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Ill vs MSU

of course you don't think you were wrong, what would I expect from an ego centric asshole?

I think you need to understand what the concept of a ceiling is, the maximum that you could possibly expect out of them. If they exceed your ceiling, that means you underestimated the team and therefore you were wrong.

I stated ceiling was Sweet 16 too, happy to be wrong although we could lose on Friday. Even if we lose on Friday I'd say the ceiling was proven to be higher than that.

Bottom line, never underestimate Izzo. He challenged this team all season long in order to get them to come together in March, and presto, like usual, here they are. 7 Sweet 16s in 8 years and we still doubt.
 
Piss myself and spend the rest of the day in my room in tears? Hahahahaha. I've answered every criticism, accusation or challenge ever issued to me on this board - including this bump and I stand by all of it and I'm ready to rehash it and prove you wrong again, if you have the balls. That's a pretty funny criticism coming from the guy who disappeared for a week after being proved so soundly wrong about Thad Matta. You did the same thing after your prediction for the OSU game this fall and in the Johnny Adams and Fuo Funoti arguments. Face it, you're a cowardly dickbag homer who can never admit when he's wrong - you're wrong a lot, by the way.

I don't really care that you doubt me because you're a fool and you obviously don't know anything about me. Even if you were remotely close, that's better than being a blind homer - especially one who didn't predict this result or anything close to it but then comes on the board acting like you did and were right all along. You are one pathetic loser.

Stopped reading after you admitted you piss yourself. Go get your shine box out and polish some shoes idiot. Surely you'd get your ass kicked if you ever went to the games.
 
I stated ceiling was Sweet 16 too, happy to be wrong although we could lose on Friday. Even if we lose on Friday I'd say the ceiling was proven to be higher than that.

Bottom line, never underestimate Izzo. He challenged this team all season long in order to get them to come together in March, and presto, like usual, here they are. 7 Sweet 16s in 8 years and we still doubt.

one day prep was great, so many good defensive plays. I was shocked to see Forbes D up on brogdon when Valentine was out with foul trouble. Tum's fouls were dumb ones away from the ball but he is so quick and can get right up in the point guard's grill and he has the quickness to move with him like Shabazz Napier did. This is due to great one day prep, it looked like we played that pack line D that everyone talks about Virginia playing. Costello and Dawson were both beastly in terms of help D, 4 fouls between them as well.
 
of course you don't think you were wrong, what would I expect from an ego centric asshole?

I think you need to understand what the concept of a ceiling is, the maximum that you could possibly expect out of them. If they exceed your ceiling, that means you underestimated the team and therefore you were wrong.

I admitted to being wrong about certain things but I don't think this win means I'm wrong about the team or the season in general because I don't think one game disproves anything. Is that ego? I said if we could finish 2nd in the B1G it would be because the B1G is very weak - we shared 3rd place w/ 2 other teams. We got swept by every team that finished ahead of us, lost at home to .500 Illinois and lost to 2 teams with losing records - at Nebraska and Minnesota at home. 3 terrible losses and not one signature win. We were supposed to beat Georgia and pulled off an upset over Virginia. Not exactly a "deep" run. And now, with Nova out of the way if they play like they did y'day, they could definitely beat Oklahoma.

Does one big win trump a mediocre season with 3 terrible losses and everything else that went wrong this season and thus disprove everything I've said? No, it doesn't. Teams outperform and beat expectations, defy the odds. That doesn't mean the odds were wrong. You even said yourself you didn't expect them to make it this far and they're playing with house money. That's the nature of events like the NCAA tournament. That's not ego. The fact that you're too stupid to understand statistics and what probability means doesn't make me an ego-centric asshole.
 
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Stopped reading after you admitted you piss yourself. Go get your shine box out and polish some shoes idiot. Surely you'd get your ass kicked if you ever went to the games.

Hahahaha. No you didn't. We both know you read every word (probably twice) and you know every word of it is true. Now you're resorting to being an internet tough guy - badass behind a keyboard. Were you the team manager/statistician in high school? Is that why you follow recruiting so closely? Thought you were part of the team, and that made you cool? Did you think everyone was laughing at someone else? You're so pathetic.
 
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I admitted to being wrong about certain things but I don't think this win means I'm wrong about the team or the season in general because I don't think one game disproves anything. Is that ego? I said if we could finish 2nd in the B1G it would be because the B1G is very weak - we shared 3rd place w/ 2 other teams. We got swept by every team that finished ahead of us, lost at home to .500 Illinois and lost to 2 teams with losing records - at Nebraska and Minnesota at home. 3 terrible losses and not one signature win. We were supposed to beat Georgia and pulled off an upset over Virginia.

Does one big win trump 3 terrible losses and everything else that went wrong this season and thus disprove everything I've said? No, it doesn't. Teams outperform and beat expectations, defy the odds. That doesn't mean the odds were wrong. You even said yourself you didn't expect them to make it this far and they're playing with house money. That's the nature of events like the NCAA tournament. That's not ego. The fact that you're too stupid to understand statistics and what probability means doesn't make me an ego-centric asshole.

we were swept by the teams above us? We only played Wisconsin once in the regular season, they didn't come to Breslin, is that a one game sweep? kind of an odd statement, but maybe you were including the big ten tournament, that was a sweep then. but wait, you inluded Maryland as a team that swept us, that was just in the regular season, we beat them in the BTT, so what is your criteria? does it change depending on the result you're looking for?

also, you didn't say top 3 was their ceiling, you said just making the tournament was their ceiling and that was a function of how bad the big ten was. you can go back and re-read your own posts.

Are you changing the definition of a ceiling for a team? ok, so if they exceed the ceiling, it doesn't mean that you're wrong about them, right? we're just defying the odds, winning all these games that we have no business winning? right? It's all luck?

keep spinning your wheels to avoid saying you were wrong when you were ripping this team.
 
we were swept by the teams above us? We only played Wisconsin once in the regular season, they didn't come to Breslin, is that a one game sweep? kind of an odd statement, but maybe you were including the big ten tournament, that was a sweep then. but wait, you inluded Maryland as a team that swept us, that was just in the regular season, we beat them in the BTT, so what is your criteria? does it change depending on the result you're looking for?

also, you didn't say top 3 was their ceiling, you said just making the tournament was their ceiling and that was a function of how bad the big ten was. you can go back and re-read your own posts.

Are you changing the definition of a ceiling for a team? ok, so if they exceed the ceiling, it doesn't mean that you're wrong about them, right? we're just defying the odds, winning all these games that we have no business winning? right? It's all luck?

keep spinning your wheels to avoid saying you were wrong when you were ripping this team.

Going 0-3 against the teams that finished ahead of us is being swept, is it not? Would you prefer I said "we lost every game to every team that finished ahead of us?" Or should I have pointed out that Wisco, who we lost to twice, only beat us once during the regular season. What difference does it make? Everyone here knows exactly how many times we played each team. Are you now saying you don't like that way I say what I say? Is that your best argument?

I'm not changing the definition of anything. If a team has a 30% chance of winning a game, and they win the game, that doesn't mean the odds were wrong. If they played the game 10 times and won 5 or more, then you could say the odds were probably wrong (technically, you could say 4 or more but 4 is probably still within the margin of error on such a small sample size). And winning all these games that we have no business winning? You do realize we've only won one game we weren't supposed to, right? And again, I predicted this win in my bracket and I bet MSU moneyline yesterday because I liked the matchup...

Internet 2 Team Parlay Risk 250 to win 1,062
Ticket # 310689508-1
3/22/15 12:10 PM NCAA /Basketball [#723] MICHIGAN STATE +175 [ vs VIRGINIA] Win 2574 3/22/15
12:07 PM
3/22/15 12:10 PM NCAA /Basketball [#724] MICHIGAN STATE/VIRGINIA Ov 118 -110 Loss 3/22/15
12:07 PM
 
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Going 0-3 against the teams that finished ahead of us is being swept, is it not? Would you prefer I said "we lost every game to every team that finished ahead of us?" Or should I have pointed out that Wisco, who we lost to twice, only beat us once during the regular season. What difference does it make? Everyone here knows exactly how many times we played each team. Are you now saying you don't like that way I say what I say? Is that your best argument?

I'm not changing the definition of anything. If a team has a 30% chance of winning a game, and they win the game, that doesn't mean the odds were wrong. If they played the game 10 times and won 5 or more, then you could say the odds were probably wrong (technically, you could say 4 or more but 4 is probably still within the margin of error on such a small sample size). And winning all these games that we have no business winning? You do realize we've only won one game we weren't supposed to, right? And again, I predicted this win in my bracket and I bet MSU moneyline yesterday because I liked the matchup...

Internet 2 Team Parlay Risk 250 to win 1,062
Ticket # 310689508-1
3/22/15 12:10 PM NCAA /Basketball [#723] MICHIGAN STATE +175 [ vs VIRGINIA] Win 2574 3/22/15
12:07 PM
3/22/15 12:10 PM NCAA /Basketball [#724] MICHIGAN STATE/VIRGINIA Ov 118 -110 Loss 3/22/15
12:07 PM

wait a minute, did you just paste your bet confirmations to show that you bet on MSU? well then, I'll take everything back that I said about you saying that our ceiling was just making the tournament and that only being a function of how bad the conference was. I mean, you jumped on the bandwagon late in the game, but showing that you bet on MSU means that you are just a badass.

my argument is that you were clearly wrong when you said that the ceiling of this team was just making the tournament. Somehow you want to argue your way of admitting you were wrong about that. we've won 6 of our last 7 games, all against NCAA tournament teams, beating 2 top 10 teams in the process, only playing one of those games in EL, played 1.75 games without Dawson, and our only loss was to a #1 seed in OT, but yeah, our ceiling was just making it and that was only a function of the conference being shitty.

some people just can't admit that they were wrong
 
wait a minute, did you just paste your bet confirmations to show that you bet on MSU? well then, I'll take everything back that I said about you saying that our ceiling was just making the tournament and that only being a function of how bad the conference was. I mean, you jumped on the bandwagon late in the game, but showing that you bet on MSU means that you are just a badass.

my argument is that you were clearly wrong when you said that the ceiling of this team was just making the tournament. Somehow you want to argue your way of admitting you were wrong about that. we've won 6 of our last 7 games, all against NCAA tournament teams, beating 2 top 10 teams in the process, only playing one of those games in EL, played 1.75 games without Dawson, and our only loss was to a #1 seed in OT, but yeah, our ceiling was just making it and that was only a function of the conference being shitty.

some people just can't admit that they were wrong

Wow, are you really that dumb or do you need to spin everything into something I'm not saying so you can be right? First of all, I never said making the tournament was a function of how bad the B1G is. Midway through, when we were in a multi-way tie for 2nd and you were talking B1G title, I first laughed, then said finishing 2nd would be a function the B1G being down so far from what it was the last two years. Of course, I was right about that, wasn't I?

And taking MSU moneyline, and posting proof of it, indicates exactly what I've been saying this morning, about 5 times now - that they could defy the odds. Again, the win doesn't disprove the odds, but I'm afraid probabilities and outcomes are a concept you're to dense to fully grasp. If 2 weeks ago I say the ceiling is making the tournament and a moron interprets that literally to mean I don't think they can win a single game (over a week before the draw is even set), there's not much I can do or say about that. I even said when the draw came out that we should have been at least a 6 and probably a 5.

so tell me, when you say "winning all these games we have no business winning" exactly what "all these games" are you talking about? By my count, it's one.
 
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Wow, are you really that dumb or do you need to spin everything into something I'm not saying so you can be right? First of all, I never said making the tournament was a function of how bad the B1G is. Midway through, when we were in a multi-way tie for 2nd and you were talking B1G title, I first laughed, then said finishing 2nd would be a function the B1G being down so far from what it was the last two years. Of course, I was right about that, wasn't I?

And taking MSU moneyline, and posting proof of it, indicates exactly what I've been saying this morning, about 5 times now - that they could defy the odds. Again, the win doesn't disprove the odds, but I'm afraid probabilities and outcomes are a concept you're to dense to fully grasp. If 2 weeks ago I say the ceiling is making the tournament and a moron interprets that literally to mean I don't think they can win a single game (over a week before the draw is even set), there's not much I can do or say about that. I even said when the draw came out that we should have been at least a 6 and probably a 5.

so tell me, when you say "winning all these games we have no business winning" exactly what "all these games" are you talking about? By my count, it's one.

here's a quote from you, post 59 if you want to look back

Here's a consistent message - the ceiling for this team is making the tournament and it will be more likely a function of how bad the conference is ex-Wisconsin than how good this team is if they do

you say that the ceiling for this team is making the tournament and that will be a function of how bad the big ten is. in post 89 you said that you never said that making the tournament was a function of how bad the big ten is.


please explain
 
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Going 0-3 against the teams that finished ahead of us is being swept, is it not? Would you prefer I said "we lost every game to every team that finished ahead of us?" Or should I have pointed out that Wisco, who we lost to twice, only beat us once during the regular season. What difference does it make? Everyone here knows exactly how many times we played each team. Are you now saying you don't like that way I say what I say? Is that your best argument?

I'm not changing the definition of anything. If a team has a 30% chance of winning a game, and they win the game, that doesn't mean the odds were wrong. If they played the game 10 times and won 5 or more, then you could say the odds were probably wrong (technically, you could say 4 or more but 4 is probably still within the margin of error on such a small sample size). And winning all these games that we have no business winning? You do realize we've only won one game we weren't supposed to, right? And again, I predicted this win in my bracket and I bet MSU moneyline yesterday because I liked the matchup...

Internet 2 Team Parlay Risk 250 to win 1,062
Ticket # 310689508-1
3/22/15 12:10 PM NCAA /Basketball [#723] MICHIGAN STATE +175 [ vs VIRGINIA] Win 2574 3/22/15
12:07 PM
3/22/15 12:10 PM NCAA /Basketball [#724] MICHIGAN STATE/VIRGINIA Ov 118 -110 Loss 3/22/15
12:07 PM


I had MSU ML and ASU +4.5 2 team. LOL ASU covering the wohole game went to OT then ASU FOULS with 1 second left and down by 4 (so no chance to win). Richmond hits 2 free throws. Talk about fixed I was ready to smash anything in sight.
 
I had MSU ML and ASU +4.5 2 team. LOL ASU covering the wohole game went to OT then ASU FOULS with 1 second left and down by 4 (so no chance to win). Richmond hits 2 free throws. Talk about fixed I was ready to smash anything in sight.

Bummer. My wife is a Spider and it was fun to see her get excited about a game - she doesn't understand why I get the way I do during MSU games and is probably a little sick of it since I watch all of them. Didn't touch the spread - so hard to call a matchup b/w a middle of the pack Pac12 team vs. a upper tier A-10 team but I did have the over in a five team parlay so I was elated that they made it to OT. Although at the rate they were scoring, it was still up in the air. But they put up more points in that 5 minutes than they did in almost 15 minutes of the second half. Ended up 3 & 2 - lost MD moneyline and Wisc -12. I would take Wisco again, just a bad shooting night in my opinion but the MD bet was dumb - more of an anti-WVU bet than pro MD.
 
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here's a quote from you, post 59 if you want to look back

Here's a consistent message - the ceiling for this team is making the tournament and it will be more likely a function of how bad the conference is ex-Wisconsin than how good this team is if they do

you say that the ceiling for this team is making the tournament and that will be a function of how bad the big ten is. in post 89 you said that you never said that making the tournament was a function of how bad the big ten is.


please explain

Is that your big gotcha? If it makes you happy, I clearly misspoke in my earlier post. It doesn't prove me wrong about the team and the season, but I definitely misspoke. Well done. Now, how about you answer my question I've asked 3 times now - how many games are talking about when you say "we're winning all these games we have no business winning?" And does defying the odds (once so far) in a one-and-done tournament prove the odds makers wrong?

Please explain...
 
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Is that your big gotcha? If it makes you happy, I clearly misspoke in my earlier post. It doesn't prove me wrong about the team and the season, but I definitely misspoke. Well done. Now, how about you answer my question I've asked 3 times now - how many games are talking about when you say "we're winning all these games we have no business winning?" And does defying the odds (once so far) in a one-and-done tournament prove the odds makers wrong?

Please explain...

ok, you weren't wrong, you just misspoke. how big of you to admit that. Pride is a motherfucker I guess

as for the games they're not supposed to win, I know you're only referring to betting lines because there were games where we were slight favorites and your narrow argument plays into your hands because we were favored on a neutral site vs Maryland, a top 10 team at the time that had beaten us twice. I wonder if that tells you something, that we're a hell of a lot better than our record because if it was just our record no way we'd be favored against Maryland. if you want to tread the oddsmakers as gods, let's look back at the games we've played recently against tournament teams. @ Wisconsin cover, Purdue, cover, @ Indiana cover, vs OSU Cover, vs Maryland push (ellis held up on a lay up with 5 seconds left), vs Wisconsin didn't cover (did through 40 minutes, but didn't in OT), Georgia cover, virginia cover. we haven't covered the spread one in the last 8 against tournament teams. we're better than people think and a hell of a lot better than you thought, but again, maybe you misspoke and that's the problem
 
ok, you weren't wrong, you just misspoke. how big of you to admit that. Pride is a motherfucker I guess

as for the games they're not supposed to win, I know you're only referring to betting lines because there were games where we were slight favorites and your narrow argument plays into your hands because we were favored on a neutral site vs Maryland, a top 10 team at the time that had beaten us twice. I wonder if that tells you something, that we're a hell of a lot better than our record because if it was just our record no way we'd be favored against Maryland. if you want to tread the oddsmakers as gods, let's look back at the games we've played recently against tournament teams. @ Wisconsin cover, Purdue, cover, @ Indiana cover, vs OSU Cover, vs Maryland push (ellis held up on a lay up with 5 seconds left), vs Wisconsin didn't cover (did through 40 minutes, but didn't in OT), Georgia cover, virginia cover. we haven't covered the spread one in the last 8 against tournament teams. we're better than people think and a hell of a lot better than you thought, but again, maybe you misspoke and that's the problem

no, no, no, no, no. It's not a narrow argument. I'm not talking about betting lines, I'm talking about HOW MANY GAMES WE HAVE NO BUSINESS WINNING that we are winning? Your words dickhead, don't try to spin your way out of it. It's not a narrow argument. How many? Did you you misspeak? Come on, how many games have we won that we had no business winning?

I'm not treating the odds makers like Gods and posting a streak of how many spreads we've covered is totally meaningless - it proves absolutely nothing. Do you really think being 20-16 against the spread is proof that we're better than our record? That is literally the dumbest thing you've said in months - that's Johnny2x2x stupid.
 
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no, no, no, no, no. It's not a narrow argument. I'm not talking about betting lines, I'm talking about HOW MANY GAMES WE HAVE NO BUSINESS WINNING that we are winning? Your words dickhead, don't try to spin your way out of it. It's not a narrow argument. How many? Did you you misspeak? Come on, how many games have we won that we had no business winning?

@ indiana without Dawson
Vs Maryland
vs Virginia

nice job taking it off the topic of you being completely wrong about the ceiling of this team
 
@ indiana without Dawson
Vs Maryland
vs Virginia

nice job taking it off the topic of you being completely wrong about the ceiling of this team

hahahahahahahahahaha - we had no business beating a team that just lost 4 out of 6 including a loss to NW and a home loss to Iowa? A team we beat by 20 two months before. They had lost 7 of 11 with their only wins since Jan 22 being Rutgers, Michigan, Minnesota and Rutgers - a combined 16 & 38 in conference play! No business? Was Alvin Ellis scoring 9x his season average an indication that we're better than our record? Are you sure you want to keep that one in there? I'm literally laughing out loud right now.

As for Maryland - you realize we went 1-2 against them right? It is really hard to beat a team 3 times. I mean, we almost beat them at home - should have if not for the problems everyone has been pointing to as reason why the team had such a mediocre season. And, as you point out, we were favored in that game - a good win, but a bit of a stretch to say we had no business beating them.

That leaves Virginia. Take a look at the box score - it's not like they were lights out or even fixed their major problems. We got out-rebounded by 9 and gave up 18 offensive boards. Shot better from 3 than we did from the field and were bad from the foul line. But they played great defense, finally handled the pressure and although they still sucked from the line, they hit their FTs when they needed to. The fact that they didn't play a great game and won should tell you that it's not a game we had no business winning. And the odds makers were giving us a 36% chance of winning and it is March. It was a great outcome and while ugly, fun to watch but by most measures, not a game we had no business winning but at nearly 2:1, we definitely defied the odds, so I'll give it to you. Congrats, we've won exactly 1 game we had no business winning!
 
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hahahahahahahahahaha - we had no business beating a team that just lost 4 out of 6 including a loss to NW and a home loss to Iowa? A team we beat by 20 two months before. They had lost 7 of 11 with their only wins since Jan 22 being Rutgers, Michigan, Minnesota and Rutgers - a combined 16 & 38 in conference play! No business? Was Alvin Ellis scoring 9x his season average an indication that we're better than our record? Are you sure you want to keep that one in there? I'm literally laughing out loud right now.

As for Maryland - you realize we went 1-2 against them right? It is really hard to beat a team 3 times. I mean, we almost beat them at home - should have if not for the problems everyone has been pointing to as reason why the team had such a mediocre season. And, as you point out, we were favored in that game - a good win, but a bit of a stretch to say we had no business beating them.

That leaves Virginia. Take a look at the box score - it's not like they were lights out or even fixed their major problems. We got out-rebounded by 9 and gave up 18 offensive boards. Shot better from 3 than we did from the field and were bad from the foul line. But they played great defense, finally handled the pressure and although they still sucked from the line, they hit their FTs when they needed to. The fact that they didn't play a great game and won should tell you that it's not a game we had no business winning. And the odds makers were giving us a 36% chance of winning and it is March. It was a great outcome and while ugly, fun to watch but by most measures, not a game we had no business winning but at nearly 2:1, we definitely defied the odds, so I'll give it to you. Congrats, we've won exactly 1 game we had no business winning!

what's your ****ing point? you've ripped this team all year saying they were dog shit and their ceiling was making the NCAA tournament. I said that the ceiling was top 3 in the big ten and possibly a sweet 16, I was right and you were wrong but your foolish pride won't let you admit it.

if the situation was reversed, i'd just say, hell, i was happy to be wrong, i underestimated this team. I'd take it like a man and admit it.
 
what's your ****ing point? you've ripped this team all year saying they were dog shit and their ceiling was making the NCAA tournament. I said that the ceiling was top 3 in the big ten and possibly a sweet 16, I was right and you were wrong but your foolish pride won't let you admit it.

if the situation was reversed, i'd just say, hell, i was happy to be wrong, i underestimated this team. I'd take it like a man and admit it.

what are you talking about? I've already admitted I was wrong because I didn't think Izzo would get them to shut down a team like Virginia but again, this one win doesn't erase everything that happened this year. Over a month ago I said they could finish in the top 3, but that it would be a function of how far down the B1G is this year - it is, and I was right about that. I don't recall ever using the term dog shit or anything like it. I also think if we were to play Virginia 10 times, we'd probably lose 7 of them. The fact that one of those 3 times happened yesterday doesn't prove me wrong about the team. If you want to say one improbable win proves I was wrong, go ahead.
 
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