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Fister Traded, now is retiring from baseball

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/keith-law/post?id=1600

"I've spoken to numerous team executives who were shocked at the return for Fister and wish they had been given the opportunity to offer more or to try to assemble a multi-team deal that would give the Tigers the specific pieces they wanted. One contending team's GM, known to be looking for another starter, told me he hadn't talked to the Tigers about Fister in weeks. Another exec with a contender indicated something similar.

The demand for starting pitching is so strong and the supply is so weak that giving one as good as Fister away just to clear space for a 60-inning, 39-year-old reliever leaves the Tigers clearly worse off in the end. "




Conclusion: DD is a fucking moron if he's been talking about trading fister for weeks ONLY WITH THE NATIONALS. Does he really have this big of a hard-on for Ray? We got fucked and he didnt even fucking bother to shop Fister around? THIS IS FUCKING LUDICROUS (if true).

SO GODDAMN PISSED OFF

I am not surprised. I would have been more surprised had he called around and not found a better deal. It shouldn't shock anyone that he could have accidentally stumbled on a better deal with minimal effort.
 
http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/keith-law/post?id=1600

"I've spoken to numerous team executives who were shocked at the return for Fister and wish they had been given the opportunity to offer more or to try to assemble a multi-team deal that would give the Tigers the specific pieces they wanted. One contending team's GM, known to be looking for another starter, told me he hadn't talked to the Tigers about Fister in weeks. Another exec with a contender indicated something similar.

The demand for starting pitching is so strong and the supply is so weak that giving one as good as Fister away just to clear space for a 60-inning, 39-year-old reliever leaves the Tigers clearly worse off in the end. "




Conclusion: DD is a fucking moron if he's been talking about trading fister for weeks ONLY WITH THE NATIONALS. Does he really have this big of a hard-on for Ray? We got fucked and he didnt even fucking bother to shop Fister around? THIS IS FUCKING LUDICROUS (if true).

SO GODDAMN PISSED OFF

Hopefully he sees something in that starter who by most accounts is the centerpiece of the deal. If not, and what K Law says is true, DD may have really missed out on a better deal!
 
We didn't get crap for fister and that's a shame on you DD...now go get choo ya dork
 
Smyly and Nathan > Fister

Kieth Law is reaching for stories this time of the year. Always love mystery executives and GMs.
 
Well I think when someone poses a hypothetical you are assuming .270 and .300 are true talent level averages rather than possible BABIP fluctuations. If so, .300/.350 is obviously superior.


I think you missed the point he was making, it was not about fluctuations.

In order for the .300/.350 guy to be clearly superior to the .270/.350 guy the .300 guy needs to have a higher OBP.
 
Smyly and Nathan > Fister

Kieth Law is reaching for stories this time of the year. Always love mystery executives and GMs.


Oh? where is your data to suggest this? Smyly is a huge unknown, and closers are highly overrated.
 
Smyly and Nathan > Fister

Kieth Law is reaching for stories this time of the year. Always love mystery executives and GMs.

Remains to be seen first of all. Second of all, even if what you say turns out to be true that still doesn't mean DD didn't get the short end of the stick on the trade. Wouldn't it have been nice to have Smyly, Nathan, AND better players in return from Washington? We didn't optimize our team, and that's on the GM.

Also, I don't know how much truth there is in the reports about how shocked other GMs are about the move. I agree with another poster that if true, that fact makes me even more upset that we could have gotten a bigger haul for Doug.
 
[/B]

I think you missed the point he was making, it was not about fluctuations.

In order for the .300/.350 guy to be clearly superior to the .270/.350 guy the .300 guy needs to have a higher OBP.

Not necessarily. Both get on base at the same rate. The only difference is one does it more with hits than the other guy who does it more with walks. Hits are more valuable than walks hence .300/.350 is better than .270/.350 assuming those are true talent figures.
 
Dombrowski not asking anyone else to come up with a deal for Fister has to be a level of gross incompetence right? I mean, if my job was to trade things between different teams, and I only asked one team about a trade, made said trade, and found out later basically everyone in the world disagreed with my valuation and every other potential partner would have given me more if I had just asked, I am pretty confident I would be immediately fired for not completing a basic task for my job which is simply talking to other people. I am not wrong here am I?
 
Dombrowski not asking anyone else to come up with a deal for Fister has to be a level of gross incompetence right? I mean, if my job was to trade things between different teams, and I only asked one team about a trade, made said trade, and found out later basically everyone in the world disagreed with my valuation and every other potential partner would have given me more if I had just asked, I am pretty confident I would be immediately fired for not completing a basic task for my job which is simply talking to other people. I am not wrong here am I?

youd think it drives value up if you get multiple offers. The way the articles I read sound is DD was looking for something specific in return for fister.....he obviously found what he was looking for in whatever the hell we got lol.
 
Dombrowski not asking anyone else to come up with a deal for Fister has to be a level of gross incompetence right? I mean, if my job was to trade things between different teams, and I only asked one team about a trade, made said trade, and found out later basically everyone in the world disagreed with my valuation and every other potential partner would have given me more if I had just asked, I am pretty confident I would be immediately fired for not completing a basic task for my job which is simply talking to other people. I am not wrong here am I?

So, it makes you think about the Fielder trade. Maybe he only talked with the Rangers and nobody else.
 
[/B]

I think you missed the point he was making, it was not about fluctuations.

In order for the .300/.350 guy to be clearly superior to the .270/.350 guy the .300 guy needs to have a higher OBP.

The issue here started when Tom claimed BAVG was a good stat by itself. He used OBP to be the same, with the BAVG different. It that case, then BAVG by itself says that one hitter was a .270 and the other was .310. We could easily use .270 and .310 as their OBP and the higher number is always going to be better. But let's look at the way it he meant it.

Player A = .310 BAVG .335 OBP .375 SLG .710 OPS

Player B = .310 BAVG .395 OBP .505 SLG .900 OPS

Batting average says that both hitters are the same. So by itself, BAVG tells you nothing other than a level of eye/hand coordination it takes to hit .310. However, the difference between a batter's BAVG and OBP can be predictive. Meaning, the greater the difference, the least apt the player will be affected by a hitting slump.

Additionally, as I stated before, counting stats (R, RBI, HR, SB, etc) and certain rate stats (BAVG, ERA, WAR) are just plain terrible. They can rarely be predictive in nature nor can they be good comparison stats. Stats that take into account Linear Weights (i.e. Runs Created, wOBA, etc) are better comparison and predictive stats.
 
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The issue here started when Tom claimed BAVG was a good stat by itself. He used OBP to be the same, with the BAVG different. It that case, then BAVG by itself says that one hitter was a .270 and the other was .310. We could easily use .270 and .310 as their OBP and the higher number is always going to be better. But let's look at the way it he meant it.

Player A = .310 BAVG .335 OBP .375 SLG .710 OPS

Player B = .310 BAVG .395 OBP .505 SLG .900 OPS

Batting average says that both hitters are the same. So by itself, BAVG tells you nothing other than a level of eye/hand coordination it takes to hit .310. However, the difference between a batter's BAVG and OBP can be predictive. Meaning, the greater the difference, the last apt the player will be affected by a hitting slump.

Additionally, as I stated before, counting stats (R, RBI, HR, SB, etc) and certain rate stats (BAVG, ERA, WAR) are just plain terrible. They can rarely be predictive in nature nor can they be could comparison stats. Stat that take into account Linear Weights (i.e. Runs Created, wOBA, etc) are better comparison and predictive stats.

I never said it was a good stat by itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumb
People who put much value in Batting Average likely still believe the world is flat.

I responded: that's a little harsh. BA by itself can be an overrated stat but it is still very important.
 
Some Robbie Ray pitching GIFs

Ray-FA.gif


Ray-Roza-CU-K.gif


http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-fringe-five-baseballs-most-compelling-fringe-prospects-11/

Ray-Adams-CU-Called-K.gif


Ray-Grayson-CU-SS-K.gif


http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-fringe-five-baseballs-most-compelling-fringe-prospects-7/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_LiedEB8rY#t=34

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-fringe-five-baseballs-most-compelling-fringe-prospects-6/
 
Steve Lombardozzi's dad, whose relatively brief and lackluster career in MLB, mostly with the Twins '85-'88, actually has a sponsor for his BBR webpage.

The sponsor's message: "For my money, still the greatest Lombardozzi of all time -- for now."

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lombast01.shtml

Welll...from the looks of both Senior and Junior's statistics, they both appear to be very similar in ability and talent. Father had about double his son's PAs, but on a seasonal average, the former walked a bit more and had a couple more homers, while the latter has hit for a little higher BA and stole a base more.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lombast02.shtml

They are virtually indistinguishable from each other, so odds are that Junior's career "should" wind up to be about as short-lived as his dad's was. But then look how long "scrappy" and "gritty" players who oft-times had loooong stretches of poor hitting, and loong streaks of 0-fers have lasted on the Tigers' squads, such as Santiago, Inge, Raburn, Kelly..ect. Even Neifi Perez might have lasted a couple of seasons longer with the Tigers, had he not been busted for the 3rd time with amphetamines and suspended for 80 games during the second half of the '07 season.
 
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DD on Fister deal: "I felt like we did tremendous due diligence. If someone didn't know if he was available, they probably didn't have the talent to match up."

FUCKING BULLSHIT.


"DD: "The one thing I would say, we did for sure did our due diligence." Wants the writers to produce names of GMs that said.

He called out Keith Law, then.
 
Would not surprise me that Keith Law was full of shit, trying to embellish his own story, he's kind of known for being an egomaniac, when in reality he's pretty stupid.

That said, it does not forgive DD for what was an obvious lube-less ass raping our ballclub took.
 
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