harbaugh or Nick Saban.

Wow! This is all happening so fast! I think it is more likely OSU would rehire Tressel than they would hire Miles or RR (wasn't he fired by Arizona for sexual misconduct?). No way Jim or Saban go to OSU. Hey, what about Hoke? What about Dantonio???

 

[Gulo Blue]

Wow! This is all happening so fast! I think it is more likely OSU would rehire Tressel than they would hire Miles or RR (wasn't he fired by Arizona for sexual misconduct?). No way Jim or Saban go to OSU. Hey, what about Hoke? What about Dantonio???

What about John Harbaugh?

 

[rumseyhouse77]

What about John Harbaugh?

Ha! Wouldn't that be a kick?! The Game would become The Battle of the Brothers.

 

[Michchamp]

OMFG, in April 2018 OSU and Meyer negotiated a contract extension that included this clause (link):

But Meyer’s new contract requires him to report certain things. Under the terms of the deal, Meyer can be fired for cause, and not collect his buyout, if he does this (bold for emphasis):

Failure by Coach to promptly report to Ohio State’s Deputy Title IX Coordinator — Athletics or Ohio State’s Title IX Coordinator any known violations of Ohio State’s Sexual Misconduct Policy (including, but not limited to, sexual harassment, sexual assault, sexual exploitation, intimate violence and stalking) that involve any student, faculty, or staff or that is in connection with a university sponsored activity or event. For purposes of this section ... a “known violation” shall mean a violation or an allegation of a violation of Title IX that Coach is aware of or has reasonable cause to believe is taking place or may have taken place.​

​

Did OSU's AD know about Zach Smith when they negotiated this, or were they just being prudent in light of the MSU scandal?

EDIT: didn't see Gulo already got to this in post #31

 

[rumseyhouse77]

a friend of mine pointed out that Shelley Meyer is also a registered nurse and clinical professor at OSU's nursing school.

I'm not sure if that meant she had a duty to report this herself.

the more that comes out about this, the worse and worse it looks.

As I understand it Title IX requires all university employees to report these sorts of incidents involving students, staff, faculty, etc. However, in this case since the employee was not the one being abused I am not sure this would apply.

 

[rumseyhouse77]

OMFG, in April 2018 OSU and Meyer negotiated a contract extension that included this clause (link):

But Meyer?s new contract requires him to report certain things. Under the terms of the deal, Meyer can be fired for cause, and not collect his buyout, if he does this (bold for emphasis):

Failure by Coach to promptly report to Ohio State?s Deputy Title IX Coordinator ? Athletics or Ohio State?s Title IX Coordinator any known violations of Ohio State?s Sexual Misconduct Policy (including, but not limited to, sexual harassment, sexual assault, sexual exploitation, intimate violence and stalking) that involve any student, faculty, or staff or that is in connection with a university sponsored activity or event. For purposes of this section ... a ?known violation? shall mean a violation or an allegation of a violation of Title IX that Coach is aware of or has reasonable cause to believe is taking place or may have taken place.​

​

Did OSU's AD know about Zach Smith when they negotiated this, or were they just being prudent in light of the MSU scandal?

Another WOW in this mess!!

 

[hungry]

Dantonio to OSU

Meyer to MSU

 

[TheVictors]

Dantonio ....that would be interesting.