Fister Traded, now is retiring from baseball

[Rebbiv]

WOW...let's judge all MLB starters after their first two MLB starts.

Starter X 11.1 IP 1.77 WHIP 7.15 ERA












Starter X = Verlander

 

[stonecold2136]

WOW...let's judge all MLB starters after their first two MLB starts.

Starter X 11.1 IP 1.77 WHIP 7.15 ERA












Starter X = Verlander

At least Ray has helped his team win 1 game and put his position to win in the other in his first 2 games.

After this trade happened you would have held higher reguard to a coffee can full of flaming shit, than Ray and Krol.

Krol has been helping his team in high leverage situations and has helped the Detroit bullpen become one of the best since the 1984 tigers pen. We all know what happened that year.

The way the bullpen has looked over the last 10 days is nothing short of amazing. They have turned it around.

Hernandez = Nathan
Lopez = Chamberlain
Bair = Krol
Scherrer = Reed

This team is going all the way this year. I could care less if you think they will or not.

Last year we woulda at least made it to the World Series if it wasn't for 1 bad pitch made by Veras and one bad pitch made by Benoit.

I still find is hard to accept that thumb wanted DD or as he calls him Dumbrowski to pick up Jose Veras option. That woulda been a huge mistake.

No one would even offer him a contract until the cubs finally did. His stats this year are as follows

IP 5.2 ER 10 BB 10 K 5 WHIP 2.82 ERA 15.88

Veras has been on the DL for the whole month of May

I just don't understand what makes Thumb so smart to go after DD for not signing this turd. When he is not even capable of managing a little league team.

You guys need to back right off of going after Dombrowski. He turned our organization into a winner

 

[Thumb]

Robby Ray stats 2 GS 11.1 IP 0.97 WHIP 0.79 ERA.

DD pulls off another excellent trade.

Fister looks terrible this year. Looks like a player in decline. Nice to unload his big contract cause it would have hurt the team this year.

Fister's 2013 High WHIP was nothing to ignore

Big contract?

 

[Thumb]

Looks like Dumbrowski is so dumb after all.

I agree with you for once. Even if it's just you making a typo.

 

[gotime909]

Robby Ray stats 2 GS 11.1 IP 0.97 WHIP 0.79 ERA.

DD pulls off another excellent trade

.

Fister looks terrible this year. Looks like a player in decline. Nice to unload his big contract cause it would have hurt the team this year.

Fister's 2013 High WHIP was nothing to ignore

I've been one of the few "wait and see" guys regarding the trade. Having said that, I'm still in wait and see mode. But I'm much happier seeing 2 very good starts from Ray. But it is only 2 starts...hopefully it's enough to quite some of the DD bashers for a bit though.

 

[Thundercats]

Sorry. Fister's contract was simply a bargain. $7 million or less for a top 30 pitcher. Don't give me this shit about who used to be better or who may be better in the future. For the past 3 years, he's been a top 30 pitcher. Robbie Ray does look like a future number 2 or 3 starter, but that's going based on command and stuff alone. In order to achieve Fister value, he'll have to get that breaking ball consistently and throw his changeup on the outside black. I don't think he's a world beater, but I certainly don't think he's only a LOOGY either. He's definitely a starter. Fact remains, we gave up a lot for possibly a little bit.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Sorry. Fister's contract was simply a bargain. $7 million or less for a top 30 pitcher. Don't give me this shit about who used to be better or who may be better in the future. For the past 3 years, he's been a top 30 pitcher. Robbie Ray does look like a future number 2 or 3 starter, but that's going based on command and stuff alone. In order to achieve Fister value, he'll have to get that breaking ball consistently and throw his changeup on the outside black. I don't think he's a world beater, but I certainly don't think he's only a LOOGY either. He's definitely a starter. Fact remains, we gave up a lot for possibly a little bit.

What more would Ray needed to have done to look like a "world beater"? Giving up few hits and one run - keeping running game in check when runners got on. He had a poise that seems unnatural for a 22 year old. I promised myself I wouldn't get too excited one way or the other but I liked how he pitched today.

Riddle me this, if Fister has two mediocre seasons and Ray continues to progress as he is (you said 2 or 3 starter when earlier in this thread people made him sound like nothing more than middle relief) will you give props to DD for keen appraisal of talent or call it "luck"? He did INSIST on RR in the deal.

 

[Thumb]

What more would Ray needed to have done to look like a "world beater"? Giving up few hits and one run - keeping running game in check when runners got on. He had a poise that seems unnatural for a 22 year old. I promised myself I wouldn't get too excited one way or the other but I liked how he pitched today.

Riddle me this, if Fister has two mediocre seasons and Ray continues to progress as he is (you said 2 or 3 starter when earlier in this thread people made him sound like nothing more than middle relief) will you give props to DD for keen appraisal of talent or call it "luck"? He did INSIST on RR in the deal.

Prospects are always a gamble. DD may have been betting on Ray being very good even when most scouting reports had him as a middle to back end starter, and he might have rolled a 7 there (it's been 2 starts), but I don't think DD knew anything special. If he did, why wouldn't more of our players drafted by him have worked out better.


That does not change the fact that he traded a proven top end pitcher for a prospect, a reliever, and a poor man's Don Kelly.

Also, and this is my big reason for hating the trade....We need to win now. not in 2 years when Ray may be in the rotation full time. Now; because Victor and Torii, and Max are gone after this year. Torii may not be worth resigning, and Victor may be too expensive, Max will be for sure. We gave up 2 years of Fister being CHEAP (don't understand the guy who thinks we unloaded a huge contract) simply because DD wanted Smyly in the rotation, which weakened an already iffy bullpen. If we were going to do that we should have gotten a player who could have added everyday impact, a position player preferably a corner OF.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Now we're getting somewhere.

Which corner outfielder do you think Fister would bring back? There are a finite number of them (I am assuming you wanted one already in the majors) we likely wouldn't trade Fister in the division so that reduces the number of potentiates.

As far as minimizing his aptitude at finding pitching, if Fister is the Alpha and Omega of pitchers then DD deserves credit for acquiring him for scrap.

 

[Thumb]

Now we're getting somewhere.

Which corner outfielder do you think Fister would bring back? There are a finite number of them (I am assuming you wanted one already in the majors) we likely wouldn't trade Fister in the division so that reduces the number of potentiates.

As far as minimizing his aptitude at finding pitching, if Fister is the Alpha and Omega of pitchers then DD deserves credit for acquiring him for scrap.

You assume I don't credit DD for the good moves he made. I do, absolutely. But I don't give him carte blanche like so many here do. When he makes a poor trade, or does a poor job in other areas I don't hold on to one or two transactions that were positive, I judge them all on their own merits.

I have previously said I liked the trade for Iglesias, and still do. I give DD credit for trading away Garcia and getting us a dynamic shortstop.

Also your tactic of saying "Which corner outfielder do you think Fister would bring back?" is not really relevant. We will never know who might have been available had Fister been openly shopped to all 29 other teams, and it would impossible to speculate. But I do believe we traded from a position of strength and depth, and did not address our main concerns, which has been outfield power for a couple seasons now. He got us a prospect (who may or may not turn out to be a serviceable starter), a lefty who should only pitch to lefties *cough* LOOGY *cough* (.957 career OPS to RHB), and a below replacement level utility player on a team full of utility players, for one of the top 30 starting pitchers for the last 3 years. Sorry if it pains you, or that stonecold kid who seems to take it very personally if people don't worship DD like a Roman Caeser, that not everyone here is willing to put blind trust in every move Dombrowski makes. It must further bother you guys that the overwhelming majority of the baseball world agrees with us on this point.

 

[Thumb]

Krol has been helping his team in high leverage situations and has helped the Detroit bullpen become one of the best since the 1984 tigers pen. We all know what happened that year.

Holy LOL! Did you really type that? I missed it the first read though. The team that is currently 28th out of 30 MLB teams in bullpen ERA? And 26th in Runs scored/9?

Look, I understand rooting for your team and all....but c'mon!

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Wow man. I just asked what corner outfieder YOU would have considered a fair trade. All the other stuff seems like it should be worked out in group or something. It's a simple baseball conversation not a strategy debate on Middle East policy. No pain on my side but thank you for the concern. Your assertion is that they should have gotten an outfielder, I want the name of the player you thin was of equal value to Fister. Seems easy enough.

It pains me none what the majority does. I don't make my decisions based on majority opinion, this is likely where we differ.

 

[jdeb]

Dirks is coming back.

 

[Rebbiv]

Holy LOL! Did you really type that? I missed it the first read though. The team that is currently 28th out of 30 MLB teams in bullpen ERA? And 26th in Runs scored/9?

Look, I understand rooting for your team and all....but c'mon!

Keep in mind, he is the same one that was all over exclaiming how great Lombardozzi is as a player. From Stonecold earlier in this thread.

I watched a lot of the Nationals games this year. Lombardozzi is not a piece of crap like so many think he is. His stats in the minors are great. Only thing he doesn't do is hit for power. Lombo has blazing speed which in my opinion could make him the lead off hitter.

In the minors his avg's in 3 important leadoff man categories are runs - 90 SB - 30 OBP .367

While he is not a flashy name, I am sure Lombo will become a fan favorite within the first month of the season. I am pretty stoked we got him. He was a favorite of GM Mike Rizzo. Also he doesn't cost squat as far as salary goes.

With the glut of middle infielders and the Nationals stacked in the outfield, Lombo was a man without a position. He was not an everyday player only due to this reason. His natural position is 2B. I think we could see Kinsler move over to 3B, Nick C will probably play LF or be traded for someone that can play LF.

 

[tomdalton22]

I've been one of the few "wait and see" guys regarding the trade. Having said that, I'm still in wait and see mode. But I'm much happier seeing 2 very good starts from Ray. But it is only 2 starts...hopefully it's enough to quite some of the DD bashers for a bit though.

it looks like it hasn't quieted them

 

[tomdalton22]

just in case anybody is wondering...Fister went 4 1/3 innings, gave up 3 HRs; WHIP 2.08; ERA 10.38

 

[Rebbiv]

just in case anybody is wondering...Fister went 4 1/3 innings, gave up 3 HRs; WHIP 2.08; ERA 10.38

First start since returning for injury. Was he rushed back? Is he still hurt?

Anyways, 1 or 2 starts do not make this trade.

 

[tomdalton22]

First start since returning for injury. Was he rushed back? Is he still hurt?

Anyways, 1 or 2 starts do not make this trade.

you are correct....and proclaiming that Ray is just going to be a back end rotation guy or LOOGY when he is only 22 years old is just as ridiculous as saying the trade is a win after 3 starts.

 

[Rebbiv]

you are correct....and proclaiming that Ray is just going to be a back end rotation guy or LOOGY when he is only 22 years old is just as ridiculous as saying the trade is a win after 3 starts.

Prior to the beginning of this year, that is what the majority of the scouts were saying. That, unless he DEVELOPED a solid secondary and tertiary pitch, he would project as a back end starter or LOOGY.

Do you know that he has successfully developed those pitches? It is highly unlikely that you can make a definitive statement this soon.

Sure, he is 22 years old and he can become whatver. However, this trade was based on a known top 30 Starter for basically 3 huge question marks. Now just 2 question marks.

 

[tomdalton22]

Prior to the beginning of this year, that is what the majority of the scouts were saying. That, unless he DEVELOPED a solid secondary and tertiary pitch, he would project as a back end starter or LOOGY.

Do you know that he has successfully developed those pitches? It is highly unlikely that you can make a definitive statement this soon.

Sure, he is 22 years old and he can become whatver. However, this trade was based on a known top 30 Starter for basically 3 huge question marks. Now just 2 question marks.

I have no idea...it appears that his secondary stuff has been better based on his results in Toledo and Detroit but the season is young. My biggest point is that at the age of 22 (the age of both Krol and Ray at the beginning of the season) they are going to develop.