Fister Traded, now is retiring from baseball

[biggunsbob]

I think he has whiffed before for sure. I loved Jurjens...Turned out he didn't whiff as bad as we initially thought.

I'm obviously in the minority, but given the market I am happy with what he got out of Fister. Fister was found money in a way and he was able to use it for another roll of the long-term dice on Robbie Ray. You know the Nationals would have said no if it was Porcello instead of Fister in that deal.

I never wanted to trade Porcello... I am in the minority on Rick but I still think he has not hit his ceiling.. I understand a deal had to be made... I just believe we should have gotten more for Fister..

 

[UMRules06]

What young pitcher from another organization do you think they could have gotten? Or what player out there do you think (of those traded this offseason) would you have wanted instead?

For me, it doesn't matter what other players DD "could" have gotten, or who we wanted him to get. The majority of experts and other fans share my opinion, that the Tigers got the raw end of the deal in this trade. If that turns out to be the case, then DD should not have pulled the trigger. Period. You don't trade two dollars for a quarter just because that's the best deal anyone's offering you.

Now having said all that, we still need to wait and see on Ray. Perhaps Fister will decline as well. The jury is still out.

 

[Thumb]

He is a three on most teams

Well, let's see...


AL West:

Angels, he is likely #2 behind Weaver and ahead of Wilson.
Astros, he is their #1.
A's, he is their #1 likely but at worst #2
Rangers, likely #3
Mariners, #3

AL Central:

Twins, #1 hands down.
Royals, likely #1 at worst #2.
W. Sox, #2.
Indians, #2 or #3
Tigers, #4 only because of our depth.

AL East:

R. Sox, #3
Rays, #3
Yankees, could be as high as #2 or as low as #4 depends on Tanaka and CC
Blue Jays, #2 easily.
Orioles, #1

NL West:

Giants, #2 or #3
Dodgers # 3
Dbacks #1
Padres #2, possibly #1
Rockies, #1

NL Central

Cubs, #1
Pirates #2
Brewers #1 or #2
Reds, #3
Cards, #3

NL East:

Mets, #2
Marlins, #2
Phillies, #2 or #3
Braves, #2
Nationals, #3 or #4

Only about 10 teams out of 30 have 2 starters that are better then Fister, not counting the Tigers, if we wanted young talent, we should have traded to one of the other 18 who would have put far more value in Fister.

People around here tend to naturally discount Fister because he was in a rotation that had a CY-MVP, a CY, and an ERA winner. Now once again, I don;t have a problem with trading Fister (or Max, or JV, or anyone) as long as we get fair value for him, which I don't believe we did.

 

[biggunsbob]

Again we all act like DD has not whiffed before.. He has...But Fister is hurt now and if Ray pitches great this year DD wins again.. Still does not mean he should have gotten more for Doug..

 

[UMRules06]

I'll admit I was puzzled and frothing at the mouth at the time of the deal. As the off-season progressed I noticed NOBODY was trading young talented pitching and that DD actually wound up with the best one. I am also in the lonely minority of being glad we have Krol as our situational lefty instead of Below, Coke or Downs...

The GM's that were puzzled by it DD already knew wouldn't trade who he wanted or he didn't want what they had (another righty)

You are not in the minority about Krol. I think he's done a good job so far. He's not enough though to make me happy about losing Fister though. I'm curious about Ray's start tonight so we'll see how he does.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

I never wanted to trade Porcello... I am in the minority on Rick but I still think he has not hit his ceiling.. I understand a deal had to be made... I just believe we should have gotten more for Fister..

I'm with you on Porcello. I'm saying that the Nationals thought enough of Ray that they wanted a guy like Fister before they'd throw him in.

Verlander, Sanchez, Porcello, Smyly and Ray. I think DD made the trade thinking this is what his rotation would look like in 2015 if he couldn't get Scherzer to re-up. He needed an option in the organization this year. I think the teams that say they would have given "more" would have given close to the same.

 

[Thumb]

From who and what?

NO TEAM IN BASEBALL TRADED A TOP 100 PITCHING PROSPECT in the offseason.

DD felt the organization needed depth at starter. Who disagrees? He looked at the market and likely asked about some top 100 prospects and was told no. He got the most he could at the time he needed to. Why would teams trade a potential top of the rotation guy for a middle of the rotation older guy (with two years left on his contract)?

Does that mean no team would have if offered the right deal? what you are claiming is not valid.

 

[Thumb]

We don't know what type of inquiries DD made, and the way the trade went down it was widely speculated that Dombrowski did not ask around enough, and simply took one of the first offers he got. This is simply based on the return the Tigers got back for Fister, and many GMs were puzzled by it. http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140215/SPORTS0104/302150051

No, several anonymous GM's reported at the winter meetings that talking among themselves nobody else was aware Fister was available, and DD had not shopped him.

Plenty of articles cite this if you feel like searching for them. Several are in KC's links likely.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Does that mean no team would have if offered the right deal? what you are claiming is not valid.

I'm claiming exactly what happened. For whatever reason, no team saw it to be in their best interests to trade a top 100 pitching prospect this off season. There is no way to dispute that fact.

What part isn't valid? You are the one using a hypothetical as proof.

 

[UMRules06]

No, several anonymous GM's reported at the winter meetings that talking among themselves nobody else was aware Fister was available, and DD had not shopped him.

Plenty of articles cite this if you feel like searching for them. Several are in KC's links likely.

You are right, I was going off memory and I had it mixed up.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

No, several anonymous GM's reported at the winter meetings that talking among themselves nobody else was aware Fister was available, and DD had not shopped him.

Plenty of articles cite this if you feel like searching for them. Several are in KC's links likely.

I'm sure DD knew those GM's rosters and farm systems and had asked about enough players in the past and was shut down. I read the same articles as you. I laughed at the time too because the way things work in baseball those GM's "complaining" they didn't get a shot at Fister was a way of cutting on DD who has eaten more than a few of their lunches.

 

[Thumb]

I'm claiming exactly what happened. For whatever reason, no team saw it to be in their best interests to trade a top 100 pitching prospect this off season. There is no way to dispute that fact.

What part isn't valid? You are the one using a hypothetical as proof.

You're saying nobody was willing to trade a top 100 pitching prospect....but there are two sides to a trade, you have to be offered something of value for one of those, because it didn't happen does not mean it could not have.

Fact is there weren't many trades this winter at all, probably why the Fister deal got so much attention.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

You're saying nobody was willing to trade a top 100 pitching prospect....but there are two sides to a trade, you have to be offered something of value for one of those, because it didn't happen does not mean it could not have.

Fact is there weren't many trades this winter at all, probably why the Fister deal got so much attention.

That's my point. There were few trades because people aren't moving prospects like before. Given the financial structure of baseball you need some $500k guys to play key roles on your team. DD was hoping he could squeeze two or three of those guys out of this trade.

I like the deal and have had fun discussing it with everyone. Not trying to troll or argue needlessly. I appreciate all of the input and look forward to analyzing it again in December...

 

[Thumb]

I'm sure DD knew those GM's rosters and farm systems and had asked about enough players in the past and was shut down. I read the same articles as you. I laughed at the time too because the way things work in baseball those GM's "complaining" they didn't get a shot at Fister was a way of cutting on DD who has eaten more than a few of their lunches.

This post sums it up. The first four words really. You like DD and that's fine, and you're willing to eat horseshit if he calls it hamburger helper.

Personally, I think DD has made some good moves, but he's also made some bad ones, and he drafts poorly, and is not as great as people think. the Way you talk about him maybe I should check and see if HE has won a CY.

 

[Thumb]

That's my point. There were few trades because people aren't moving prospects like before. Given the financial structure of baseball you need some $500k guys to play key roles on your team. DD was hoping he could squeeze two or three of those guys out of this trade.

I like the deal and have had fun discussing it with everyone. Not trying to troll or argue needlessly. I appreciate all of the input and look forward to analyzing it again in December...

I don't think you can say prospects are not really moving, after all the Rays got Will Meyers last year.

But it could be nobody was parting with players teams were willing to trade prospects for?

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

This post sums it up. The first four words really. You like DD and that's fine, and you're willing to eat horseshit if he calls it hamburger helper.

Personally, I think DD has made some good moves, but he's also made some bad ones, and he drafts poorly, and is not as great as people think. the Way you talk about him maybe I should check and see if HE has won a CY.

That's awesome, right in to a personal attack! You know very little about me except my feelings about one DD trade and you're gonna make a blanket erroneous statement from it.

So you hate anything DD does and think a GM who consistently has his team at the top of his League is doing a bad job? Got it. Great analysis.

DD is one of the best GM's in baseball. That's not my opinion, his numbers show it. Good luck refuting it...

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

I don't think you can say prospects are not really moving, after all the Rays got Will Meyers last year.

But it could be nobody was parting with players teams were willing to trade prospects for?

Two years ago the Myers trade happened. It also bears mentioning that Meyers isn't a pitcher which is the crux of the argument.

Fister wasn't worth other team's pitching prospects is what your second sentence says. Which is how the Tigers get Ray.

 

[Thumb]

That's awesome, right in to a personal attack! You know very little about me except my feelings about one DD trade and you're gonna make a blanket erroneous statement from it.

So you hate anything DD does and think a GM who consistently has his team at the top of his League is doing a bad job? Got it. Great analysis.

DD is one of the best GM's in baseball. That's not my opinion, his numbers show it. Good luck refuting it...

That's not really a personal attack at all. And I'm sure payroll has something to do with all that success as well.

 

[Thumb]

Two years ago the Myers trade happened. It also bears mentioning that Meyers isn't a pitcher which is the crux of the argument.

Fister wasn't worth other team's pitching prospects is what your second sentence says. Which is how the Tigers get Ray.

The crux of this reply was about prospects in general, not just pitching.

No my second sentence just refutes you saying no top prospects were available.

Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. We don't know because DD didn't ask anyone else, and no other big name players really got traded.

 

[gotime909]

If those gm's didn't know Fister was available it was probably because they didn't have a prospect that DD was targeting. I read an interview after the trade that DD said he had a list of players(somewhere between 15-20 if I remember correctly) that he wanted.