Dugout defaced with swastika sign in NewYork

[byco42]

Ok Orange Jesus . Whatever you say. That evangelical voting block is so hypocritical not even funny.

1. I did not vote for Trump.
2. This is fact, not hearsay.
3. I am not Evangelical.
4. If you are going to be a champion of snuffing out racism, learn the full extent of it and where it begins.
5. I am trying to be more like Christ, so I'll take your epithet as a compliment.
6. Peace be with you.

 

[biggunsbob]

1. I did not vote for Trump.
2. This is fact, not hearsay.
3. I am not Evangelical.
4. If you are going to be a champion of snuffing out racism, learn the full extent of it and where it begins.
5. I am trying to be more like Christ, so I'll take your epithet as a compliment.
6. Peace be with you.

Separation of Church and State !!! There should be no religion in politics at all
Period!!!

 

[byco42]

Separation of Church and State !!! There should be no religion in politics at all
Period!!!

No. That's not what the phrase "separation of church and state" means at all. It means an endorsement of the Constitution correctly proscribing a Church of the United States. To "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit[ing] the free exercise thereof."

 

[Spartanmack]

In the 2010 census there is almost 90 million more whites then other groups in America right ? I would bet my house there is more racist white people then minorities and that is what I said . We have already talked about the judicial system till were blue in the face but still about 75% of whites do not believe in a racial bias the judicial system.
Question .
Do you not think there is more racism in whites then minorities because percentages don't matter here with whites being at 196 Million in total. Anyway I just want it stamped out everywhere. I hate the confederate flag. I hate the swastika symbol. They just get me pissed .


Census
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762156.html

http://therightstuff.biz/2015/01/09/racism-in-america-a-closer-look-at-the-numbers/

first of all, percentages are what matter if you're going to say whites are more racist than other races but even if you don't, you can't simply say there are more racist whites than others simply because there are more whites. That may be the case, but it's not obvious.

As for statistics - all the nonsense about systemic racial bias in the criminal justice system, from police to judges, conviction rates and sentences have all been debunked. No matter how many times you and sbee whine about drug dealers going to jail for dealing drugs, disparities in arrests and convictions are explained by crime rates by ethnicity. And disparity in sentencing is entirely explained by prior criminal history. Further, it's been widely disproved that police target and kill minorities at alarming rates - it's actually been shown that you're more likely to end up in a deadly confrontation with police if you're white than black when controlling for your chances of having a run in with cops (i.e. considering crime rates). All of these statistics you cite correlate more closely with socio-economic factors than race factors. But you and people like you refuse to see that so instead you keep pushing a false narrative that does nothing but further divides the nation.

 

[Gulo Blue]

first of all, percentages are what matter if you're going to say whites are more racist than other races but even if you don't, you can't simply say there are more racist whites than others simply because there are more whites. That may be the case, but it's not obvious.

As for statistics - all the nonsense about systemic racial bias in the criminal justice system, from police to judges, conviction rates and sentences have all been debunked. No matter how many times you and sbee whine about drug dealers going to jail for dealing drugs, disparities in arrests and convictions are explained by crime rates by ethnicity. And disparity in sentencing is entirely explained by prior criminal history. Further, it's been widely disproved that police target and kill minorities at alarming rates - it's actually been shown that you're more likely to end up in a deadly confrontation with police if you're white than black when controlling for your chances of having a run in with cops (i.e. considering crime rates). All of these statistics you cite correlate more closely with socio-economic factors than race factors. But you and people like you refuse to see that so instead you keep pushing a false narrative that does nothing but further divides the nation.

Entirely? I thought it was explained to a significant degree, but not entirely.

 

[Spartanmack]

Entirely? I thought it was explained to a significant degree, but not entirely.

enough to disprove the notion that our criminal justice system is fundamentally, systematically or institutionally racist. If "entirely" is too strong of a word, that's my bad but it doesn't discredit or alter the point I was making.

 

[Spartanmack]

Ok Orange Jesus . Whatever you say. That evangelical voting block is so hypocritical not even funny.

can you explain to me what is hypocritical about this graphic? As a follow on, what do you know about Margaret Sanger and are you familiar with the term eugenics?

 

[Gulo Blue]

enough to disprove the notion that our criminal justice system is fundamentally, systematically or institutionally racist. If "entirely" is too strong of a word, that's my bad but it doesn't discredit or alter the point I was making.

I think it does. I think it's pretty well understood that racial bias exists everywhere. Minorities even do it to minorities. It's a death by a thousand cuts. Maybe it only changes an important decision 1-5% of the time, but it's 1-5% of everything. What do to 1-5% do to a growth curve over decades?

But it's not evenly applied. Maybe only some small % of criminal justice system decisions are impacted by bias, but if that's your life it impacts, it's 100% your life that got screwed up. So dismissing it because we know it's not 80-99% of the problem isn't right. That's why I'm hung up on the word entirely.

 

[Monster]

Stats are stupid and don't tell the whole story. That's why I hate baseball nerds that never shut up about stats. You can brag all you want about obp and whip, but I'll gladly take an average ball player that practices hard, plays solid, and lifts up the guys around him over an all star that causes problems and never practices.

My point is that you can bring up race stats all you like, but unless you look at contributing factors, they can be misleading.

For instance, black men get longer sentences due to multiple past convictions and that stat that Green gives does not account for that. It also glosses over the fact that many cases involve multiple offenses that make sentences longer. The stat only uses raw numbers. Take 10 black men that have a marijuana conviction and 10 white men. That's it. It's very similar to the also debunked wage gap.

Then there's the stat where white people use weed at the same rate as black people but are arrested at a lower rate. That stat doesn't factor in location. High crime areas are typically minority neighborhoods (not always) and will obviously be more heavily policed. The more relevant stat would be white people arrested for just a weed violation in high crime areas vs black people arrested in the same neighborhood for the exact same charge with similar criminal histories. But this country can't be honest about race relations.

 

[Spartanmack]

I think it does. I think it's pretty well understood that racial bias exists everywhere. Minorities even do it to minorities. It's a death by a thousand cuts. Maybe it only changes an important decision 1-5% of the time, but it's 1-5% of everything. What do to 1-5% do to a growth curve over decades?

But it's not evenly applied. Maybe only some small % of criminal justice system decisions are impacted by bias, but if that's your life it impacts, it's 100% your life that got screwed up. So dismissing it because we know it's not 80-99% of the problem isn't right. That's why I'm hung up on the word entirely.

That's not institutional bias - it's not built into the system and there isn't proof that there is institutional racism in the justice system. Of course you do what you can to overcome innate biases, but that doesn't require blowing the whole thing up and starting over.

 

[Gulo Blue]

That's not institutional bias - it's not built into the system and there isn't proof that there is institutional racism in the justice system. Of course you do what you can to overcome innate biases, but that doesn't require blowing the whole thing up and starting over.

Well, I don't want to get caught trying to sound like I'm saying anything I'm not. Innate bias is systemic and a very important thing we need to do more about. I don't care if people want to call it institutional or not. That's become a political argument that muddies the water rather than clarifies it. If I say inherent bias is enough to explain the problem and it's systemic since the system is made up of people, I think that clears up what I think enough that we don't need the 'institutional' argument.

I'm not saying we need to blow the whole thing up. But I think it's a mistake to say there's not a problem either.

 

[biggunsbob]

first of all, percentages are what matter if you're going to say whites are more racist than other races but even if you don't, you can't simply say there are more racist whites than others simply because there are more whites. That may be the case, but it's not obvious.

As for statistics - all the nonsense about systemic racial bias in the criminal justice system, from police to judges, conviction rates and sentences have all been debunked. No matter how many times you and sbee whine about drug dealers going to jail for dealing drugs, disparities in arrests and convictions are explained by crime rates by ethnicity. And disparity in sentencing is entirely explained by prior criminal history. Further, it's been widely disproved that police target and kill minorities at alarming rates - it's actually been shown that you're more likely to end up in a deadly confrontation with police if you're white than black when controlling for your chances of having a run in with cops (i.e. considering crime rates). All of these statistics you cite correlate more closely with socio-economic factors than race factors. But you and people like you refuse to see that so instead you keep pushing a false narrative that does nothing but further divides the nation.

I never said percentages do not matter and Trump over performed in a lot of areas but if you are to blind to see what really put him over the top I just can't help you because you know what put him over the top. 58 percents of whites voted Trump compared to 37% for Clinton . So was it white women? Was it white men? He gained some ground over Romney in minorities but to think those numbers put him over the top is ludacris. So was it uninformed voters who put him over the top? Was it evangelical hypocrites? You can say it is all over the above but you know what group put him over the top. Whatever you get your right wing tea party extreme policies coming up. So good luck with that.

https://www.rt.com/usa/366171-trump-loses-popular-votes/

 

[biggunsbob]

Police man be investigated

Really I guess I am not the only one seeing a rise in this racist piece of shit flag that is a symbol of racism .

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rap..._investiga.html#incart_2box_news_grand-rapids

 

[Spartanmack]

I never said percentages do not matter and Trump over performed in a lot of areas but if you are to blind to see what really put him over the top I just can't help you because you know what put him over the top. 58 percents of whites voted Trump compared to 37% for Clinton . So was it white women? Was it white men? He gained some ground over Romney in minorities but to think those numbers put him over the top is ludacris. So was it uninformed voters who put him over the top? Was it evangelical hypocrites? You can say it is all over the above but you know what group put him over the top. Whatever you get your right wing tea party extreme policies coming up. So good luck with that.

https://www.rt.com/usa/366171-trump-loses-popular-votes/

this is just dumb. Whites voted for Romney 59 to 39, higher numbers than voted for Trump and blacks and hispanics voted for Trump in slightly higher numbers than Romney so to say Trump was pushed over the edge by the racist vote is simply false. To say "you just know it" indicates that you don't understand numbers very well.

If any group put him over the top, it was the black vote not showing up for a wholly uninspiring, not to mention completely corrupt and unqualified Hillary Clinton.

 

[Spartanmack]

Well, I don't want to get caught trying to sound like I'm saying anything I'm not. Innate bias is systemic and a very important thing we need to do more about. I don't care if people want to call it institutional or not. That's become a political argument that muddies the water rather than clarifies it. If I say inherent bias is enough to explain the problem and it's systemic since the system is made up of people, I think that clears up what I think enough that we don't need the 'institutional' argument.

I'm not saying we need to blow the whole thing up. But I think it's a mistake to say there's not a problem either.

but inherent bias isn't enought to explain the disparity. It may be responsible on the margin to the extent things like socio-economic status, disparities in crime rates and prior criminal history don't explain everything. If you think bias is enough to explain the problem then good luck fixing it. You're either going to need to build a lot of re-education camps (turd would love that idea) or create a bunch of monoethnic countries.

 

[Gulo Blue]

but inherent bias isn't enought to explain the disparity. It may be responsible on the margin to the extent things like socio-economic status, disparities in crime rates and prior criminal history don't explain everything. If you think bias is enough to explain the problem then good luck fixing it. You're either going to need to build a lot of re-education camps (turd would love that idea) or create a bunch of monoethnic countries.

Like I said before, it's death by a thousand cuts. Some small percent chance of getting your resume thrown out because of your name, customer survey ratings that put you some small percent behind your majority peers, some small percent chance you don't get this loan or that promotion. All the small percentages add up to a significant socioeconomic force that's really difficult to pin down because it only has so much impact in any one specific place.

Socioeconomics explains most of it, and of course the justice system being made up of people, adds it's own small percentage on top of all the others.

And here's the kicker, by using language that rejects or ignores the idea there is a bias, I think you feed the people that would call half the nation "racist".

 

[Spartanmack]

Like I said before, it's death by a thousand cuts. Some small percent chance of getting your resume thrown out because of your name, customer survey ratings that put you some small percent behind your majority peers, some small percent chance you don't get this loan or that promotion. All the small percentages add up to a significant socioeconomic force that's really difficult to pin down because it only has so much impact in any one specific place.

Socioeconomics explains most of it, and of course the justice system being made up of people, adds it's own small percentage on top of all the others.

And here's the kicker, by using language that rejects or ignores the idea there is a bias, I think you feed the people that would call half the nation "racist".

maybe, but it would just be another unsubstantiated claim. I think everyone agrees that inherent bias is something we all want to eliminate or at least mitigate to the extent it's possible. But it's counterproductive if you exaggerate a marginal contributing factor as the main driver of these statistical disparities.

 

[Gulo Blue]

maybe, but it would just be another unsubstantiated claim. I think everyone agrees that inherent bias is something we all want to eliminate or at least mitigate to the extent it's possible. But it's counterproductive if you exaggerate a marginal contributing factor as the main driver of these statistical disparities.

I'm not asking for exaggerating. I'm asking to call it exactly what it is to the best of our knowledge and we know it isn't zero, so we shouldn't use language that implies zero.

 

[Michchamp]

but inherent bias isn't enought to explain the disparity. It may be responsible on the margin to the extent things like socio-economic status, disparities in crime rates and prior criminal history don't explain everything. If you think bias is enough to explain the problem then good luck fixing it. You're either going to need to build a lot of re-education camps (turd would love that idea) or create a bunch of monoethnic countries.

translation:

"I'm happy ignoring the effects, or even acknowledging the *possibility* that decades of instituationalized racism, such as slavery, Jim Crow laws, poll taxes and voter intimidation, segregation (which didn't end until the 1960's) and redlining (which didn't end till the 1980's) could have any lingering effects on the people or descendants of people who suffered directly from them, and instead blame them for being inferior to whites, and being poor, more likely to be unemployed, and more likely to commit crimes. I will also go to my grave denying racism is a problem or anyone should try to do anything about it. WHITE POWER."​

 

[Gulo Blue]

maybe, but it would just be another unsubstantiated claim. I think everyone agrees that inherent bias is something we all want to eliminate or at least mitigate to the extent it's possible. But it's counterproductive if you exaggerate a marginal contributing factor as the main driver of these statistical disparities.

And I don't know why you'd say "unsubstantiated claim", unless you are picking out some specific thing that you don't think has been tested.