Fister Traded, now is retiring from baseball

[Rebbiv]

Miggy is one of the 2 best players in baseball. Fister MIGHT be a top 30 pitcher. One of the best players in the game is going to command more than a top 100 prospect. There is more to the Fister trade as well. Fister was going to cost about $14-$16M over the next two seasons. If Ray can become a starter he will cost the Tigers about $2-4M over the next 3 seasons (just a guess). Ray doesn't even have to be as good as Fister to make the trade a push/win for the Tigers.

I will respectively disagree.

There are 154 MLB starters who have pitched at least 130 IP Away over the last 3 years:

#1 = 1-30
#2 = 31-60
#3 = 61-90
#4 = 91-120
#5 = 121-150

Innings Pitched
1 - Verlander
19 - Scherzer
23 - Fister
29 - Sanchez
41 - Porcello

xFIP
6 - Verlander
9 - Scherzer
19 - Sanchez
22 - Fister
43 - Porcello

wOBA
4 - Verlander
30 - Sanchez
37 - Scherzer
38 - Fister
92 - Porcello


2011-2013 MLB Total (152 Starters with at least 250 IP)

Wins
1 - Verlander
2 - Scherzer
28 - Porcello
35 - Fister
53 - Sanchez

Innings Pitcher
1 - Verlander
23 - Scherzer
29 - Fister
33 - Sanchez
45 - Porcello

xFIP
12 - Sanchez
17 - Verlander
18 - Scherzer
27 - Fister
46 - Porcello

WPA/LI
2 - Verlander
13 - Scherzer
15 - Fister
29 - Sanchez
87 - Porcello

 

[tomdalton22]

Some guys that didn’t meet your inning criteria that are probably better than Fister:

Jose Fernandez
Matt Harvey
Strasburg
Jin Ryu
Shelby Miller
Teheran
Tanaka
Ventura
Gray

 

[Rebbiv]

Some guys that didn?t meet your inning criteria that are probably better than Fister:

Jose Fernandez
Matt Harvey
Strasburg
Jin Ryu
Shelby Miller
Teheran
Tanaka
Ventura
Gray

So what they don't qualify? And in a year, they will, but guys like Halladay and Pettitte won't. It is all a wash.

Whether you agree with or not, Fister has been in the top 20% of starting pitchers over the last 3 years. That's a fact. Top 20% for positions players is in the top 6 at their position. Only Cabrera qualifies, yet, arguably, going into this off season, the Tigers had 4 starters in the top 20% and they did not get return for one of them.

 

[tomdalton22]

So what they don't qualify? And in a year, they will, but guys like Halladay and Pettitte won't. It is all a wash.

Whether you agree with or not, Fister has been in the top 20% of starting pitchers over the last 3 years. That's a fact. Top 20% for positions players is in the top 6 at their position. Only Cabrera qualifies, yet, arguably, going into this off season, the Tigers had 4 starters in the top 20% and they did not get return for one of them.

but those guys are all better than Fister and Holliday and Pettitte aren't. It really doesn't matter too much though...he is near the top 30 but I feel he is outside that area. I think we are probably splitting hairs on that.

As far as not getting return...we still don't know. I never said they got what they should because we don't know what Ray will turn into.

 

[Rebbiv]

but those guys are all better than Fister and Holliday and Pettitte aren't. It really doesn't matter too much though...he is near the top 30 but I feel he is outside that area. I think we are probably splitting hairs on that.

As far as not getting return...we still don't know. I never said they got what they should because we don't know what Ray will turn into.

Not all of them. Not even close. Come on Tom if you think a hurt Harvey or some of those that pitch in a pitcher friendly park is as good or better than Fister, I have no rational point you will listen to.

Stop with defense of Ray. The guy has not even been a Top 100 prospect and you think there might be a chance he is going to be as good as Fister? That is some serious blind faith.

 

[tomdalton22]

Not all of them. Not even close. Come on Tom if you think a hurt Harvey or some of those that pitch in a pitcher friendly park is as good or better than Fister, I have no rational point you will listen to.

Stop with defense of Ray. The guy has not even been a Top 100 prospect and you think there might be a chance he is going to be as good as Fister? That is some serious blind faith.

I never said he has to be as good as Fister. He can be a worse starter but if he is a starter for the Tigers for more than 2-3 years with a cheap salary it will be a good trade. As far as those pitchers I mentioned...I would take any of them over Fister given age & ability.

 

[Rebbiv]

I never said he has to be as good as Fister. He can be a worse starter but if he is a starter for the Tigers for more than 2-3 years with a cheap salary it will be a good trade. As far as those pitchers I mentioned...I would take any of them over Fister given age & ability.

So if he is a Dontrell Willis or Nate Robertson for 2-3 years it is a good trade?

 

[tomdalton22]

So if he is a Dontrell Willis or Nate Robertson for 2-3 years it is a good trade?

no, of course not. He just has to be a serviceable starter. Someone like Porcello will be fine.

 

[Rebbiv]

no, of course not. He just has to be a serviceable starter. Someone like Porcello will be fine.

Then you want him to be at least a #3? You are changing your tune if that is the case.

 

[tomdalton22]

Then you want him to be at least a #3? You are changing your tune if that is the case.

Porcello is the Tigers #4...that is what Ray needs to be for the Tigers.

 

[Rebbiv]

Porcello is the Tigers #4...that is what Ray needs to be for the Tigers.

Porcello the Tiger's #4, yes. But he is a MLB #3, with a potential to be a #2.

Again, you are still having high expectations for someone prior to the trade that most scouts projected to be at best a #4 and most likely a LOOGY.

 

[mhughes0021]

who the **** is fister?

 

[Mitchrapp]

who the **** is fister?

Huh?

:hmm:

 

[mhughes0021]

Huh?

:hmm:

smyly pwns fister

 

[Mitchrapp]

smyly pwns fister

Yeah okay..:ashamed:

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Stop with defense of Ray. The guy has not even been a Top 100 prospect and you think there might be a chance he is going to be as good as Fister? That is some serious blind faith.

Robbie Ray IS a top 100 prospect (97) as of this past January. He was also the highest ranked pitching prospect traded this past off-season. Teams aren't trading young pitchers with promise anymore. I think he was the best the Tigers could do if they wanted a guy with minor league options and the ability to spot start in the majors.

If the end-all-be-all is being a top 100 prospect one would ask "Was Fister ever a top prospect?" Nope...So much for that metric...

Doesn't matter how many numbers you crunch you have no idea if Ray will be better or worse than Fister. I'm putting my "blind faith" in DD's ability to find quality pitchers that others say "meh" to (Scherzer, Fister, Sanchez).

 

[Mitchrapp]

Robbie Ray IS a top 100 prospect (97) as of this past January. He was also the highest ranked pitching prospect traded this past off-season. Teams aren't trading young pitchers with promise anymore. I think he was the best the Tigers could do if they wanted a guy with minor league options and the ability to spot start in the majors.

If the end-all-be-all is being a top 100 prospect one would ask "Was Fister ever a top prospect?" Nope...So much for that metric...

Doesn't matter how many numbers you crunch you have no idea if Ray will be better or worse than Fister. I'm putting my "blind faith" in DD's ability to find quality pitchers that others say "meh" to (Scherzer, Fister, Sanchez).

Those 3 were all established major leagues. I'll lump in Ray with the young talent (prospect) DD brings in which would include the draft and he's not that good (as our ml system current shows).

Oh btw, who said meh to Fister , the dude was getting it done with Seattle. That was a win trade at first glance (we basically gave up a a Miggy broken bat and some pine tar) Most know Sanchez was good and the trade worth it if he had resigned in-which be did. The only unsure was Max, at least with me anyway.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Those 3 were all established major leagues. I'll lump in Ray with the young talent (prospect) DD brings in which would include the draft and he's not that good (as our ml system current shows).

Oh btw, who said meh to Fister , the dude was getting it done with Seattle. That was a win trade at first glance (we basically gave up a a Miggy broken bat and some pine tar) Most know Sanchez was good and the trade worth it if he had resigned in-which be did. The only unsure was Max, at least with me anyway.

I only refer to them identifying talent. DD has found pitchers. Draft, FA or Trades he has kept a good staff in Detroit for almost a decade.

Fister was 3-12 (with bad run support) and was looked at as a 5th starter and nothing more with Detroit at the time of the trade. Furbush, Casper Wells, Francisco Martinez and Chance Ruffin. Pauley was also part of the trade and WAS having an amazing season until he got here. We sent a boat load of crap (Furbush wasn't a starter, who knew he'd flourish in the BP?) and didn't appear to have much competition for him at the time.

So when I say "meh" I mean Fister wasn't viewed by baseball at the time as someone who would start a revolt if ever traded again. I think Fister is going to switch to RF and hit like Babe Ruth with the way people talk about how bad the trade was.

 

[Rebbiv]

It is funny how your first two posts are in two different threads, attacking something I had posted.

Anyways...there are two credible prospect website, Baseball Prospectus and Baseball America. Can you find where Robbie Ray is in the Top 100 at either site?

Fister is a proven commodity, which has more value than pitcher who until the trade didn't project any higher than a #4-5 Starter, and that is only IF he developed a viable secondary or tertiary pitch.

And you are dead wrong about the Fister trade. He was viewed to be a #2-3 starter. I don't know where you get the #5 crap.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I only refer to them identifying talent. DD has found pitchers. Draft, FA or Trades he has kept a good staff in Detroit for almost a decade.

Fister was 3-12 (with bad run support) and was looked at as a 5th starter and nothing more with Detroit at the time of the trade. Furbush, Casper Wells, Francisco Martinez and Chance Ruffin. Pauley was also part of the trade and WAS having an amazing season until he got here. We sent a boat load of crap (Furbush wasn't a starter, who knew he'd flourish in the BP?) and didn't appear to have much competition for him at the time.

So when I say "meh" I mean Fister wasn't viewed by baseball at the time as someone who would start a revolt if ever traded again. I think Fister is going to switch to RF and hit like Babe Ruth with the way people talk about how bad the trade was.

Records mean little. I loved the trade immediately. He was a top 20 starter in the AL. In return for him we got a SS who we traded for another SS and right now have neither :nod: We have what looks like a loogy in Krol and it all depends on Ray. And the fact we lost Smyly from the BP. The way the other GMs around the league sounded, no one else knew Fister was even available. It's almost like DD rushed it..

On paper the deal smells.

Btw, DD and the draft :lmao: A few pitchers, some overpay and because of that dropped to us. As far as hitters, nothing. Grandy and so far that's it, maybe Nick but that's way too early. It's why as a franchise, ml system is ranked what, 28-29?