Internet Censorship.

[tinselwolverine]

so a vaccinated person travels to a 3rd world country where they're exposed to mumps or measles or polio - they can't have that virus on their body, clothing, personal effects and transmit it to someone who isn't vaccinated? The only way to get it is from an unvaccinated host? That doesn't seem like such an outrageous question.

According to 2.4.1.3 of this, some pathogens can be transferred from skin or clothing. I didn?t see anything about the specific pathogen?s you mentioned.

 

[TheVictors]

LOL, measles and mumps are on the rise already because of tinfoil hat loonies not vaccinating their white, privileged kids in places like Kansas and Wisconsin and Illinois.

 

[Spartanmack]

OK. That helps. 1) correct. So long as you're far from the tipping point herd immunity %, no, 1 more unnvaccinated person doesn't increase risks much for other unvaccinated people and the vaccinated people should mostly be fine anyway.


Part 2 is conditional. The risk of infection spreading is very non-linear. There's a tipping point, that's different from place to place (population density is a factor) and from disease to disease. Let's say the magic number for a certain population is 78% Then (and I'm making up these numbers) if 90% get the vaccine, 0.1% get sick in a given year.

85% -> .2% sick.

80%-> .5% sick.

78%->1% sick.

77%->5% sick
76%->10% sick(epidemic among the unnvaccinated)


Again, I made up the numbers, but that's what I mean by 'tipping point'. If enough member of the herd are immune, we have 'herd immunity', meaning the disease is unlikely to spread through the herd because a sick person isn't likely to run into another unnvacinated person. When the number of anti-vaxxers gets too high, we lose herd immunity. But that assume a random distribution of vaccinated and unvaccinated people.



This effect is compounded by the fact that anti-vaxxers tend to be in the same social groups. So if you have a compromised immune system and you pass someone on the street that's not vaccinated but is in a group that has herd immunity and unvaccinated people are evenly distributed, there's not much of a chance they will be infected. But if a group of unvaccinated people all have their kids in the same school, there's a much higher chance when you walk by them that they will be infected.


Proof is in the news with these outbreaks.

Ok, this makes sense and confirms what I thought in the first case. I understand what you're saying in #2 but I'm not sure it answers my question - and this is not a nit it seems to be a more detailed answer to #1. Clearly, the higher the % of unvaccinated people the greater risk of them getting sick. that's only logical but I was asking about how they get it and who they get it from. specifically, what's the difference in the risk to an unvaccinated person who encounters another unvaccinated person who is sick vs. that same person encountering an vaccinated (or an uninfected unvaccinated) person who is simply carrying the virus. It seems obvious the risk is higher, but how much? That I think probably depends a lot on how a particular virus infects a host (does it have to be injested, enter through an open cut, inhaled, touched, etc).

 

[Spartanmack]

According to 2.4.1.3 of this, some pathogens can be transferred from skin or clothing. I didn?t see anything about the specific pathogen?s you mentioned.

I was just throwing out examples - don't mean for this to be a specific discussion about those or any particular virus.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Ok, this makes sense and confirms what I thought in the first case. I understand what you're saying in #2 but I'm not sure it answers my question - clearly, the higher the % of unvaccinated people the greater risk of them getting sick. that's only logical but what's the difference in the risk to an unvaccinated person who encounters another unvaccinated person who is sick vs. that same person encountering an vaccinated (or an uninfected unvaccinated) person who is simply carrying the virus. It seems obvious the risk is higher, but how much? That I think probably depends a lot on how a particular virus infects a host (does it have to be injested, enter through an open cut, inhaled, touched, etc).

The odds of getting something from an immune person is really low for a lot diseases. A lot of stuff can't live outside of the body for long, like on clothes, so even if someone picks something up by being in contact with someone that's infected, they won't have much of a chance of passing it along before it dies.


If you're wondering can someone be vaccinated in a way where they have live disease in their system and they won't get sick but they are spreading it...maybe. I'm pretty sure vaccines don't work 100% of the time and in those cases, a vaccinated person would act just like an unvaccinated person. Capable of getting sick and spreading it.

 

[Gulo Blue]

The phrase I'm thinking might really answer this question is "vaccinated asymptomatic carrier".


I see some whooping cough links.

 

[Michchamp]

LOL, measles and mumps are on the rise already because of tinfoil hat loonies not vaccinating their white, privileged kids in places like Kansas and Wisconsin and Illinois.

don't forget Texas.

it really is horrifying to me how many idiots are susceptible to this nonsense.

and you wonder why there hasn't been a more concerted effort in government to fight this ignorance befor it really does reach epidemic levels, but then you read about fucktards like this.

 

[Michchamp]

The odds of getting something from an immune person is really low for a lot diseases. A lot of stuff can't live outside of the body for long, like on clothes, so even if someone picks something up by being in contact with someone that's infected, they won't have much of a chance of passing it along before it dies.


If you're wondering can someone be vaccinated in a way where they have live disease in their system and they won't get sick but they are spreading it...maybe. I'm pretty sure vaccines don't work 100% of the time and in those cases, a vaccinated person would act just like an unvaccinated person. Capable of getting sick and spreading it.

according to the wikipedia article, the effectiveness of the MMR vaccine ranges from 88% to the high 90's but I forget what the numbers are specific to each illness.

I've also read, but I can't find the link now, that even if you do get sick, it's generally less severe if you've been vaccinated.

I read that in the case of chicken pox; it's a less effective vaccine, but even if you get it, at least you'll get a less severe infection, in intensity and duration.

 

[Gulo Blue]

according to the wikipedia article, the effectiveness of the MMR vaccine ranges from 88% to the high 90's but I forget what the numbers are specific to each illness.

I've also read, but I can't find the link now, that even if you do get sick, it's generally less severe if you've been vaccinated.

I read that in the case of chicken pox; it's a less effective vaccine, but even if you get it, at least you'll get a less severe infection, in intensity and duration.

So maybe it's not entirely binary, did the vaccine take?, but more a function of how healthy an individual's immune system is.


After people recover from chemo, do they re-do their vaccines?

 

[tinselwolverine]

After people recover from chemo, do they re-do their vaccines?

Here?s a little about that.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Here?s a little about that.

This is more complicated than I could have figured out from facebook posts.

 

[TheVictors]

Here?s a little about that.

my Dad had to after his bone marrow transplant and beating Leukemia

 

[tinselwolverine]

So maybe it's not entirely binary, did the vaccine take?, but more a function of how healthy an individual's immune system is.


After people recover from chemo, do they re-do their vaccines?

This is more complicated than I could have figured out from facebook posts.

That could be seen as good but also not so good.

It could be seen as thorough and comprehensive, but it also could be seen as being a pain in the ass.

 

[Gulo Blue]

That could be seen as good but also not so good.

It could be seen as thorough and comprehensive, but it also could be seen as being a pain in the ass.

I'm ordering some Alex Jones essential oils to be safe.

 

[tigermud]

To no one in particular... if you are anti-vaccination, you are:
1) dumb as shit
2) actively harmful to the rest of society.

3) and should be banned from existence right?

 

[Michchamp]

3) and should be banned from existence right?

RIGHT!!!

happy to see you come down on the right side of an issue for once!

Three cheers for Tigermud:

Hip Hip.... Hooray!

Hip Hip.... Hooray!

Hip Hip.... Hooray!

 

[tigermud]

LOL, measles and mumps are on the rise already because of tinfoil hat loonies not vaccinating their white, privileged kids in places like Kansas and Wisconsin and Illinois.

Wrong again it's not limited to fly over country, that's just more trump DS talking

http://drninashapiro.com/portfolio/why-are-rich-to-not-vaccinate-their-children-in-the-us

 

[Michchamp]

Wrong again it's not limited to fly over country, that's just more trump DS talking

http://drninashapiro.com/portfolio/why-are-rich-to-not-vaccinate-their-children-in-the-us

right again. the current measels outbreak initially was reported in the Pacific Northwest.

You're on a roll!

 

[tigermud]

i''m not against vaccines. rather just how they are administered, we requested they be spaced out further apart and only one at a time for our kids and started at older ages and made sure they weren't already under the weather before getting one. Our doctor worked with us on all that and didn't have a problem with and granted our requests. The biggest problems are with those already vulnerable and when they want to load ya up with more than one at time and or when they want it done so soon after birth, that's too damn soon!


now is that common sense or tin foil hat? So many of you are just so damn intolerant of anything anti establishment pusher positions that benefit the corps not giving a damn if there is an unintended casualty here and there, take your cost of doing business and shovel it up your ass corps . I'll do what's best for me and my family and not your bottom line.

 

[tigermud]

right again. the current measels outbreak initially was reported in the Pacific Northwest.

You're on a roll!

Hey dipshit the point was to his comment sterotype as to those areas and types of people that don't vax their kids. he's wrong about that sterotype.

Thus, in the Capistrano School District in Orange County, the percentage of children who have not received all the required vaccinations stood at 9.5%, while in Santa Ana, poorer neighboring community, this figure is just 0.2%.

Some schools in more affluent areas of southern California the number of unvaccinated students exceeds 50%.

While in New York, according to local media recently reported in some of the most exclusive schools in Manhattan, the percentage of students who have received all vaccines given by doctors is below 80%.