Detroit Lions FA Thread

[Mitchrapp]

You talk about our injured were worst than the Packers. No idea who had more, you could take all the injuries and they don't add up to Aaron Rodgers.

 

[LKP]

Unless an injury happens. What if Tate gets hurt. Is our season din the drain because we lost our #2 WR?

A well built team can take an injury. Greenbay lost their best player still made the playoffs. we see what happens when we play without our best CJ.

Green Bay went 2-5-1 without Rodgers. Lions went 0-2 without Calvin and he was limited in the Giants loss. Detroit was more injured than the other team in many of their losses.

It was never just Burleson losing Burleson. It was Calvin and Burleson Week 5, Calvin and Pettigrew and Broyles Week 17 ,Burleson and a bunch of defensive players and Bell in the 4th against Pittsburgh (27 should have been enough if not for all the defensive injuries), a damn blizzard without Waddle and Bush

 

[LKP]

You talk about our injured were worst than the Packers. No idea who had more, you could take all the injuries and they don't add up to Aaron Rodgers.

And they went 2-5-1 without Rodgers. They didn't overcome that and win a bunch of games. They went 6-2 with Rodgers. Lions were 6-3 at one point with Stafford.

 

[LKP]

Detroit was cost wins, Green Bay was cost wins and Chicago too. All 3 teams are 10 plus win teams. Very tough division.

 

[LKP]

And the Lions/Packers game Week 5. Green Bay was a much healthier team. They had Rodgers and Cobb and Finley and Matthews, everyone but Heyward. Lions were without Calvin and Burleson. That game is the difference between 8-8 Lions winning division and 7-8-1 Pack out in the cold.

 

[LKP]

And I did track the injuries head to head for the Lions. Many times the Lions were the more injured team. And that is all that matters in costing Detroit wins.


Cards and Bucs were only more injured team than Detroit at the time.

 

[Mitchrapp]

We suck if a WR causes us to go from better than suck to suck..I don't care who he is..

 

[LKP]

We suck if a WR causes us to go from better than suck to suck..I don't care who he is..

Well wasn't just one WR. It was Calvin/Burleson/Waddle in one and Calvin/Pettigrew/Waddle in another. Plus the whole road division games are tough thing.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Well wasn't just one WR. It was Calvin/Burleson/Waddle in one and Calvin/Pettigrew/Waddle in another. Plus the whole road division games are tough thing.

Nate was better when be was hurt. Outside one game he sucked last season. Waddle struggling at the end of the season. And CJ missed two games but we lost 9.

 

[mhughes0021]

Do you have any links showing 2012 numbers? Because I bet we were very "unlucky" that year too.

I know on a message board extreme opinions give people something to talk about, but saying the Lions right now are more talented than the Seahawks or even as talented as the Seahawks is absolutely ridiculous and any NFL analyst would agree. Also, your injury argument is about as stupid as it gets. If the Lions had decent depth, then the injuries wouldn't matter as much. The Packers and Bears were more affected by injuries during their entire season than the Lions. Lastly, if the Lions are always "unlucky," there's usually a correlation as to why they're unlucky, like bad depth.

At the same time, Hughes is putting Mayhew in a no win situation when he says Mayhew has done an awful job in free agency. Hughes has said he likes the Tate signing if we get another WR in the draft, but then bashes Mayhew for the Tate signing immediately afterwards (we needed 2 starting WRs no matter what). We resign Bell, who anyone who watched the Lions this year would agree Bell is vital to the Lions (he's more of an every down running back than Bush is), and then says the Lions have done nothing in free agency. And saying Mayhew should've gotten more cap room by extending Suh by now is stupid since Suh only recently got an agent.

I just don't understand why people love to spend so much time arguing extreme positions, when in reality it's almost always in between. For LKP, I hope the Lions win the Super Bowl this year, but I'm not expecting it and won't be holding my breath. For Hughes, hopefully the Lions sign a safety before the draft, but you are correct that the Lions are relying on the draft for several starters, which is very risky. Overall, I hope the Lions sign Clemons in free agency still and then have a great draft. That's my hope at this point.

i guess I should be more clear....which is hard to do when I explain my position as much as ive had to do. I like tate as a player. But I don't like the signing cause we had very little money and spent it all on him. Which imo still doesn't address the thing we need most in this offense....a threat opposite calvin. I think tate is very burlesonesque as a player. Younger....sure. but production wise I see him as being the same player. So....while I agree wr is a need. I would have spent what very little money we had and spent it on all the defensive holes we have. Me and lkp obviously disagree on this point. He thinks we have no holes. I see glaring holes at DE, S, OLB and we need upgrades at CB. Any one of those could have been very easiliy addressed in FA. WR depth in the draft means we could have got an equivalent talent to tate via draft and he would have cost 30 mil cheaper. Those are the types of decisions you HAVE to make when you rank 31st in managing your cap. That's the way you need to be thinking. But our GM spent all his money and trying yet another WR. dwill, broyles, young, Thomas, durham....now tate. when will the madness end?!! That's just names over the last couple years.....how can you fuck up that many times in a matter of years??? its sad....

now explain to me why the position I take is extreme? Is it not factual that he has tried and failed miserably at adding talent at WR? Is it not factual that we are near the worst team in the league at managing our cap? Are we not basically the exact same team as last year that our Stafford led team could not beat out mccown or Flynn led teams to win the division? Is it extreme to say those things?....or just what happened?

so while homers continue to get excited that mayhew brought all the same guys back ....ill say....why the fuck are we bringing all the same guys back when they won 7 games in a shitty division?

 

[lgolfer]

i guess I should be more clear....which is hard to do when I explain my position as much as ive had to do. I like tate as a player. But I don't like the signing cause we had very little money and spent it all on him. Which imo still doesn't address the thing we need most in this offense....a threat opposite calvin. I think tate is very burlesonesque as a player. Younger....sure. but production wise I see him as being the same player. So....while I agree wr is a need. I would have spent what very little money we had and spent it on all the defensive holes we have. Me and lkp obviously disagree on this point. He thinks we have no holes. I see glaring holes at DE, S, OLB and we need upgrades at CB. Any one of those could have been very easiliy addressed in FA. WR depth in the draft means we could have got an equivalent talent to tate via draft and he would have cost 30 mil cheaper. Those are the types of decisions you HAVE to make when you rank 31st in managing your cap. That's the way you need to be thinking. But our GM spent all his money and trying yet another WR. dwill, broyles, young, Thomas, durham....now tate. when will the madness end?!! That's just names over the last couple years.....how can you fuck up that many times in a matter of years??? its sad....

now explain to me why the position I take is extreme? Is it not factual that he has tried and failed miserably at adding talent at WR? Is it not factual that we are near the worst team in the league at managing our cap? Are we not basically the exact same team as last year that our Stafford led team could not beat out mccown or Flynn led teams to win the division? Is it extreme to say those things?....or just what happened?

so while homers continue to get excited that mayhew brought all the same guys back ....ill say....why the fuck are we bringing all the same guys back when they won 7 games in a shitty division?

"I would have spent what very little money we had and spent it on all the defensive holes we have." How many holes could we have filled with the money we gave Tate? We gave him 6 mil a year. Last I checked, that's enough for one good defensive player, not 4. Even if you add what we gave Pettigrew (4 mil), maybe we have enough to sign 2 defensive players, but it adds TE to the glaring need list and we're forced to take a WR and TE in 2 of the first 3 rounds.

"WR depth in the draft means we could have got an equivalent talent to tate via draft and he would have cost 30 mil cheaper." So you want the Lions to roll with Calvin and 2 rookie WRs? That sounds like a great plan! (sarcasm) Not to mention that we'd have to use 2 of our first 4 draft picks to take the 2 WRs.

I completely agree that we currently have glaring needs at safety, DE, an upgrade at CB, and the need for one more good WR. I don't know why you think there is a glaring need for an OLB??? Palmer only plays 1/3 of our defensive plays and he played pretty well. If we're planning on using a 3rd linebacker more often, then I'd say it's a bigger need, but since many teams use 3 WRs so often, the nickel CB often replaces the 3rd LB.

And of the WRs you listed: dwill, broyles, young, Thomas, durham, it's obvious that Tate is much better than any of them.

 

[mhughes0021]

Well wasn't just one WR. It was Calvin/Burleson/Waddle in one and Calvin/Pettigrew/Waddle in another. Plus the whole road division games are tough thing.

if losing calvin for PART of 2 games, losing an aged veteran WR that doesn't produce to the point where we cut him, and losing an UDFA rookie RT are the reasons why we lost 9 games????? well shit this team is paper thin! No HOLES ANYWHERE! Super bowl bitches!!!!! your so fucking contradicting its pathetic lol....

 

[mhughes0021]

"I would have spent what very little money we had and spent it on all the defensive holes we have." How many holes could we have filled with the money we gave Tate? We gave him 6 mil a year. Last I checked, that's enough for one good defensive player, not 4. Even if you add what we gave Pettigrew (4 mil), maybe we have enough to sign 2 defensive players, but it adds TE to the glaring need list and we're forced to take a WR and TE in 2 of the first 3 rounds.

"WR depth in the draft means we could have got an equivalent talent to tate via draft and he would have cost 30 mil cheaper." So you want the Lions to roll with Calvin and 2 rookie WRs? That sounds like a great plan! (sarcasm) Not to mention that we'd have to use 2 of our first 4 draft picks to take the 2 WRs.

I completely agree that we currently have glaring needs at safety, DE, an upgrade at CB, and the need for one more good WR. I don't know why you think there is a glaring need for an OLB??? Palmer only plays 1/3 of our defensive plays and he played pretty well. If we're planning on using a 3rd linebacker more often, then I'd say it's a bigger need, but since many teams use 3 WRs so often, the nickel CB often replaces the 3rd LB.

And of the WRs you listed: dwill, broyles, young, Thomas, durham, it's obvious that Tate is much better than any of them.

6 mil a year for tate could have been spent on a number of defensive players in FA this year. Never said we were going to fill all our holes this FA. Mayhew has fucked this team up so bad we can afford to fill out the roster in FA. Nor do I think we should . I would suggest drafting better so we don't have to fill any holes in FA.....but hes only done that once since hes been here (last year) so I cant really count on that. I did word it poorly....I didn't mean spend the 6 mil on ALL the holes we have. I meant it like pick one or two of the several holes and spend it on them so were not going into the draft with so many needs.

Yes...I feel we should have drafted a WR. I think quality talent will be there as far down as round 3 at WR. Yes I think a rd 3 rookie can produce close to as much as Tate can if given equal opportunity.

agree about olb. While it does need to be upgraded, I also view it as a down the list need. Its still a need nonetheless. We need playmakers on defense...our defense is awful at creating turnovers....year after year after year. While LKP just chalks it up to bad luck....I feel you make your own luck and its a direct correlation to not having much talent. So instead of having a mediocre talent like Palmer starting at olb then pulling him off the field 2/3s of the plays so a mediocre talent like Bentley can come in. Wouldn't it be nice if we could just have a superior talent at olb that can stay on the field all downs and cover TEs on 3rd down, make plays, and cause turnovers and havoc all over the field? Teams do have those guys you know.....

Why is it obvious to you that tate is better than all of those previous options? He was a 2nd round pick just like most of them. He hasn't produced much throughout his career like most of them. ON a contract year (something I never trust) all the stars aligned and the seahawks had 2 major injuries at starting WR which enabled him to catch the ball for 800+ yards for the first time in his career. That doesn't bother you even a little bit? He wouldn't have even seen the field last year if Rice and harvin were healthy.....barely at all would have seen the field. And we offer him one of the higher WR contracts in FA due to 1 year of ok production. Now, I love the way he plays....tenacity, heart and blocking ability hopefully is contagious throughout the locker room. I do like him as a player. 1 year of being semi productive and he gets a deal similar to decker?...I think we reached and overpaid for an obvious need but still didn't fill the even bigger need....an impact player opposite calvin.

 

[motown1958]

if losing calvin for PART of 2 games, losing an aged veteran WR that doesn't produce to the point where we cut him, and losing an UDFA rookie RT are the reasons why we lost 9 games????? well shit this team is paper thin! No HOLES ANYWHERE! Super bowl bitches!!!!! your so fucking contradicting its pathetic lol....

I don't think blaming injuries is a good point at all because compared to our division we remained one of the healthies. Having CJ hurt all season was a huge impact however since he just wasn't the same player. To many drops from all the shitty wrs on the team was also big. But this team has ZERO leaders. I think the coaching was absolutely terrible down the stretch and the inability to manage the game sucked. There are holes on this team some of them are pretty bad because I just don't see enough quality DEs on the roster and we have a huge hole next to Quinn in the secondary. The CBs are all about hoping they play better because we didn't resign the best corner on the team last year. So will Houston bounce back??? who knows. Will Slay step up? I hope so. Will Bentley be more consistent? Hopefully. This team has a lack of leadership and I put that on Stafford. Tulloch had the defense playing high most of the season along with Suh because they really didn't cost us games late in the season. But that "potent" offense was shit all season. You can't have that many fumbles and interceptions and expect to win. So Hughes for the first time I am starting to see your point. But I don't blame Mayhew, I blame the terrible coaches who didn't make players accountable.

 

[mhughes0021]

I don't think blaming injuries is a good point at all because compared to our division we remained one of the healthies. Having CJ hurt all season was a huge impact however since he just wasn't the same player. To many drops from all the shitty wrs on the team was also big. But this team has ZERO leaders. I think the coaching was absolutely terrible down the stretch and the inability to manage the game sucked. There are holes on this team some of them are pretty bad because I just don't see enough quality DEs on the roster and we have a huge hole next to Quinn in the secondary. The CBs are all about hoping they play better because we didn't resign the best corner on the team last year. So will Houston bounce back??? who knows. Will Slay step up? I hope so. Will Bentley be more consistent? Hopefully. This team has a lack of leadership and I put that on Stafford. Tulloch had the defense playing high most of the season along with Suh because they really didn't cost us games late in the season. But that "potent" offense was shit all season. You can't have that many fumbles and interceptions and expect to win. So Hughes for the first time I am starting to see your point. But I don't blame Mayhew, I blame the terrible coaches who didn't make players accountable.

coaching directly cost us like 2 games last year and a couple the year before that. I still blame mayhew for that. He extended Schwartz and co. Schwartz should have been gone a year ago and maybe we'd be on an upswing by now. But again mayhew blows his wad for no apparent reason and keeps Shorts longer than he should have.

 

[inkfreq]

coaching directly cost us like 2 games last year and a couple the year before that. I still blame mayhew for that. He extended Schwartz and co. Schwartz should have been gone a year ago and maybe we'd be on an upswing by now. But again mayhew blows his wad for no apparent reason and keeps Shorts longer than he should have.

Hold up there amigo...

It's already been widely reported that Mayhew wanted to fire Schwartz a year ago, and William Clay Ford Jr. wouldn't allow it because he didn't want to eat $12M in a coaches salary.

So, you can blame Mayhew for a whole lot of stuff, but you cannot blame him for keeping the coach longer than he should have, because he tried to fire him. You can blame Ford for that one, but there's no sense in beating a dead... owner.

 

[inkfreq]

And LKP, let me clear something up with you...

I did not agree with you, and that's because you said in this thread the Lions were a SuperBowl caliber team.

We have very few holes, but we have them filled with starters who aren't as good as other teams starters.

We are a competitive team. We have every business being in the playoff hunt. And when a team makes the playoffs, there is no telling what happens. Look at the Giants two recent SuperBowl wins from the wild card spot.

But to say we ARE a SuperBowl level team is simply ludicrous. We're no where near as bad as Hughes thinks, and no where near as good as you think.

We are a wild card capable team that could improve tremendously with a good draft and a key free agent signing or two.

 

[mhughes0021]

Hold up there amigo...

It's already been widely reported that Mayhew wanted to fire Schwartz a year ago, and William Clay Ford Jr. wouldn't allow it because he didn't want to eat $12M in a coaches salary.

So, you can blame Mayhew for a whole lot of stuff, but you cannot blame him for keeping the coach longer than he should have, because he tried to fire him. You can blame Ford for that one, but there's no sense in beating a dead... owner.

Was that because mayhew extended him? Exactly. ..

 

[kmd47]

It is hard to argue with someone when they make up things and think they are facts in their own heads.

 

[mhughes0021]

It is hard to argue with someone when they make up things and think they are facts in their own heads.

What am I making up? Schwartz got a 3 year extension and mayhew wanted to fire him a year later....what an idiot.