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Fister Traded, now is retiring from baseball

"they probably didn't have the talent to match up.

LOL..they probably wouldn't NEED to have as much talent to match up, Dave!!

They could have offered their #5 SP for what Dombrowski received in return, and then laughed @ the gnats' GM Rizzo, if he wanted more. "Okay..we will toss in one of our ballgirls"
 
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Would not surprise me that Keith Law was full of shit, trying to embellish his own story, he's kind of known for being an egomaniac, when in reality he's pretty stupid.

That said, it does not forgive DD for what was an obvious lube-less ass raping our ballclub took.

So you think DD called other GM's and didn't get a better offer than that for a top 20 pitcher in the MLB? I just can't believe that. It would imply that every other GM is as stupid as DD. Frankly it is unfathomable that he actually called anybody else about Fister. Law is probably right because he has to be right because there is no way in god's green earth that is the best deal anybody would offer for Fister.
 
So you think DD called other GM's and didn't get a better offer than that for a top 20 pitcher in the MLB? I just can't believe that. It would imply that every other GM is as stupid as DD. Frankly it is unfathomable that he actually called anybody else about Fister. Law is probably right because he has to be right because there is no way in god's green earth that is the best deal anybody would offer for Fister.

I do agree with this. I think DD either really thinks this LH starter is something special or he just took the first offer he was dealt. If he would have leaked that Fister was available I think about 1/2 of the league would have shown interest!
 
12:10
Comment From person hscer
It’s exactly a week ago. I’m a Nats fan. I ask you “Lombardozzi, Krol and Ray for Fister, who says no?” Do you: a) ignore the question, b) reply with snark, c) say the Tigers, or d) other.
12:11
Dave Cameron: B, and then some mocking.

from fangraphs today. This is pretty much universal as well, I literally have not seen one person who has said anything positive. The best I've seen is something like 'well DD does a good job usually so we should give him the benefit of the doubt for a bit'.
 
The one thing DD doesn't do well, evaluate young talent. I'm possible, Lombardozziiiii, Krol and ray will be gone in 3 season. And not because they were part of a trade, as least no more than a throw in.
 
One thing to note though is this. While like everyone I believe we could have gotten a better deal for Fister lets not forget he was only slightly better than Porcello in the 2nd half last year.

Verlander
3-6 Record (14 Starts)
92.1 IP
3.41 ERA
3.36 FIP
3.77 xFIP

Scherzer
8-2 Record (13 Starts)
84.2 IP
2.44 ERA
2.85 FIP
3.65 xFIP

Sanchez
7-2 Record (14 Starts)
90.0 IP
2.20 ERA
2.50 FIP
3.12 xFIP

Fister
7-4 Record (13 Starts)
87.2 IP
3.18 ERA
3.14 FIP
3.47 xFIP

Porcello
7-2 Record (12 Starts)
77.2 IP
3.71 ERA
3.55 FIP
3.40 xFIP


I mean is he a more proven starter than Smyly? of course but we cannot look at it as to whether Smyly can attempt to replace Fister in the rotation because that's not the correct comparison. It's whether Porcello can match or better Fister's #4 spot in the rotation and whether Smyly can match or better Porcello's #5 spot in the rotation.
 
Some Robbie Ray pitching GIFs

Ray-FA.gif


Ray-Roza-CU-K.gif


http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-fringe-five-baseballs-most-compelling-fringe-prospects-11/

Ray-Adams-CU-Called-K.gif


Ray-Grayson-CU-SS-K.gif


http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-fringe-five-baseballs-most-compelling-fringe-prospects-7/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_LiedEB8rY#t=34

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-fringe-five-baseballs-most-compelling-fringe-prospects-6/

whats the sign for meatball....
 
One thing to note though is this. While like everyone I believe we could have gotten a better deal for Fister lets not forget he was only slightly better than Porcello in the 2nd half last year.

Verlander
3-6 Record (14 Starts)
92.1 IP
3.41 ERA
3.36 FIP
3.77 xFIP

Scherzer
8-2 Record (13 Starts)
84.2 IP
2.44 ERA
2.85 FIP
3.65 xFIP

Sanchez
7-2 Record (14 Starts)
90.0 IP
2.20 ERA
2.50 FIP
3.12 xFIP

Fister
7-4 Record (13 Starts)
87.2 IP
3.18 ERA
3.14 FIP
3.47 xFIP

Porcello
7-2 Record (12 Starts)
77.2 IP
3.71 ERA
3.55 FIP
3.40 xFIP


I mean is he a more proven starter than Smyly? of course but we cannot look at it as to whether Smyly can attempt to replace Fister in the rotation because that's not the correct comparison. It's whether Porcello can match or better Fister's #4 spot in the rotation and whether Smyly can match or better Porcello's #5 spot in the rotation.

Quality Starts

Scherzer 11 of 13 .846 (25 of 32 .781)

Sanchez 11 of 14 .786 (20 of 29 .690)

Fister 9 of 13 .692 (22 of 32 .688)

Porcello 8 of 12 .667 (18 of 29 .621)

Verlander 9 of 14 .643 (22 of 34 .647)

Alvarez 0 of 2 .000 (1 of 6 .167)

TOTAL = 48 of 68 .706 (108 of 162 .667)

Runs Scored in those starts, total for the game (Season totals)

Porcello 75 / 12 = 6.25 R/G (148 / 29 = 5.10 R/G)

Sanchez 78 / 14 = 5.57 R/G (154 / 29 = 5.31 R/G)

Scherzer 67 / 13 = 5.15 R/G (179 / 32 = 5.59 R/G)

Verlander 51 / 14 = 3.64 R/G (158 / 34 = 4.65 R/G)

Fister 46 / 13 = 3.54 R/G (140 / 32 = 4.38 R/G)

Alvarez 2 / 2 = 1.00 R/G (17 / 6 = 2.83 R/G)

TOTAL 319 / 68 = 4.69 R/G (796 / 162 = 4.91 R/G) (5.07 in 1st half)

"Historically", a team will win as many quality starts, given league average run support. DET was 41-27 in the 2nd half. They lost 7 more games in the 2nd half when they should not have, given those starter performances. 15 games for the season.

AL AVG last 3 years

3579 QS 2475 WGS 6968 GS 30730 R

.514 = QS%

.692 = Starter Wins per QS

4.41 R/G

Not just offense impacts whether a team wins. The bull pen comes into play as well. So, the drop in 2nd half offense contributed to 2nd half lack of normal wins, but the bull pen played more of a role.

But I digress.

Porcello got far more run support in the 2nd half than Fister. I am of the opinion that for some starters (not all), pitching with some runs is easier than pitching without.

Last 3 Years Quality Starts

Verlander 75 QS of 101 GS = .743

Fister 59 QS of 89 GS = .663

Sanchez 61 QS of 92 GS = .663

Scherzer 61 QS of 97 GS = .629

Porcello 50 QS of 91 GS = .549

All 5 of these starters are better than the AL Average the last 3 years for QS%, but the difference between Fister and Porcello has been 3 Quality Starts a year, or about 2-3 wins.

I do not expect Smyly to come close to league average in Quality Starts. In 28 Games Started, he might get 13 or 14. Porcello + Fister was 60 GS and about 36 QS. Porcello + Fister in 60 GS might be 32 (18 + 14). That is a drop of 4 Quality Starts next year. Did we improve the offense to make up for it?

Additionally, gone from the bullpen in Benoit, Smyly, Veras, Dotel, Downs and Valverde/Bonderman. Replaced with just 39-yr old Nathan and Krol, so far.

Really??? Someone thinks we are just as good with Porcello over Fister and we aren't really losing much?
 
Quality Starts

Scherzer 11 of 13 .846 (25 of 32 .781)

Sanchez 11 of 14 .786 (20 of 29 .690)

Fister 9 of 13 .692 (22 of 32 .688)

Porcello 8 of 12 .667 (18 of 29 .621)

Verlander 9 of 14 .643 (22 of 34 .647)

Alvarez 0 of 2 .000 (1 of 6 .167)

TOTAL = 48 of 68 .706 (108 of 162 .667)

Runs Scored in those starts, total for the game (Season totals)

Porcello 75 / 12 = 6.25 R/G (148 / 29 = 5.10 R/G)

Sanchez 78 / 14 = 5.57 R/G (154 / 29 = 5.31 R/G)

Scherzer 67 / 13 = 5.15 R/G (179 / 32 = 5.59 R/G)

Verlander 51 / 14 = 3.64 R/G (158 / 34 = 4.65 R/G)

Fister 46 / 13 = 3.54 R/G (140 / 32 = 4.38 R/G)

Alvarez 2 / 2 = 1.00 R/G (17 / 6 = 2.83 R/G)

TOTAL 319 / 68 = 4.69 R/G (796 / 162 = 4.91 R/G) (5.07 in 1st half)

"Historically", a team will win as many quality starts, given league average run support. DET was 41-27 in the 2nd half. They lost 7 more games in the 2nd half when they should not have, given those starter performances. 15 games for the season.

AL AVG last 3 years

3579 QS 2475 WGS 6968 GS 30730 R

.514 = QS%

.692 = Starter Wins per QS

4.41 R/G

Not just offense impacts whether a team wins. The bull pen comes into play as well. So, the drop in 2nd half offense contributed to 2nd half lack of normal wins, but the bull pen played more of a role.

But I digress.

Porcello got far more run support in the 2nd half than Fister. I am of the opinion that for some starters (not all), pitching with some runs is easier than pitching without.

Last 3 Years Quality Starts

Verlander 75 QS of 101 GS = .743

Fister 59 QS of 89 GS = .663

Sanchez 61 QS of 92 GS = .663

Scherzer 61 QS of 97 GS = .629

Porcello 50 QS of 91 GS = .549

All 5 of these starters are better than the AL Average the last 3 years for QS%, but the difference between Fister and Porcello has been 3 Quality Starts a year, or about 2-3 wins.

I do not expect Smyly to come close to league average in Quality Starts. In 28 Games Started, he might get 13 or 14. Porcello + Fister was 60 GS and about 36 QS. Porcello + Fister in 60 GS might be 32 (18 + 14). That is a drop of 4 Quality Starts next year. Did we improve the offense to make up for it?

Additionally, gone from the bullpen in Benoit, Smyly, Veras, Dotel, Downs and Valverde/Bonderman. Replaced with just 39-yr old Nathan and Krol, so far.

Really??? Someone thinks we are just as good with Porcello over Fister and we aren't really losing much?

Did the words just as good or better as a team ever cross my post there? I am simply stating he was our fourth starter and just a notch better than the person replacing him. As a whole no I don't think the team is better UNLESS they sign Choo and 1 more BP arm which I believe in at least MY opinion would make us a better suited team overall.
 
Also, there are 43 pitchers in all of baseball that have started at least 89 games over the last 3 years and DET had 5 of them.

Additionally, DET in 2013 only used 6 starters. The only other team that I know of that accomplished so few starters was the 1970 BAL, and that was an age where starters would start 40 games.

I do not think DET will be able to only have 6 starters in 2014. Injuries happen and DET has been far too lucky with their starters.

DET # of starters (29 or more GS)

13 = 6 (5)
12 = 10 (3)
11 = 10 (4)
10 = 11 (3)
09 = 12 (3)
08 = 10 (2)
07 = 12 (2)
06 = 8 (4)
05 = 10 (4)
04 = 7 (4)
03 = 10 (2)
02 = 13 (2)
01 = 13 (2)
00 = 10 (3)
99 = 10 (3)
98 = 11 (2)
97 = 12 (2)
96 = 16 (1)
95 = 11 (0) Strike 144 GS
94 = 10 (0) Strike 115 GS
93 = 9 (3)
92 = 12 (2)
91 = 11 (3)
90 = 13 (2)
89 = 15 (2)
88 = 9 (4)
87 = 8 (3)
86 = 9 (3)
85 = 9 (3)
84 = 10 (3)
83 = 11 (2)
82 = 13 (3)
 
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Did the words just as good or better as a team ever cross my post there? I am simply stating he was our fourth starter and just a notch better than the person replacing him. As a whole no I don't think the team is better UNLESS they sign Choo and 1 more BP arm which I believe in at least MY opinion would make us a better suited team overall.

The quote:

"It's whether Porcello can match or better Fister's #4 spot in the rotation and whether Smyly can match or better Porcello's #5 spot in the rotation."

Now, whether you meant it the way I took or not, I inferred you to mean (based on your including their 2nd half performances), that you though Porcello could replace Fister's performance and all Smyly would have to do is replace Porcello.

Really, Smyly is replacing Fister. Point blank.
 
IF we make another upgrade to the offense and bullpen what would you believe would be a "good year" for Smyly?
 
IF we make another upgrade to the offense and bullpen what would you believe would be a "good year" for Smyly?

First I do not think it matters one way or the other. The fact is probably Smyly is the 5th starter.

From that standpoint, regardless of ERA, WHIP or any metric, he needs to start at least 28 games and complete the 6th inning in 75% of those starts (21). He needs to give the team a chance of winning and NOT be a burden on the bullpen. Only pitching 4.3, 4.6, or 5 and giving up 1 or 2 runs probably looks great on the stat sheet for him, but it wears on the bullpen. I would be happy with 160-170 IP in 28 GS.
 
First I do not think it matters one way or the other. The fact is probably Smyly is the 5th starter.

From that standpoint, regardless of ERA, WHIP or any metric, he needs to start at least 28 games and complete the 6th inning in 75% of those starts (21). He needs to give the team a chance of winning and NOT be a burden on the bullpen. Only pitching 4.3, 4.6, or 5 and giving up 1 or 2 runs probably looks great on the stat sheet for him, but it wears on the bullpen. I would be happy with 160-170 IP in 28 GS.

Well on the plus side being followed by Verlander, Scherzer and Sanchez can only help the bullpen. I think though we will HAVE to get 200+ IP out of Porcello though this year which he hasn't did yet in his career.
 
Well on the plus side being followed by Verlander, Scherzer and Sanchez can only help the bullpen. I think though we will HAVE to get 200+ IP out of Porcello though this year which he hasn't did yet in his career.


It is about Games Started sometimes. If you only get 29 Games Started (what Porcello got last year), you would have to average 6.90 IP/GS. Only elite pitchers have that kind of rate.

Detroit Starter's last 3 years (2013)

Verlander (R) 7.01 IP/GS (6.42 IP/GS)

Fister (R) 6.55 IP/GS (6.49 IP/GS)

Sanchez (R) 6.24 IP/GS (6.28 IP/GS)

Scherzer (R) 6.15 IP/GS (6.70 IP/GS)

AL Average 5.94 IP/GS (5.89 IP/GS)

Penny (R) 5.86 IP/GS

Porcello (R) 5.84 IP/GS (5.95 IP/GS)


Coke (L) 5.33 IP/GS

Smyly (L) 5.28 IP/GS


Oliver (L) 4.83 IP/GS

Alvarez (L) 4.67 IP/GS

Turner (R) 4.17 IP/GS

Below (L) 4.11 IP/GS

Crosby (L) 4.11 IP/GS

Furbush (L) 3.67 IP/GS

Wilk (L) 3.67 IP/GS

Notice the amount of lefties we had tried in the last 3 years and where they rank for IP/GS.

Porcello needs to average around 6.00 IP/GS or higher. If he gets 32 starts, that puts him at 192+ Innings.

If Smyly gets 28 starts:

5.25 IP/GS = 147 Innings
5.50 IP/GS = 154 Innings
5.75 IP/GS = 161 Innings

Smyly needs to be at 5.75 IP/GS or better for me to consider his 2014 a success. He might only pitch 150 Innings, but the rate has to be good.
 
I don't see him going 5.75 per start. In-fact I don't Smyly pitching more than 6 innings much at all. Production from Fister to Smyly will be huge.
 
It is about Games Started sometimes. If you only get 29 Games Started (what Porcello got last year), you would have to average 6.90 IP/GS. Only elite pitchers have that kind of rate.

Detroit Starter's last 3 years (2013)

Coke (L) 5.33 IP/GS

Smyly (L) 5.28 IP/GS


Oliver (L) 4.83 IP/GS

Alvarez (L) 4.67 IP/GS

Turner (R) 4.17 IP/GS

Below (L) 4.11 IP/GS

Crosby (L) 4.11 IP/GS

Furbush (L) 3.67 IP/GS

Wilk (L) 3.67 IP/GS


Notice the amount of lefties we had tried in the last 3 years and where they rank for IP/GS.

Porcello needs to average around 6.00 IP/GS or higher. If he gets 32 starts, that puts him at 192+ Innings.

If Smyly gets 28 starts:

5.25 IP/GS = 147 Innings
5.50 IP/GS = 154 Innings
5.75 IP/GS = 161 Innings

Smyly needs to be at 5.75 IP/GS or better for me to consider his 2014 a success. He might only pitch 150 Innings, but the rate has to be good.

Wow...Detroit has certainly run out some REALLY shitty LH pitchers recently!!
 
There is a huge dropoff from Fister to Smyly. DD likely expects more IP and IP per game from Ricky P and Drew, so that will place both over the .league average to some degree.

Moreso than in any other recent season, it looks like the '14 team might be overloaded with risks and gambles by Dombrowski in every area, SP, RP, bench, IF, OF, and 3B defense. Losing Infante, Fielder, Santiago, Pena, and Peralta is a sizable chunk of offense that will be "replaced" by the production of perhaps Kinsler, Iglesais, Holaday, Lonbardozzi, and Castellanos.

That also does not take into consideration the potential for regression by a few if not more vets, some who are aging.
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