I am fucking sick of Trump

[Michchamp]

So...I think I have a bit of semi-liberal cred here ...

eh... I guess.

 

[tinselwolverine]

You don't need liberal cred here.

I would say that Gulo already has credibility cred here...

 

[Gulo Blue]

I should have said non-xenophobe cred. Spartanmack was right about that. I was defending apparent xenophobes, so that's what I was really looking for.

Now I need to go back to that Devil's Advocate thread and try to win back some Don Brown fan cred.

 

[Spartanmack]

By that logic every government agency is beholden to the party in office and can never have a shred of objectivity when it comes to a member of the other party. I hardly think that's the case and that Comey did the job to the best of his ability. His political donations show a lack of allegiance if anything. I'm sure you'll consider to see what you believe though.

Also, his statements were all opinion and all subjective, he said that the FBI's documents prove that her actions were to obstruct judgement. A fact is something that can't be disputed, someones interpretation of her intentions is not a fact.

I will continue to believe what I believe because what I believe is based on facts - facts that you continue to ignore, facts that show she took steps to cover up, conceal and destroy evidence and facts that show she lied about it continuously. I'd like to see you try to reconcile one of these facts with her proven lies and then try to explain how that is consistent with Comey not pressing charges. You can't and you won't but your next post will be about how I always attack Clinton due to my bias despite the fact that I often criticize the actions of many Republicans and despite the fact that you continue to support her despite her proven lies and malfeasance because you are the biased partisan hack.

I'm not on here supporting or defending Trump - I've already said he's a horrible human being and not fit to be President. I actually think Hillary is worse but it's close. You're on here defending Hillary at every turn and talking about how she is so much better than Trump and you accuse me of being a biased partisan. You have no credibility here.

 

[Spartanmack]

I would say that Gulo already has credibility cred here...

I agree. That was my point when I said his opinions stand on their own merit.

 

[Spartanmack]

Also, his statements were all opinion and all subjective, he said that the FBI's documents prove that her actions were to obstruct judgement. A fact is something that can't be disputed, someones interpretation of her intentions is not a fact.

I guess you missed the list of facts I posted from the piece before you read his conclusion. here is the list again - they come straight from the FBIs investigation of her...

According to new documents from the FBI's investigation of Clinton, the agency was fully aware that Clinton lied when she said she set up a private server in order to utilize one Blackberry device -- she used 13 mobile devices and two phone numbers. The FBI knew that Clinton's aides destroyed old Blackberrys by cracking them in half or hitting them with a hammer. The FBI knew full well that Clinton had passed classified information over her private server -- she admitted that she didn't even know how classified information worked, instead stating that she thought the "C" appearing at the top of documents probably had something to do with alphabetizing files. The FBI recognized that Clinton wiped her server after a New York Times article revealed her private sever and email use; that she brought her Blackberry into a secure State Department area; that she never turned over nearly 18,000 work-related emails; that she discussed an undercover asset on the server and put his family in danger; and that she refused to take Blackberrys from the State Department out of fear they could be discoverable under Freedom of Information Act requests.

The FBI also allowed Clinton aide Cheryl Mills to act as Clinton's lawyer during her FBI hearing, even though Mills was a material witness. In doing so, the agency granted Mills legal privilege where none existed. And the FBI didn't bother asking Clinton whether she intended to hide information. Officials gave her the benefit of the doubt every single step of the way.

I don't see how you can say any of that is his interpretation or opinion or even remotely subjective. just try to explain away one of them - how about the mist damning one where it says they knew she passed classified info, marked as such on her server. I know a few months ago you were saying she didn't do that. what do you say now? They're all facts but again, facts will never influence you when it comes to defending your team.

 

[Sbee]

I will continue to believe what I believe because what I believe is based on facts - facts that you continue to ignore, facts that show she took steps to cover up, conceal and destroy evidence and facts that show she lied about it continuously. I'd like to see you try to reconcile one of these facts with her proven lies and then try to explain how that is consistent with Comey not pressing charges. You can't and you won't but your next post will be about how I always attack Clinton due to my bias despite the fact that I often criticize the actions of many Republicans and despite the fact that you continue to support her despite her proven lies and malfeasance because you are the biased partisan hack.

I'm not on here supporting or defending Trump - I've already said he's a horrible human being and not fit to be President. I actually think Hillary is worse but it's close. You're on here defending Hillary at every turn and talking about how she is so much better than Trump and you accuse me of being a biased partisan. You have no credibility here.

I'm saying that this issue isn't really that big of a deal, there are plenty of other reasons to dislike her that are way more important, like her pandering and being beholden to the political donor class, that is something worth talking discussing. All of these flaws considered, I still think she's clearly the best and safest choice over Trump. It's not even close really in my opinion. You can waste your vote on a 3rd party all you want but the system is rigged to prevent that with campaign finance and inability to get on the ballot, etc. Throw your vote away on principle if you wish.

As for it being illegal, is it illegal to destroy an old blackberry if you're a government official? There's a major difference between something being illegal and simply not following a recommendation or best practice. you do have to safeguard old equipment and dispose of it in a way that it can't fall into the wrong hands. what is the process for proper disposal? I don't know the answer to this but if this is what we're arguing about, we're wasting a lot of time. If you want to have a discussion of substance about HRC, you should focus on things that could impact the American people going forward and there are plenty. This email issue is really a right wing driven discussion to win the election and damage her reputation, which is working. If you think that this is about anything more than that you really are blind.

 

[tomdalton22]

I'm saying that this issue isn't really that big of a deal, there are plenty of other reasons to dislike her that are way more important, like her pandering and being beholden to the political donor class, that is something worth talking discussing. All of these flaws considered, I still think she's clearly the best and safest choice over Trump. It's not even close really in my opinion. You can waste your vote on a 3rd party all you want but the system is rigged to prevent that with campaign finance and inability to get on the ballot, etc. Throw your vote away on principle if you wish.

I will be throwing my vote away on principle. Neither Trump or Clinton is worth a vote. If everyone who feels they are both worthless and voted 3rd party, maybe next election they would get in the debates and get the campaign finance they need.

This country needs a 3rd party. Let's call it the common sense party. Fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

 

[Thumb]

Id have no problem voting 3rd party if Jill Stein and Gary Johnson weren't such pathetic candidates.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I will be throwing my vote away on principle. Neither Trump or Clinton is worth a vote. If everyone who feels they are both worthless and voted 3rd party, maybe next election they would get in the debates and get the campaign finance they need.

This country needs a 3rd party. Let's call it the common sense party. Fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

Good. Me too. Leaning towards the guy that couldn't place Aleppo without some context.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Id have no problem voting 3rd party if Jill Stein and Gary Johnson weren't such pathetic candidates.

Pathetic is better than corrupt or unethical.

 

[Sbee]

I will be throwing my vote away on principle. Neither Trump or Clinton is worth a vote. If everyone who feels they are both worthless and voted 3rd party, maybe next election they would get in the debates and get the campaign finance they need.

This country needs a 3rd party. Let's call it the common sense party. Fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

I agree about a 3rd party but we need so many structural changes to the election process for that to happen and I don't see it ever changing. The best would be to allow for ranked choice voting which you rank your candidates and there is an instant runoff to get over 50%. The deck is completely stacked against anyone who isn't a republican or democrat (remember that Bernie is an independent senator who chose to run as a dem). It's expensive and time consuming to gather the signatures to get on the ballot in all 50 states and you have an immense disadvantage in fundraising, and you're essentially locked out of the debates.

Like it or not this election is between Trump and Clinton, the only two candidates with a chance of winning. You can vote 3rd party just to make a statement as all of the Nader voters did in 2000, of course that gave us George W Bush and the biggest foreign policy disaster in American history.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Like it or not this election is between Trump and Clinton, the only two candidates with a chance of winning. You can vote 3rd party just to make a statement as all of the Nader voters did in 2000, of course that gave us George W Bush and the biggest foreign policy disaster in American history.

If you want to say 3rd party voting gave us Bush, then you also should own that the '3rd party is throwing your vote away' attitude gives us bad choices like Trump and Clinton. One's a short term view, one's a long term view.

 

[Sbee]

If you want to say 3rd party voting gave us Bush, then you also should own that the '3rd party is throwing your vote away' attitude gives us bad choices like Trump and Clinton. One's a short term view, one's a long term view.

I'll say that voting for Nader was a wasted vote and if guess most Nader voters would have ranked gore 2nd so they end up with their last choice.

 

[Thumb]

Pathetic is better than corrupt or unethical.

It's not better.

It's like cow shit calling pig shit smelly. In any event, no matter who wins Nov. 8th, we all still lose.

 

[Spartanmack]

I'm saying that this issue isn't really that big of a deal, there are plenty of other reasons to dislike her that are way more important, like her pandering and being beholden to the political donor class, that is something worth talking discussing. All of these flaws considered, I still think she's clearly the best and safest choice over Trump. It's not even close really in my opinion. You can waste your vote on a 3rd party all you want but the system is rigged to prevent that with campaign finance and inability to get on the ballot, etc. Throw your vote away on principle if you wish.

As for it being illegal, is it illegal to destroy an old blackberry if you're a government official? There's a major difference between something being illegal and simply not following a recommendation or best practice. you do have to safeguard old equipment and dispose of it in a way that it can't fall into the wrong hands. what is the process for proper disposal? I don't know the answer to this but if this is what we're arguing about, we're wasting a lot of time. If you want to have a discussion of substance about HRC, you should focus on things that could impact the American people going forward and there are plenty. This email issue is really a right wing driven discussion to win the election and damage her reputation, which is working. If you think that this is about anything more than that you really are blind.

pandering and beimg a member of he political class behilden to the donor class are bad, particularly the latter but you are out of your mind if you think those are better reasons to dislike a politician than corruption, ineptitude and criminal behavior. that is the most asinine thing you've said yet.

 

[Sbee]

pandering and beimg a member of he political class behilden to the donor class are bad, particularly the latter but you are out of your mind if you think those are better reasons to dislike a politician than corruption, ineptitude and criminal behavior. that is the most asinine thing you've said yet.

Please list the crimes that she's guilty of. Keep on mind she's never been charged with a crime, much less found guilty so that qualifies as completely factually inaccurate (from the guy who loves to talk about facts).

 

[tigermud]

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...inton-could-shoot-someone-at-rally-and-not-be

Donald Trump told a huge crowd Friday night that Hillary Clinton is so heavily protected by the Justice Department that she wouldn't be punished for shooting someone with thousands of witnesses.

As attendees at Trump's event in Pensacola, Fla., chanted "lock her up," a familiar refrain at Trump rallies, the GOP nominee argued that getting out of prosecution was the "single greatest achievement of Hillary Clinton."

 

[tinselwolverine]

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...inton-could-shoot-someone-at-rally-and-not-be

Donald Trump told a huge crowd Friday night that Hillary Clinton is so heavily protected by the Justice Department that she wouldn't be punished for shooting someone with thousands of witnesses.

He said something similar about himself and his popularity.

He's definitely one of those 2nd Amendment people.

So maybe this decision should come down to pistols.

Like with Hamilton and Mr Burr, Sir.

 

[Spartanmack]

If you want to say 3rd party voting gave us Bush, then you also should own that the '3rd party is throwing your vote away' attitude gives us bad choices like Trump and Clinton. One's a short term view, one's a long term view.

Let's not forget that 3rd party voting also gave us Clinton 1 and all his horrible and inept foreign policy, a multitude of scandals and the acceleration of the free money Fed policy that has been killing our economy for the last 24 years, not to mention his racist anti-crime legislation that has destroyed urban America.