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FISA Abuse

tigermud said:
Yup I’m a right wing now extremist apparently before that I was just a deplorable, The right to dissent and question lefty narratives has become increasingly dangerous since trump won
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Proud deplorable here. One of the originals in fact. And I guess a bitter, clinger as well.
 
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jwlcosu said:
Powerful stuff. Solomon has been huge throughout. As has Sara Carter. And what?s funny is that folks who get their "news" from NYT or WaPo or LAT or ABC or NBC or CBS or CNN or MSNBC or NPR or AP or Reuters and so on and so forth, have no clue who either of these people are. But you?re crazy and I?m a bonehead!
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His story of the ?two guys? who came to visit him reminded me of Christine Blas? Ford?s story.
 
tinselwolverine said:
Of course I read the rest of the post.

Even if all that turns out to be proven to be true-and even if it is true, I think it will be very hard to prove - they?re all going to say that they suspected Trump was colluding with a foreign power and they were investigating treason, and even if that story is bullshit, it?s going to be hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt they didn?t really believe it, and viewed the surveillance as entirely justified- I know you?re going to make a boneheaded response to this that proves that you didn?t understand the meaning of what I just stated, but I?ll address that at the time you do-that having been said, Obama is no longer subject to needing to resign to avoid impeachment, removal and prosecution because Obama is termed out- he?s not the president anymore.

Given that how can this story being Watergate times anything?

What about the logic of this are you missing?

I think I?ve pointed this out before-there seems to be a paucity in the teaching of critical thinking at Thee Ohio state university.
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Agree, disagree, disparage, whatever, here is my reply.

Watergate was a bungled, ill-advised, illegal break-in and burglary attempt that was made a scandal as a result of the cover-up. Hence the phrase, "it's not the crime, it's the cover-up." As a result of the cover-up, Nixon lost support and was forced from office. And some went to prison.

The scandal of Spygate is not about the cover-up. It's about the crime. It's about unelected government bureaucrats conspiring to take a series of actions with the intent to first influence, and then overturn the result of an election. It's about those bureaucrats, in positions of power, deciding to hell with the will of the American people. That's dangerous.

I am totally uncool with the idea that rogue individuals in various government agencies, the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, took it upon themselves to game the system and to even think about thwarting the will of the electorate. That's what makes this bigger than Watergate. Way bigger. At least seven times bigger. It has zero to do with anything that may or may not happen to 0bama. You seem to be fixated on that.

Likewise, I am totally uncool with the role Hillary and the DNC played in terms of funding the trumped up dossier which was then used to get the FISA warrant which led to spying on the campaign and American citizens. In fact, that is where collusion with foreign agents took place (Steele among others) and that makes it bigger than anything Watergate has to offer.

With respect to your point that repercussions are unlikely because those I named will claim justification in going after Trump because they suspected treason was in play: How ironic in that whereas Trump, according to Mueller, did not collude with foreign agents, these folks certainly did. Does that mean they committed treason? Arguably yes. Nobody associated with Watergate committed anything close to treason.
 
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jwlcosu said:
Agree, disagree, disparage, whatever, here is my reply.

Watergate was a bungled, ill-advised, illegal break-in and burglary attempt that was made a scandal as a result of the cover-up. Hence the phrase, "it's not the crime, it's the cover-up." As a result of the cover-up, Nixon lost support and was forced from office. And some went to prison.

The scandal of Spygate is not about the cover-up. It's about the crime. It's about unelected government bureaucrats conspiring to take a series of actions with the intent to first influence, and then overturn the result of an election. It's about those bureaucrats deciding to hell with the will of the American people. That's dangerous.

I am totally uncool with the idea that rogue individuals in various government agencies, the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, took it upon themselves to game the system and to even think about thwarting the will of the electorate. That's what makes this bigger than Watergate. Way bigger. At least seven times bigger. It has zero to do with anything that may or may not happen to 0bama. You seem to be fixated on that.

Likewise, I am totally uncool with the role Hillary and the DNC played in terms of funding the trumped up dossier which was then used to get the FISA warrant which led to spying on the campaign and American citizens. In fact, that is where collusion with foreign agents took place (Steele among others) and that makes it bigger than anything Watergate has to offer.

With respect to your point that repercussions are unlikely because those I named will claim justification in going after Trump because they suspected treason was in play: How ironic in that whereas Trump, according to Mueller, did not collude with foreign agents, these folks certainly did. Does that mean they committed treason? Arguably yes. Nobody associated with Watergate committed treason.
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The Watergate break-in was also about unelected bureaucrats attempting to influence the outcome of an election.

There is no apples to apples comparison between the two that is quantifiable except for the outcomes.

The outcome of Spygate can never be more impactful than the outcome of Watergate was.

If you are going to use your own personal quantification that disregards outcomes, and base the quantification on your own feelings (like a snowflake libtard) I guess nobody is going to be right and nobody is going to be wrong.

I do think that, like liberals over the Mueller report, and back in the day over the Patrick Fitzgerald investigation into the Valerie Plame event, you and some other conservatives are going to wind up being disappointed by the fallout, or lack there of, of this.
 
tinselwolverine said:
The Watergate break-in was also about unelected bureaucrats attempting to influence the outcome of an election.

There is no apples to apples comparison between the two that is quantifiable except for the outcomes.

The outcome of Spygate can never be more impactful than the outcome of Watergate was.

If you are going to use your own personal quantification that disregards outcomes, and base the quantification on your own feelings (like a snowflake libtard) I guess nobody is going to be right and nobody is going to be wrong.

I do think that, like liberals over the Mueller report, and back in the day over the Patrick Fitzgerald investigation into the Valerie Plame event, you and some other conservatives are going to wind up being disappointed by the fallout, or lack there of, of this.
Click to expand...

At least you used the term Spygate. That's progress.
 
There's this weird idea floating around that the decision involved in getting elected or not getting elected, since it reflects the will of the electorate, it supersedes any other application of the law. If you're elected President, then what you did to get there was legal since it was sanctioned by the ultimate deciders. I'm thinking specifically of people I've heard on the radio.



Real failed understanding of civics there. Actively arguing against a government with any checks & balances. I'll support anyone that wants to argue they were eroding before Trump, but now, there seems to be smart-sounding people on the radio arguing against their existence altogether.
 
tinselwolverine said:
No problem whatsoever
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Over the years, I?ve noticed you?re the kind of person that insists on having the last word. For once I gave it my best shot and with that, or whatever comes next, you shall.
 
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