Dugout defaced with swastika sign in NewYork

[Spartanmack]

translation:

"I'm happy ignoring the effects, or even acknowledging the *possibility* that decades of instituationalized racism, such as slavery, Jim Crow laws, poll taxes and voter intimidation, segregation (which didn't end until the 1960's) and redlining (which didn't end till the 1980's) could have any lingering effects on the people or descendants of people who suffered directly from them, and instead blame them for being inferior to whites, and being poor, more likely to be unemployed, and more likely to commit crimes. I will also go to my grave denying racism is a problem or anyone should try to do anything about it. WHITE POWER."​

translation:

"I'm a race baiting idiot who has no facts or evidence so I resort to stupid ad hominem attacks and nonsense like the above. I pretend that racism is worse now, 50 years after the civil rights movement made such great progress, than it has been since slavery. I will continue to pretend that it's not Democrats who were responsible for literally every instance of institutional racism to push my statist, big government agenda. I will go to my grave blaming everything on racism that doesn't exist to anywhere near the extent I think it does."​

 

[Spartanmack]

And I don't know why you'd say "unsubstantiated claim", unless you are picking out some specific thing that you don't think has been tested.

because the claim that institutionalized, systemic racism is the primary driver of these statistical disparities is unsubstantiated. Evidence points to other factors being the primary drivers.

 

[biggunsbob]

But people were shocked to see this. REALLY After How Trump ran his election campaign on hate, and this was in California. Again I hope you are right and thsee are on offs as some have claimed.

The veterans were shocked !


http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Confederate-flags-shock-viewers-at-Petaluma-10610556.php

 

[Gulo Blue]

because the claim that institutionalized, systemic racism is the primary driver of these statistical disparities is unsubstantiated. Evidence points to other factors being the primary drivers.

How many times are you going to put words in my mouth in this thread? I've been real clear here.

 

[Michchamp]

because the claim that institutionalized, systemic racism is the primary driver of these statistical disparities is unsubstantiated. Evidence points to other factors being the primary drivers.

what is this evidence and how does it "point to other factors"? I am curious.

I am not surprised that - as a complete racist & bigot - you can just waive off the effect that segregation and redlining has on black communities today.

I think to any normal person, pointing out the fact that prior to the 1960's a substantial portion of the African American population of this country was sequestered by official state policy into inferior schools, denied access to public higher education, denied access to public accommodations, social services, etc., not to mention bathrooms, drinking fountains, etc. and also that up until the 1980's official state policy precluded African American neighborhoods from federally backed mortgage loans, which kept a substantial portion of African American families from owning homes would be shocking and lead to more understanding of how and why things are the way they are.

 

[Spartanmack]

How many times are you going to put words in my mouth in this thread? I've been real clear here.

None. I'm not attributing it to you - reread my posts and you'll see pronouns like they/them, etc not you. My point all along has been about the people who claim racism is the primary driver of the disparities in crime related statistics.

 

[Spartanmack]

what is this evidence and how does it "point to other factors"? I am curious.

I am not surprised that - as a complete racist & bigot - you can just waive off the effect that segregation and redlining has on black communities today.

I think to any normal person, pointing out the fact that prior to the 1960's a substantial portion of the African American population of this country was sequestered by official state policy into inferior schools, denied access to public higher education, denied access to public accommodations, social services, etc., not to mention bathrooms, drinking fountains, etc. and also that up until the 1980's official state policy precluded African American neighborhoods from federally backed mortgage loans, which kept a substantial portion of African American families from owning homes would be shocking and lead to more understanding of how and why things are the way they are.

we're not living in a "prior to the 1960s" world. A lot of racial progress has been made since then - progress you conveniently ignore. Poor urban communities have substandard schools because of union thugs and mismanagement by racist Democrats like you, not because of some pre-1960s legacy. Which official state policy denied blacks access to federally backed mortgage loans? If it's true and not just the same nonsense you're always posting about something you don't like being racist. If you're indeed right for once, that's inexcusable but it hardly held anyone back economically given the fact that every long terms study of housing shows your better off economically renting than owning.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I'm not attributing it to you - reread my posts and you'll see pronouns like they/them, etc not you. My point all along has been about the people who claim racism is the primary driver of the disparities in crime related statistics.

How about instead, you reread my posts, since I've been asserting that it's wrong to use language that implies there is no bias, as you have.

 

[Spartanmack]

How about instead, you reread my posts, since I've been asserting that it's wrong to use language that implies there is no bias, as you have.

Again, i think it's you who needs to reread my posts. I've never said bias doesn't exist. What I've always said is bias doesn't explain the disparity. It happens and we should always strive to eliminate it but the bigger problems that require more resources and attention are those that plague the cultures of the poorer communities (lack of 2 parent households, rampant drug trade, violent crime, under performing schools, etc).

 

[Gulo Blue]

Again, i think it's you who needs to reread my posts. I've never said bias doesn't exist. What I've always said is bias doesn't explain the disparity. It happens and we should always strive to eliminate it but the bigger problems that require more resources and attention are those that plague the cultures of the poorer communities (lack of 2 parent households, rampant drug trade, violent crime, under performing schools, etc).

No man. The discussion between you and me has been about whether or not it's appropriate to use language that is dismissive of the idea that there is a problem.

 

[Spartanmack]

No man. The discussion between you and me has been about whether or not it's appropriate to use language that is dismissive of the idea that there is a problem.

I've been pretty clear on my position about innate biases and doing what we can to mitigate/eliminate them. What I'm saying is even if you could and did eliminate them, you wouldn't see a material change in the statistics because the much more meaningful factors would still exist.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I've been pretty clear on my position about innate biases and doing what we can to mitigate/eliminate them. What I'm saying is even if you could and did eliminate them, you wouldn't see a material change in the statistics because the much more meaningful factors would still exist.

and I've been pretty clear on my position that when you use language that dismisses the problem, you feed the people that see racists everywhere. It's part of the cycle of continuing partisanship.

Also, I'm surprised you don't think the sum effect of lots of little racial bias influences over the course of a life has no material impact of stats. That position seems pretty difficult to defend.

 

[Spartanmack]

and I've been pretty clear on my position that when you use language that dismisses the problem, you feed the people that see racists everywhere. It's part of the cycle of continuing partisanship.

Also, I'm surprised you don't think the sum effect of lots of little racial bias influences over the course of a life has no material impact of stats. That position seems pretty difficult to defend.

So what should we do, agree with them? Of course not. Find a way to explain that it's not a major factor without dismissing it? I thought that's what I was doing.

Are you now saying that these lots of little incidents are leading black youth to a life of crime? I go back to my same point - there are bigger, more impactful factors. There are better, more legitimate ways to overcome these hardships and there are plenty of examples in public and private life for them to aspire to that would indicate maybe the US isn't as racist as people like turd claims it is.

 

[Gulo Blue]

So what should we do, agree with them? Of course not. Find a way to explain that it's not a major factor without dismissing it? I thought that's what I was doing.

Are you now saying that these lots of little incidents are leading black youth to a life of crime? I go back to my same point - there are bigger, more impactful factors. There are better, more legitimate ways to overcome these hardships and there are plenty of examples in public and private life for them to aspire to that would indicate maybe the US isn't as racist as people like turd claims it is.

Yes. I am saying these little incidents push people to crime. Of course I am.

The deck is stacked against them in a million little way, which over decades, pushes them towards poverty, which leads to crime.

What other big factors are you talking about? It's all about poverty.

 

[Michchamp]

because the claim that institutionalized, systemic racism is the primary driver of these statistical disparities is unsubstantiated. Evidence points to other factors being the primary drivers.

what is this evidence and how does it "point to other factors"? I am curious.

...

still waiting...

 

[Spartanmack]

still waiting...

It's been discussed ad nauseam here. You've seen the data, you can't produce anything to refute it other than what bad things the Democrats did and got away with until the 60s. But if you insist on waiting, try holding your breath until you get it.

 

[Spartanmack]

Yes. I am saying these little incidents push people to crime. Of course I am.

The deck is stacked against them in a million little way, which over decades, pushes them towards poverty, which leads to crime.

What other big factors are you talking about? It's all about poverty.

the lack of two parent households, inadequate policing leading to unsafe neighborhoods and schools, people like turd telling them they're victims and therefore not responsible for any of their own circumstances just to name a few.

 

[Michchamp]

the lack of two parent households, inadequate policing leading to unsafe neighborhoods and schools, people like turd telling them they're victims and therefore not responsible for any of their own circumstances just to name a few.

blacks just don't like two parent households? maybe cause of the rap music?

and inadequate policing... only in black neighborhoods? that could be a sign of instutionalized racism, no?

blaming liberals... how is that logical? I guess there were a lot of liberals in the post-bellum South as well? in 1900-1960 Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, the Carolinas... in northern ghettos?

 

[elrod817]

the lack of two parent households, inadequate policing leading to unsafe neighborhoods and schools, people like turd telling them they're victims and therefore not responsible for any of their own circumstances just to name a few.

These are actually byproducts of bias, which is, potentially putting words in Gulo's mouth, the whole point. It's an endless cycle with the only permanent solution is to end bias.

 

[Spartanmack]

These are actually byproducts of bias, which is, potentially putting words in Gulo's mouth, the whole point. It's an endless cycle with the only permanent solution is to end bias.

no, they're not. They may be impacted by it, but these have mostly become problems SINCE the civil rights movement. Bias doesn't encourage a tripling of the percentage of children born out of wedlock since passage of the civil rights act, things like welfare do that. Bias doesn't cause black on black crime that destroys minority communities. Bias doesn't cause poor blacks to have a 13% graduation rate from high school in schools that are often among the highest in per student spending.