HoF, who should be in?

[tycobb420]

13 gold gloves. 1 silver slugger.

The gold gloves and 15 ASGs played a role though too. As did the HR in the 1985 playoffs.

Ozzie was a really good player, I just don't see how you can think Ozzie is a certain HOF and Vizquel shouldn't be in. No biggie though.

Also, if Jeter can win 5 GG's, it diminishes the award.

Ozzie has gravitas! lol It's a total package thing. I just see Vizquel as lacking a bit.

If Jeter and Ozzie were winning them at the same time in the same era, I would be more apt to agree with you on the last point.

 

[tycobb420]

13 gold gloves. 1 silver slugger.

The gold gloves and 15 ASGs played a role though too. As did the HR in the 1985 playoffs.

Ozzie was a really good player, I just don't see how you can think Ozzie is a certain HOF and Vizquel shouldn't be in. No biggie though.

Also, if Jeter can win 5 GG's, it diminishes the award.

PS: Usually, with the HOF, I see it this way.

Definitely HOF-er: Guys that pass the old eyeball test or have been doing it forever and reached milestones. (Jeter, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez).

Possible HOF-er: Guys that are tracking (Miguel Cabrera, Justin Verlander) or guys that are so-called "border line" (Schilling)

Not a HOF: Someone that it does not even cross my mind even if they are All-Star quality. (Andy Pettite, Omar Vizquel, Carlos Guillen).

 

[Rebbiv]

Another Baseball Reference HoF metric is Hall of Fame Standard. 50 or more is likely HoF. Same list above, with the other metric used.

T. Cobb 75
G. Sheffield 61
C. Ripken 58
I. Rodriguez 58
A. Kaline 58
J. Morgan 56
M. Mussina 54
R. Yount 52
B. Blyleven 50

C. Fisk 49
H. Greenberg 46
B. Larkin 47
A. Dawson 44
W. McCovey 44
W. Stargell 44
R. Sandberg 43
J. Rice 43
L. Whitaker 43
A. Pettitte 42
J. Bunning 42
M. Ordonez 42
G. Carter 41
O. Vizquel 41
R. Ashburn 41
N. Garciaparra 41
B. Doerr 41
E. Slaughter 41
T. Perez 41
A. Trammell 40

J. Morris 39
M. Cabrera 39
R. Campanella 39
P. Reese 39
J. Kendall 38
M. Lolich 37
O. Smith 35

H. Newhouser 34
R. Ferrell 34
L. Parrish 32
R. Schoendienst 30
L. Doby 30

G. Kell 29
N. Cash 29
B. Freehan 28
D. McLain 26
J. Verlander 25
W. Horton 23

B. Sutter 17
B. Mazeroski 16

T. Jones 3

 

[beez]

Ozzie was a really good player, I just don't see how you can think Ozzie is a certain HOF and Vizquel shouldn't be in. No biggie though.

Also, if Jeter can win 5 GG's, it diminishes the award.

PS: Usually, with the HOF, I see it this way.

Definitely HOF-er: Guys that pass the old eyeball test or have been doing it forever and reached milestones. (Jeter, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez).

Possible HOF-er: Guys that are tracking (Miguel Cabrera, Justin Verlander) or guys that are so-called "border line" (Schilling)

Not a HOF: Someone that it does not even cross my mind even if they are All-Star quality. (Andy Pettite, Omar Vizquel, Carlos Guillen).

Did you just put Guillen in the same breath as Vizquel?

 

[tycobb420]

PS: Usually, with the HOF, I see it this way.

Definitely HOF-er: Guys that pass the old eyeball test or have been doing it forever and reached milestones. (Jeter, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez).

Possible HOF-er: Guys that are tracking (Miguel Cabrera, Justin Verlander) or guys that are so-called "border line" (Schilling)

Not a HOF: Someone that it does not even cross my mind even if they are All-Star quality. (Andy Pettite, Omar Vizquel, Carlos Guillen).

Did you just put Guillen in the same breath as Vizquel?

and most of the other 17,000 men to play major league baseball!

 

[kalinesboy]

Everyone should make the HOF.

Yes Batcave,.... and they should be inducted right after that first little league game where no score is kept. Right after sports drinks and cookies. I am agreeing with ya dude!

 

[hellifino]

Omar Vizquel is probably the best defensive shortstop ever, and has compiled good numbers based on longevity. I think he's in easily and probably deserves it.

Ozzie was better defensively than Vizquel. I am sure he will end up in the HOF, but I would not vote for him unless he got to 3000 hits. (unless I change my mind-lol)

Ozzie played 75% of his games on artificial turf also. no way Visquel doesn't get in. Omar was the best SS I've ever seen.

 

[thehippo73]

Everyone should make the HOF.

Yes Batcave,.... and they should be inducted right after that first little league game where no score is kept. Right after sports drinks and cookies. I am agreeing with ya dude!

Can I have Aurelio Lopez do my induction intro? If he is not available, I will take Juan Berenguer.

 

[batcave76]

Everyone should make the HOF.

Yes Batcave,.... and they should be inducted right after that first little league game where no score is kept. Right after sports drinks and cookies. I am agreeing with ya dude!

My point is that the HOF shud be for the very best of the best. Not for guys that run their numbers up bc they've hung around forever. BTW that picture of God hung in our living room for yrs as kids. It was a pretty large frame and picture too. I've never seen any of my family or friends w/large God pics in their house, anywhere, these days.

 

[uofmpoweri]

This is a classic debate. We would all like our Tigers to be there. But, we tend to be bias in our evaluation (as do the voters).


G. Sheffield 156 Out for Steroids
A. Pettitte 123 Out for Steroids
J. Morris 122 Out for having an ERA of 3.90
M. Mussina 121 In, 350 wins if he was in a 4 man rotation
B. Larkin 120 Out, but borderline
O. Vizquel 120 In
A. Trammell 118 Should go
M. Cabrera 113 In if he keeps it up
M. Ordonez 112 out
N. Garciaparra 112 Out
J. Kendall 108 Error in the formula?
L. Parrish 107 Out, .250 hitters shouldnt go
M. Lolich 98 He can make a case
D. McLain 92 no way
L. Whitaker 92 Should go before Trammell
[B. Freehan 84 No
T. Jones 78 Hell no
J. Verlander 62 We will see in 10 years
N. Cash 50 No
W. Horton 30 No

Again, this is an attempt to be objective and not subjective. Certainly, Morris, Trammell and Parrish belong in the H0F.

The argument would be for Lolich, Whitaker and Freehan. The case would be if Bunning, why not Lolich? With Whitaker, it is Mazeroski.

 

[tycobb420]

This is a classic debate. We would all like our Tigers to be there. But, we tend to be bias in our evaluation (as do the voters).


G. Sheffield 156 Out for Steroids
A. Pettitte 123 Out for Steroids
J. Morris 122 Out for having an ERA of 3.90
M. Mussina 121 In, 350 wins if he was in a 4 man rotation
B. Larkin 120 Out, but borderline
O. Vizquel 120 In
A. Trammell 118 Should go
M. Cabrera 113 In if he keeps it up
M. Ordonez 112 out
N. Garciaparra 112 Out
J. Kendall 108 Error in the formula?
L. Parrish 107 Out, .250 hitters shouldnt go
M. Lolich 98 He can make a case
D. McLain 92 no way
L. Whitaker 92 Should go before Trammell
[B. Freehan 84 No
T. Jones 78 Hell no
J. Verlander 62 We will see in 10 years
N. Cash 50 No
W. Horton 30 No

Again, this is an attempt to be objective and not subjective. Certainly, Morris, Trammell and Parrish belong in the H0F.

The argument would be for Lolich, Whitaker and Freehan. The case would be if Bunning, why not Lolich? With Whitaker, it is Mazeroski.

Bunning was second in k's all time when he retired, pitched a no-hitter and a perfect game. He also had a 3.27ERA and a .549 win percentage. Lolich had a 3.44 ERA and .532 win percentage with no no-hitters, but he did have the '68 series. I always thought Lolich was borderline. I never really questioned Bunning.

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

surefire ins imo

Larkin
Pudge
Sheffield
Mussina

Omar Vizquel is an interesting case....I think you put him in imo.


with that said I see no reason to leave Morris out or Tram....I think both get in eventually.

Pettite will prob get in down the road but it will take some time.

 

[kalinecountry]

This is a classic debate. We would all like our Tigers to be there. But, we tend to be bias in our evaluation (as do the voters).

So, looking at Baseball References Hall of Fame Monitor (i don't necessarily like it, but it is a way to judge without bias).

Normally, score above 100 is a likely HoFer. I added former and current Tiger players, with a few "control" players added.

T. Cobb 445
C. Ripken 236
I. Rodriguez 226
H. Greenberg 188
J. Morgan 172
A. Kaline 160
R. Sandberg 158
G. Sheffield 156
J. Rice 144
O. Smith 142
H. Newhouser 140
G. Carter 135
R. Yount 132

A. Pettitte 123 Will get alot of votes as a yankee and postseason success
J. Morris 122 WAR and ERA don't coincide with the support, maybe late like Blyleven or Veterans
M. Mussina 121 very consistent pitcher one 20 win season, 270 wins eventually
B. Blyleven 120 obvious too long a wait, 287 wins 3700 k's and 60 shutouts, wtf.
C. Fisk 120 used to call him FF fisk
B. Larkin 120 very similar to Trammell gets in a long time for Tram does.
O. Vizquel 120 GG and fielding greatness, 2700/2800 hits seems like he is in
A. Trammell 118 As near good as larkin and getting 2 1/2 times less vote, Veterans.
A. Dawson 118 kind of borderline imo, but good for him power speed glove helped.
R. Ashburn 113 Did everything but hit homeruns 2500 hits, .308, 500 plus putout seasons as a CF
M. Cabrera 113 On his way with his all around hitting, watch a drop off early 30's if he doesn't watch his weight in 2/3 years.
M. Ordonez 112 Fine career, needs rounded off counting numbers 2500 hits and 300 homers for any chance.
N. Garciaparra 112 too many questions with peds and counting numbers way short.
R. Schoendienst 110 solid 2B
W. McCovey 110 No doubter.
R. Ferrell 109 one of the surprise votes.
R. Campanella 108 If not for terrible car accident even better numbers
J. Kendall 108 amazing.
L. Parrish 107 Power is there, and D, not much else. Rare player if he stayed with original team he has a better chance. See Fred Lynn.
W. Stargell 106 lots of power and beloved by fans.
P. Reese 100 Shortstop from 40's ground swell of support got him in

M. Lolich 98 Some times counting numbers are looked at more stringently chance for Veterans is low than others.
J. Bunning 98 Waited longer than necessary.
B. Doerr 96 Good 2B with good numbers
E. Slaughter 96 .300 hitter for 18 years and a thorn in Jackie Robinsons side when playing,
D. McLain 92 No,
L. Whitaker 92 Yes, His WAR and numbers are better than half the 2B in the HOF. Veterans.
B. Sutter 91 an original closer.
G. Kell 90 Made ir with Veterans, did everything but hit with power
B. Freehan 84 Yes, Lots of all-star games, best catcher in AL in pitchers era Veterans
T. Perez 81 Big rbi man for reds, rest of numbers worthy and non worthy
T. Jones 78 No.
L. Doby 76 First African Amercian player in the AL.
B. Mazeroski 71 Get in Veterans committee on Defense and a homerun
J. Verlander 62 On the road to the Hall of Fame, Health and continiued Excellence.
N. Cash 50 No, Cash was a consistent power hitter for his 14/15 years.
W. Horton 30 No, Willie did more for the Tigers than his numbers show.

Again, this is an attempt to be objective and not subjective. Certainly, Morris, Trammell and Parrish belong in the H0F.