I am fucking sick of Trump

[Spartanmack]

It makes a huge difference if the guy cutting your lawn or picking fruit speaks English. It's not that we don't like Mexicans, we just don't like people speaking Spanish, but we really like cheap labor!

I cut my own lawn but how about you ask the guy cutting your lawn if he wants his kids to learn English so they can aspire to be more than maids, landscapers and day workers. It's white liberals who want to teach math, history and literature to poor immigrant kids in Spanish to keep them poor and dependent on your government largesse so they'll keep voting for your side. And the other side is the one full of racists. You're the one who relies on a permanently poor class for votes, not conservatives.

 

[Spartanmack]

Union membership has sharply declined and so has the standard of living, but unions never really had a chance, companies were going to chase cheap labor once they had more access to it. We're supposed to be happy with this economic race to the bottom, where people make less money but we can buy cheaper and cheaper shit. Also, I've said many times that Hillary is status quo, she's in the back pocket of the 1%, just like every other candidate I've seen in my lifetime other than Bernie Sanders.

union membership has sharply declined because the rank and file have seen what it's done and how it's killed jobs and even entire industries. Things like ipods, computers and phones should be built with cheap labor - not everything needs to be made in America. You will never get Americans to overpay for goods - it just won't happen and it shouldn't. If wages were tied to value, you'd see a lot more industrial production here in the US - with labor earning wages that provide a high standard of living. Just look at non-union auto production in the US. It works and those laborers aren't working poor - they probably enjoy a higher standard of living than union autoworkers, certainly higher than laid off union autoworkers.

 

[Spartanmack]

So if the FBI recommended charging her, you'd say she's a criminal and she broke the law. the FBI recommends not charging her and the FBI is saying she's above the law, I guess your mind was made up from the begining, she was guilty in your mind no matter what they said.

Hillary and Bill had the money and connections to fly private whenever they wanted, either they would pay for it or they would lean on a huge donor/friend/influencer and it would happen, they didn't need the foundation for that. Are you saying that politicians don't show favoritism to the wealthy and powerful? oh my god, that's such a shocking revelation, that's completely exclusive to the Clintons, if she's defeated, then we don't have to worry about donors purchasing influence. it all stops if she loses.

she's a criminal and she broke the law. The FBI did not clear her of wrongdoing. Those are facts, so the fact that I repeat them doesn't hinge on my opinion of Hillary Clinton in any way.

I never said influence peddling was exclusive to the Clintons - i'm opposed to it from either party. I've been extremely critical of crony corporatist Republicans on this forum. It's not an R vs. Ds issue for me, like it is for you but nice attempt to deflect and reframe the argument. Hillary and Bill are the worst of all of them - but sheep like you buy every excuse they make and nothing will ever convince you otherwise.

 

[Michchamp]

I cut my own lawn but how about you ask the guy cutting your lawn if he wants his kids to learn English so they can aspire to be more than maids, landscapers and day workers. It's white liberals who want to teach math, history and literature to poor immigrant kids in Spanish to keep them poor and dependent on your government largesse so they'll keep voting for your side. And the other side is the one full of racists. You're the one who relies on a permanently poor class for votes, not conservatives.

Wow. mind blown.

hey, will you come mow my lawn too? I'm tired of mowing it myself, and I'd hate to hire a non-English speaker to do it and perpetuate the cycle of poverty.

 

[Spartanmack]

Wow. mind blown.

hey, will you come mow my lawn too? I'm tired of mowing it myself, and I'd hate to hire a non-English speaker to do it and perpetuate the cycle of poverty.

hiring non-english speakers isn't what perpetuates the cycle of poverty. Your policies are what do that - the record is quite clear. It's not surprising that a racist who doesn't think he's a bigot would also completely miss the point of my post.

Nice try at twisting my words though - I'm actually a little surprised that you didn't accuse me of being a racist for cutting my own lawn.

 

[Spartanmack]

So if the FBI recommended charging her, you'd say she's a criminal and she broke the law. the FBI recommends not charging her and the FBI is saying she's above the law, I guess your mind was made up from the begining, she was guilty in your mind no matter what they said.

Hillary and Bill had the money and connections to fly private whenever they wanted, either they would pay for it or they would lean on a huge donor/friend/influencer and it would happen, they didn't need the foundation for that. Are you saying that politicians don't show favoritism to the wealthy and powerful? oh my god, that's such a shocking revelation, that's completely exclusive to the Clintons, if she's defeated, then we don't have to worry about donors purchasing influence. it all stops if she loses.

I know you don't fact check so here's a list of verifiable facts - directly from the FBI investigation of Clinton...

According to new documents from the FBI's investigation of Clinton, the agency was fully aware that Clinton lied when she said she set up a private server in order to utilize one Blackberry device -- she used 13 mobile devices and two phone numbers. The FBI knew that Clinton's aides destroyed old Blackberrys by cracking them in half or hitting them with a hammer. The FBI knew full well that Clinton had passed classified information over her private server -- she admitted that she didn't even know how classified information worked, instead stating that she thought the "C" appearing at the top of documents probably had something to do with alphabetizing files. The FBI recognized that Clinton wiped her server after a New York Times article revealed her private sever and email use; that she brought her Blackberry into a secure State Department area; that she never turned over nearly 18,000 work-related emails; that she discussed an undercover asset on the server and put his family in danger; and that she refused to take Blackberrys from the State Department out of fear they could be discoverable under Freedom of Information Act requests.

The FBI also allowed Clinton aide Cheryl Mills to act as Clinton's lawyer during her FBI hearing, even though Mills was a material witness. In doing so, the agency granted Mills legal privilege where none existed. And the FBI didn't bother asking Clinton whether she intended to hide information. Officials gave her the benefit of the doubt every single step of the way.

As Ben Shapiro concludes, "There is no excuse for Clinton escaping charges. Not one. The FBI's own documents prove that she took action that you would only take if you were attempting to obstruct justice, destroy evidence and lie to law enforcement. And yet the FBI, as a wing of the Obama White House, went out of its way to ensure that the Democratic presidential candidate would evade prosecution."

Edit: I have not doubt that after reading this, you will stick to your guns with your completely disproved assertion that the FBI cleared her of all criminal wrong doing - how else could you continue to support her? Oh yeah, you can support her because "Trump".

 

[Sbee]

I know you don't fact check so here's a list of verifiable facts - directly from the FBI investigation of Clinton...



As Ben Shapiro concludes, "There is no excuse for Clinton escaping charges. Not one. The FBI's own documents prove that she took action that you would only take if you were attempting to obstruct justice, destroy evidence and lie to law enforcement. And yet the FBI, as a wing of the Obama White House, went out of its way to ensure that the Democratic presidential candidate would evade prosecution."

Edit: I have not doubt that after reading this, you will stick to your guns with your completely disproved assertion that the FBI cleared her of all criminal wrong doing - how else could you continue to support her? Oh yeah, you can support her because "Trump".

Wait, are you saying that a conservative radio commentator disagrees with the FBI about Hillary? I'm so shocked, there's never motivated reasoning in those situations.

If you don't like the findings, attack the agency. Never mind that the bureau chief is a Republican and gave money to the Romney and McCain campaings, the bureau is an extension of the Obama administration, right?

 

[Thumb]

Ah, so since English isn't the official language - it's just the most widely spoken by a long shot, our taxpayers should have to fund all government services, including education in every language. Makes sense, and anyone who feels otherwise is racist.

I wouldn't say racist, but likely xenophobic.

And it's a real issue because so many people have the idea that people in America should 'speak our language, worship the Christian-Judaeo god, and assimilate to out cultures.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Perhaps we should look at that plaque for fine print that explains the terms and conditions?

 

[Spartanmack]

Wait, are you saying that a conservative radio commentator disagrees with the FBI about Hillary? I'm so shocked, there's never motivated reasoning in those situations.

If you don't like the findings, attack the agency. Never mind that the bureau chief is a Republican and gave money to the Romney and McCain campaings, the bureau is an extension of the Obama administration, right?

Motivated reasoning? Maybe you should read some of his columns on Trump before you accuse him of bias. He's a legal scholar who actually read the FBI report and enumerated the facts that indicate she broke the law. But you don't like the facts so you attack the messenger then accuse him of attacking the FBI. Like I said, I know facts won't persuade you. You're a sheep and sheep don't think for themselves.

 

[Spartanmack]

I wouldn't say racist, but likely xenophobic.

And it's a real issue because so many people have the idea that people in America should 'speak our language, worship the Christian-Judaeo god, and assimilate to out cultures.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Perhaps we should look at that plaque for fine print that explains the terms and conditions?

That's a poem on a statue, it's not in the constitution and doesn't bind Americans to any obligation to provide every accommodation no matter how unreasonable. And it's not racist or xenophobic to point out what most immigrants themselves know - they're better off learning the language most of us speak.

 

[Gulo Blue]

So...I think I have a bit of semi-liberal cred here seeing how disappointed I've been with the republican party for so long, but with regard to the appearance of xenophobia, I see room for good-natured people to inadvertently look like xenophobes too. I'm not in Michigan anymore, but I'm aware of the change in Hamtramck. It was a very Polish town, with a Polish parade and Polish stores with Polish foods. Now it's the 1st city in the US that's predominantly Muslim. When people complain about the ebbing of the Polish elements, are they being xenophobic or is there an element that has nothing to do with Muslims behind their sense of loss? There's a big difference between being afraid of any presence of of other cultures and having to change your own behavior to accommodate new cultural elements. One is xenophobia and the other isn't.

 

[Spartanmack]

So...I think I have a bit of semi-liberal cred here seeing how disappointed I've been with the republican party for so long, but with regard to the appearance of xenophobia, I see room for good-natured people to inadvertently look like xenophobes too. I'm not in Michigan anymore, but I'm aware of the change in Hamtramck. It was a very Polish town, with a Polish parade and Polish stores with Polish foods. Now it's the 1st city in the US that's predominantly Muslim. When people complain about the ebbing of the Polish elements, are they being xenophobic or is there an element that has nothing to do with Muslims behind their sense of loss? There's a big difference between being afraid of any presence of of other cultures and having to change your own behavior to accommodate new cultural elements. One is xenophobia and the other isn't.

You don't need liberal cred here. Despite repeated attempts to grant themselves moral superiority, libs aren't the arbiters of who good natured people are. I am a conservative who is also disaffected by what's happened in the Republican Party, but that's irrelevant to libs. Any dissent is racism, or xenophobia. Religion wasn't even mentioned here but the accusation that I want every immigrant to worship the Judeo-Christian God was hurled, on top of the accusation that I wouldn't hire someone for menial work if they don't speak English. There's no integrity with them, they're not fit to pass judgement on me or anyone else.

 

[Gulo Blue]

You don't need liberal cred here. Despite repeated attempts to grant themselves moral superiority, libs aren't the arbiters of who good natured people are.

I think I still have conservative cred too. Next time I need to add qualifiers before saying something liberalish, I might bring it up.

 

[turok]

 

[Thumb]

Religion wasn't even mentioned here but the accusation that I want every immigrant to worship the Judeo-Christian God was hurled

Wrong. I never said, or even implied, you. I said "so many people".

You can un-nail yourself from the cross now.

 

[Sbee]

Motivated reasoning? Maybe you should read some of his columns on Trump before you accuse him of bias. He's a legal scholar who actually read the FBI report and enumerated the facts that indicate she broke the law. But you don't like the facts so you attack the messenger then accuse him of attacking the FBI. Like I said, I know facts won't persuade you. You're a sheep and sheep don't think for themselves.

Never mind that the Republican FBI director that is supposedly a puppet of the Obama administration donates money to the candidates that oppose him, you forgot to respond to that point.

So you're saying that he isn't biased against Hillary because he's critical of Trump? As if it's not possible to have hatred for Hillary and simultaneously dislike Trump? You need to do a little better than that.

 

[Spartanmack]

Wrong. I never said, or even implied, you. I said "so many people".

You can un-nail yourself from the cross now.

pump the breaks there pal - I'm not claiming victim status. I can handle myself when it comes to this nonsense. I'm simply pointing out why Gulo doesn't need "liberal cred" - his opinions stand on their own merit.

 

[Spartanmack]

Never mind that the Republican FBI director that is supposedly a puppet of the Obama administration donates money to the candidates that oppose him, you forgot to respond to that point.

So you're saying that he isn't biased against Hillary because he's critical of Trump? As if it's not possible to have hatred for Hillary and simultaneously dislike Trump? You need to do a little better than that.

why does that matter? Obama is his boss.

And I'm not saying he's not bias - I'm saying he's pointing out facts and he's a legal expert. Facts don't have a bias. But facts also don't matter to you - I noticed you forgot to respond to the those facts, again. It at least seems that you're consistent - you fight to keep criminals of all stripes out of prison. At least you have that going for you.

 

[Sbee]

why does that matter? Obama is his boss.

And I'm not saying he's not bias - I'm saying he's pointing out facts and he's a legal expert. Facts don't have a bias. But facts also don't matter to you - I noticed you forgot to respond to the those facts, again. It at least seems that you're consistent - you fight to keep criminals of all stripes out of prison. At least you have that going for you.

By that logic every government agency is beholden to the party in office and can never have a shred of objectivity when it comes to a member of the other party. I hardly think that's the case and that Comey did the job to the best of his ability. His political donations show a lack of allegiance if anything. I'm sure you'll consider to see what you believe though.

Also, his statements were all opinion and all subjective, he said that the FBI's documents prove that her actions were to obstruct judgement. A fact is something that can't be disputed, someones interpretation of her intentions is not a fact.

 

[Michchamp]

hey... wait a minute...

welcome back, Turok!