Fister Traded, now is retiring from baseball

[SouthOfMackinac]

Prior to the beginning of this year, that is what the majority of the scouts were saying. That, unless he DEVELOPED a solid secondary and tertiary pitch, he would project as a back end starter or LOOGY.

Do you know that he has successfully developed those pitches? It is highly unlikely that you can make a definitive statement this soon.

Sure, he is 22 years old and he can become whatver. However, this trade was based on a known top 30 Starter for basically 3 huge question marks. Now just 2 question marks.

Dombrowski, the Tigers? president and general manager, spoke highly of the trio the Tigers received, especially Ray, in a teleconference on Monday night.?We think this guy is a premium, young, left-handed pitcher on the verge of pitching in the big leagues,? Dombrowski said. ?They?re not easy to find.? LINK That was December 4th, 2013.

Majority of scouts obviously didn't include the ones that work for your favorite MLB team. If DD hits on Ray I hope even DD antagonists will say "Good work" because the organization did its homework and made sure Ray was part of this trade.


ALSO FROM THE ARTICLE JUST FOR FUN AND FLAVOR


Dave Dombrowski learned the lesson long ago.
?Any time you trade the known for the unknown,? former general manager Roland Hemond told him, ?it won?t be a popular deal.?
Hemond told him this early in his career, after the 1984 season, when the pair, then with the Chicago White Sox, traded LaMarr Hoyt for a young Ozzie Guillen.
?Media and fans were all questionable about it,? he said. ?Any time you trade a guy that?s a solid big league performer, you anticipate that, but it doesn?t mean you don?t make the deal.?

 

[Thumb]

Of course Dombrowski spoke highly of the trio he received. Who makes a trade then says "Aw, I might have gotten hosed on this one, well better luck next time".

I'm sure he spoke highly of guys like Renteria, Washburn, and Huff as well.

If Ray works out to be an effective starter for us I'll be happy, I want our team to win. But I don't think I'm going to get on my knees and thank DD if he got one arm in about the last 15 right. To be perfectly honest, DD, Chadd, and Avila Sr. don't have a fantastic record when it comes to this kind of thing.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Of course Dombrowski spoke highly of the trio he received. Who makes a trade then says "Aw, I might have gotten hosed on this one, well better luck next time".

I'm sure he spoke highly of guys like Renteria, Washburn, and Huff as well.

If Ray works out to be an effective starter for us I'll be happy, I want our team to win. But I don't think I'm going to get on my knees and thank DD if he got one arm in about the last 15 right. To be perfectly honest, DD, Chadd, and Avila Sr. don't have a fantastic record when it comes to this kind of thing.

His comments were posted as refutation of "MOST scouts projected him as LOOGY or middle relief" DD didn't see him as that and he doesn't look like that thus far.

Renteria, Washburn and Huff was a long time ago now. You need more recent bad moves to have an effective argument. I liked the Washburn and Huff moves at the time. I hated Renteria trade the moment it was made and everyday since.

Isn't there a line between thinking "Good job" and "getting on my knees"? Hyperbole doesn't win arguments.

How can you say they don't have a fantastic record when they have assembled one of the best pitching staffs in baseball?

Verlander, Scherzer, Sanchez, Fister, Porcello, Smyly and now potentially Ray. Those are some darn fine starters. His selections of Turner and Miller also turned into valuable players for the team.

Comments like that make me think you might have a fanatical hatred for DD. There are 26 other teams in MLB that wish they could find pitchers in the draft or trade like DD has.

 

[tomdalton22]

I think this is the first trade of an established player for young prospects since the Granderson for Scherzer, Jackson, Coke and Schlerth. That one worked out great for the Tigers (even better if they would just release Coke)!

 

[jdeb]

2 starts will not tell you much. ray did not have good command in his second start but was impressive on over coming it. if he can throw strikes with command, he looks to be a back of the rotation guy in my eyes. sending him down shows you how good this rotation is. he looks close to being ready for the show. continue to work on command and pencil him in next year

 

[Thumb]

His comments were posted as refutation of "MOST scouts projected him as LOOGY or middle relief" DD didn't see him as that and he doesn't look like that thus far.

Renteria, Washburn and Huff was a long time ago now. You need more recent bad moves to have an effective argument. I liked the Washburn and Huff moves at the time. I hated Renteria trade the moment it was made and everyday since.

Isn't there a line between thinking "Good job" and "getting on my knees"? Hyperbole doesn't win arguments.

How can you say they don't have a fantastic record when they have assembled one of the best pitching staffs in baseball?

Verlander, Scherzer, Sanchez, Fister, Porcello, Smyly and now potentially Ray. Those are some darn fine starters. His selections of Turner and Miller also turned into valuable players for the team.

Comments like that make me think you might have a fanatical hatred for DD. There are 26 other teams in MLB that wish they could find pitchers in the draft or trade like DD has.

You lecture me about hyperbole while assuming I have a hatred of DD, and that I want tigers players to fail. Don't try to claim the high ground if you don't plan on standing on it yourself.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

You lecture me about hyperbole while assuming I have a hatred of DD, and that I want tigers players to fail. Don't try to claim the high ground if you don't plan on standing on it yourself.

Show me ONE instance where I said you wanted the Tigers to fail. You took the Ray comment personally when all I asked is if there might be people out there who would. That's not hyperbole (might want to look it up).

It isn't an assumption any longer when you make a comment like "He can't find pitchers." that is as absurd a statement as you can make about the Detroit Tigers. You know in your heart it is. I notice you didn't try to refute the facts but instead switched it to avoid having to say that DD has built one of the best staffs in baseball.

 

[Thumb]

Show me ONE instance where I said you wanted the Tigers to fail. You took the Ray comment personally when all I asked is if there might be people out there who would. That's not hyperbole (might want to look it up).

It isn't an assumption any longer when you make a comment like "He can't find pitchers." that is as absurd a statement as you can make about the Detroit Tigers. You know in your heart it is. I notice you didn't try to refute the facts but instead switched it to avoid having to say that DD has built one of the best staffs in baseball.

You put that in quotation marks. Did I actually say he can't find pitchers?

As far as the first sentence of your post:

Thanks KC. I like this topic as you can see. I like the analysis that so many put into their posts. The breakdown of 1s & 2s was very good. Not sure I agree with all the assumptions but I love the effort.

If people could discuss without deriding others it would seem a utopia but such is modern discourse, I reckon.

I do think in some LOYAL fans hearts there is a desire for Ray to do poorly so they can further justify their disdain for DD. I think it is GREAT that we have another prospect to watch so closely (Nick C all last season) and discuss. With how down on Ray people are isn't it amazing that he is far and away our best young pitching prospect? That's DD's fault too...

I HATED the trade when I first saw it. I'm PISSED that we gave Lombo away for less than a bucket of balls when Worth was the obvious choice. DD is also the barrier that keeps Coke on this team. The guy f's up plenty (and admits to it) I don't think the Fister trade was one of 'em. It all hinges on Ray though. He needs to be a 3.5 WAR pitcher by 2016 or DD didn't get enough back.

Delusional to think the DD haters don't want him to fail. Part of DD failing so you can pretend you were right along is Ray being a dud. Ergo, if you don't like DD as GM you want his moves to fail. I remember a time when I wanted the Lions to lose because I wanted Millen gone. hatred is a blinding thing and controls the subconscious.

I support one trade and am told "You'd eat horse shit if DD said it was hamburger helper." and somehow I'M the one taking it too personal? Classic.

He is a three on most teams and a good pitcher. Krol is a valuable part of the 2014 team. We'll know more about Ray soon enough. The Tigers got the best young pitcher that was traded this past off-season AND he's a lefty for a rotation and organization that needs more of them (see Coke, Phil). We may have wanted more (and I'm sure DD did) but people aren't giving up their young arms for older ones, why would they?

How many people are hoping Ray fails just so they can yell "SEE!!!"? It's okay if you're out there. I am anticipating tonight's game more than any to date.

Now you say, I am a DD hater, and according to your own post, DD haters, ergo; want his moves to fail, ergo; Ray/Krol to fail.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

You put that in quotation marks. Did I actually say he can't find pitchers?

As far as the first sentence of your post:









He is a three on most teams and a good pitcher. Krol is a valuable part of the 2014 team. We'll know more about Ray soon enough. The Tigers got the best young pitcher that was traded this past off-season AND he's a lefty for a rotation and organization that needs more of them (see Coke, Phil). We may have wanted more (and I'm sure DD did) but people aren't giving up their young arms for older ones, why would they?

How many people are hoping Ray fails just so they can yell "SEE!!!"? It's okay if you're out there. I am anticipating tonight's game more than any to date.


Now you say, I am a DD hater, and according to your own post, DD haters, ergo; want his moves to fail, ergo; Ray/Krol to fail.

I apologize, I shouldn't have put it in quotes, instead I should have used - to indicate a paraphrasing.

"I don't think I'm going to get on my knees and thank DD if he got one arm in about the last 15 right." Is your exact quote.

One arm in the last 15? That is a hater and an absurd comment unless you expect EVERY pitcher drafted to be in the major league rotation within three years.

What arms has he gotten wrong in the last 15? Brad Penny was the last starter he tabbed that was a failure. The BP needs help but he has found serviceable pitchers in trade and from the farm for it.

 

[Thumb]

I apologize, I shouldn't have put it in quotes, instead I should have used - to indicate a paraphrasing.

"I don't think I'm going to get on my knees and thank DD if he got one arm in about the last 15 right." Is your exact quote.

One arm in the last 15? That is a hater and an absurd comment unless you expect EVERY pitcher drafted to be in the major league rotation within three years.

What arms has he gotten wrong in the last 15? Brad Penny was the last starter he tabbed that was a failure. The BP needs help but he has found serviceable pitchers in trade and from the farm for it.

I was referring to arms he drafted/prospects in the part you just quoted. At this point only Smyly (as a reliever so far) would qualify as a hit since Porcello. DD and Chadd love to draft power arms, Perry, Schlereth, Turner, Crosby, Wilk, Furbush, G. Hernandez, Ruffin....that was the point I was making. and don't get me started on our position player drafting.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

I was referring to arms he drafted/prospects in the part you just quoted. At this point only Smyly (as a reliever so far) would qualify as a hit since Porcello. DD and Chadd love to draft power arms, Perry, Schlereth, Turner, Crosby, Wilk, Furbush, G. Hernandez, Ruffin....that was the point I was making. and don't get me started on our position player drafting.

Turner and Furbush were useful in trade as was Ruffin, you left Miller out. Schlereth was a throw-in (like you wanted from the Rangers). I don't think the point is valid. I don't mean to be unduly harsh.

Remember the days of Randy Smith? Or look in our division and see what other teams are developing and promoting. DD is pretty good and I must say I like his strategy of big hard-throwing guys. I think there is a correlation between that and the durability of our starters.

Our organization has been a wasteland for position players. I honestly think his strategy is draft pitching and trade for position players. He also collects catchers (he used Brantly for the Sanchez trade).

 

[tomdalton22]

just in case anybody is wondering...Fister went 4 1/3 innings, gave up 3 HRs; WHIP 2.08; ERA 10.38

second start was very good. 7 IP, 1 ER, 7K 0 BB

 

[stonecold2136]

Rebbiv I was wrong about Ray. Also Fister looks super good now that he is healthy. I will eat crow on this one. I still think Krol is a good relief pitcher though not just a loogy

 

[byco42]

Ray may be okay at some point but it was never an even deal.

 

[biggunsbob]

I wish Fister was starting today

 

[mjsb2]

Rebbiv I was wrong about Ray. Also Fister looks super good now that he is healthy. I will eat crow on this one. I still think Krol is a good relief pitcher though not just a loogy

lol

You flip flop on your position based on 3 starts for Ray?

 

[stonecold2136]

lol

You flip flop on your position based on 3 starts for Ray?

Ray faced a good team today. His stuff still needs polishing. He can still be a good pitcher down the road, it just won't be this year.

 

[Mitchrapp]

lol

You flip flop on your position based on 3 starts for Ray?

He basically flip flopped on 1 start, today.

 

[gotime909]

Rebbiv I was wrong about Ray. Also Fister looks super good now that he is healthy. I will eat crow on this one. I still think Krol is a good relief pitcher though not just a loogy

That trade was never about who was better right now.

 

[spockmaster]

edit: that pic looked a lot smaller on my phones browser haha