Welcome to Detroit Sports Forum!

By joining our community, you'll be able to connect with fellow fans that live and breathe Detroit sports just like you!

Get Started
  • If you are no longer able to access your account since our recent switch from vBulletin to XenForo, you may need to reset your password via email. If you no longer have access to the email attached to your account, please fill out our contact form and we will assist you ASAP. Thanks for your continued support of DSF.

Internet Censorship.

Oh, now I see it.


I still wouldn't call it celebratory to describe the claims as false or misleading, but should they call it false at all is a fair question. I don't know what the threshold is, but with as many rulings as there have been and no evidence of widespread fraud holding up to scrutiny, it's not clearly wrong to say these claims are false. Can the news never say a claim is false just because it technically cannot be disproven?

Unproven and false are not the same thing. To suggest false is to claim that the claims are known to be manufactured. So, all of them, then, are deliberate falsehoods, when that is, itself, false.
 
Unproven and false are not the same thing. To suggest false is to claim that the claims are known to be manufactured. So, all of them, then, are deliberate falsehoods, when that is, itself, false.
Whether or not it's known to be false determines if it's a lie. It is either false or not false even before it is known whether it is false or not false. But for the news to report something as true or false has always required judgement because there is nearly always room for technical uncertainty. They don't have to say "allegedly legal and also allegedly illegal income taxes" every time they mention income taxes, even though I've hear plenty of people over many years claim they are illegal.
 
Whether or not it's known to be false determines if it's a lie. It is either false or not false even before it is known whether it is false or not false. But for the news to report something as true or false has always required judgement because there is nearly always room for technical uncertainty. They don't have to say "allegedly legal and also allegedly illegal income taxes" every time they mention income taxes, even though I've hear plenty of people over many years claim they are illegal.

Sworn affidavits that specifically allege ballot stuffing, curing, illegal changing of voting rules before the election, counting ballots without supervisors, prohibiting selected supervisors from verifying ballots, disappearing ballots, illegally removing signature verification, deadline extensions for mail-in ballots, post-dating mail-in ballots, failing to abide in statewide election laws and processes ... these are all "false" and misleading claims?
 
Sworn affidavits that specifically allege ballot stuffing, curing, illegal changing of voting rules before the election, counting ballots without supervisors, prohibiting selected supervisors from verifying ballots, disappearing ballots, illegally removing signature verification, deadline extensions for mail-in ballots, post-dating mail-in ballots, failing to abide in statewide election laws and processes ... these are all "false" and misleading claims?
Which of those have actually appeared as evidence in court? Looking at wikipedia, it looks like most of this isn't making it into the lawsuits.
 
Link. I'm reading about this today. Stoller's written a lot on monopoly power and the government's failure to enforce anti-trust law.

There are two complaints, one from the states and one from the FTC. The state AG complaint is stronger, but both tell the same story. Facebook bought Instagram and WhatsApp to stop nascent competitors from challenging its monopoly power in social networking. It also used a variety of other tactics to foreclose competitors it could not buy from entering the market and challenging its dominance. Then, after it became a monopoly, it increased prices or downgraded user experiences to profit from the conspiracy it had arranged.​

According to free market worshipers/apologists, it should not have been possible for facebook to do those things.

Waiting for the first "this is big government run amok" article in response to this... wonder who will write it?

I don't know who will write it but I have no doubt you won't get it if someone does. I'm surprised you're against monopolies - I would think you would see it as a conduit to nationalization. It's a lot easier for the government to take over a single entity than a competitive industry and we all know there's nothing you hate more than capitalism (other than chaldeans, Jews, Christians, religious people in general, black people, gay people, unborn people etc).
 
Last edited:
Which of those have actually appeared as evidence in court? Looking at wikipedia, it looks like most of this isn't making it into the lawsuits.

I'm not "knowledged" on court procedure, but is evidence presented in a hearing, and were these hearings, or some other legal procedure? Is not the initial objective to induce a judge to hear evidence at a later time?

I'd have to read each lawsuit to determine which claims are made in which suit, and TX v PA enumerates all of them, to my knowledge.
 
Last edited:
I'm not "knowledged" on court procedure, but is evidence presented in a hearing, and were these hearings, or some other legal procedure? Is not the initial objective to induce a judge to hear evidence at a later time?

I'd have to read each lawsuit to determine which claims are made in which suit, and TX v PA enumerates all of them, to my knowledge.
edit: That wikipedia article has a color coded table with summaries of the status of each case. There's a separate page for pre-election lawsuits.



From wikipedia:

After the 2020 United States presidential election, the campaign for incumbent President Donald Trump and others filed over fifty lawsuits[1][2] contesting election processes, vote counting, and the vote certification process in multiple states, including Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.[3] Nearly all the suits were dismissed or withdrawn due to lack of evidence;[4] judges, lawyers, and other observers described the suits as "frivolous"[5] and "without merit".[6]
Trump, his supporters, and his attorneys falsely[7] asserted widespread election fraud in public statements, though few such assertions were made in court.[8]
The are 5 stories tied to that last line, the Wall Street Journal story is here:
https://web.archive.org/web/2020112...n-fraud-in-court-his-lawyers-dont-11605271267
It gives example of claims being made to the press not matching what lawyers say to judges. There is an example of a claim of fraud being made, but it's over a single vote. There's a letter between Trump lawyers and AG Barr over 3,000 votes that hasn't appeared in court yet.


“How is that a reliable process of gathering evidence?” said Judge Kiley, later adding, “The fact that you can’t disprove what’s asserted doesn’t mean what’s asserted is in fact true.”
 
Last edited:
edit: That wikipedia article has a color coded table with summaries of the status of each case. There's a separate page for pre-election lawsuits.



From wikipedia:

The are 5 stories tied to that last line, the Wall Street Journal story is here:
https://web.archive.org/web/2020112...n-fraud-in-court-his-lawyers-dont-11605271267
It gives example of claims being made to the press not matching what lawyers say to judges. There is an example of a claim of fraud being made, but it's over a single vote. There's a letter between Trump lawyers and AG Barr over 3,000 votes that hasn't appeared in court yet.

Assuming the wikipedia table is accurate, what I don't get is why some of the suits are asking for reversals or entire jurisdictions worth of ballots being thrown out instead of a hand recount with signature validation against voter registrations. Who would expect a court to void every vote for all of Wayne County? It's disappointing, particularly given the fact that all these low information fools interpret the results of these cases as proof that the election is legit in these places.
 
Last edited:
I'm not "knowledged" on court procedure, but is evidence presented in a hearing, and were these hearings, or some other legal procedure? Is not the initial objective to induce a judge to hear evidence at a later time?

I'd have to read each lawsuit to determine which claims are made in which suit, and TX v PA enumerates all of them, to my knowledge.


Generally speaking..

So you file a lawsuit (i.e. a complaint)... you can of course sue anyone for anything, but if your complaint doesn't state a claim for relief that the court can grant, or doesn't otherwise state elements of a claim, your opponent can file a motion to dismiss it.

For example, if you sue someone for fraud, you have to include every element of fraud in the complaint (and those vary from state-to-state), and any evidence needed to support that element, or otherwise adequate explanations for the court of where that evidence could be found if you don't have it. If your complaint doesn't include every element, upon motion from your opponent, the judge would dismiss it.

Bad lawyers, i.e. the only kind that will file these complaints for Trump, get their shit dismissed all the time, because they're either too incompetent to put together a complaint that will pass muster, or are just taking a client's money, and not telling the client up front they don't have a case.

There are three main different types of dismissal:

  • Voluntary dismissal= "oops I fucked up. Let me dismiss that myself and re-file."
  • Dismissal w/out prejudice = judge says your complaint fails to include some required element, but you can fix it and re-file; could also be called "dimissal w/leave to amend" or something like that. either way, it's not completely final.
  • Dismissal w/prejudice = you cannot re-file this claim. The judge basically swats it out of the court, like Dikembe Mutumbo blocking a shot, and you go on the internet and write that the judge just hates you and is totally biased.
Some evidence is often required to be attached to the complaint; for example, if you sue for breach of contract, you usually have to attach a copy of the contract to the complaint. I assume that's the case for some of these voter fraud complaints.

When they're getting dismissed outright, I assume either they're stating something that the court can't grant relief on, like "Moshun to maike Trump teh Presuhdent bye Tomoro," or they're otherwise not stating elements of a claim correctly, or they're not attaching evidence, or attaching evidence that doesn't actually show vote or procedural errors or fraud.

Some of the errors in some of these I've seen other lawyers tweet about are hilarious. That could be a whole separate thread here. Some of "affidavits" don't actually show fraud... I saw one get picked apart, and when they detailed why people claimed fraud occurred, it was stuff like "The election judges looked at me funny" or "I saw liberals sitting outside the polling station in a Prius and it was suspicious"


If the complaint survives a motion to dismiss, then yes, there might be evidentiary hearings where a judge would rule whether certain evidence is admissable... before ultimately a trial would be held before a judge (i.e. a bench trial) or jury, to resolve factual disputes.


Oh man, lawyers are so great!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It’s not internet censorship, but I don’t feel like starting a new thread and this is the closest fit...

Here’s a fresh link.

Will this same “Farce Force” turn its attention to the Michigan Fight Song?

“The Victors” surely has severe connotations of vanquishing the helpless throughout history. “Hail to the conquering heroes” surely is, since “words matter,” considered as inappropriate as “crazy” and “insane.”

I can’t wait for the next fundraising communication. My reply will be festooned with these banned words, with a salutation of GFY, which probably isn’t a banned phrase.
 
Last edited:
Here?s a fresh link.

Will this same ?Farce Force? turn its attention to the Michigan Fight Song?

?The Victors? surely has severe connotations of vanquishing the helpless throughout history. ?Hail to the conquering heroes? surely is, since ?words matter,? considered as inappropriate as ?crazy? and ?insane.?

I can?t wait for the next fundraising communication. My reply will be festooned with these banned words, with a salutation of GFY, which probably isn?t a banned phrase.

now that you mention it, the fight song does sound a bit like something a fascist colonizer would sing. Maybe it will draw more attention from the woke scolds if they start winning again.
 
now that you mention it, the fight song does sound a bit like something a fascist colonizer would sing. Maybe it will draw more attention from the woke scolds if they start winning again.

I mean, how inclusive is ?The Leaders and Best??
 
I think that depends on whether you're from a pre- or post-participation trophy generation.

“This ongoing work around language is part of the ITS effort to create a workplace that is diverse, equitable and inclusive.“

Can there even be leaders in this workplace environment? (And the statement omitted the “serial” comma, soon to be replaced by the term “inclusive” comma.)
 
Last edited:
?This ongoing work around language is part of the ITS effort to create a workplace that is diverse, equitable and inclusive.?

Can there even be leaders in this workplace environment? (And the statement omitted the ?serial? comma, soon to be replaced by the term ?inclusive? comma.)

where "diverse" equals diversity based on immutable characteristics (other than gender, which is now as malleable as modeling clay), not diversity of things that matter like ideas or opinions.
 
So apparently the people that can't stop crying about internet censorship think the solution is to make platforms legally liable for what people post to them and right now Trump and Co is pushing for it again (google any recent article about Section 230). Is there some new usage of the word 'freedom' that means the opposite of freedom that I haven't picked up on yet? Like literally/figuratively? Now censorship is avoided by clamping down and not letting people post stuff?
 
So apparently the people that can't stop crying about internet censorship think the solution is to make platforms legally liable for what people post to them and right now Trump and Co is pushing for it again (google any recent article about Section 230). Is there some new usage of the word 'freedom' that means the opposite of freedom that I haven't picked up on yet? Like literally/figuratively? Now censorship is avoided by clamping down and not letting people post stuff?

I heard this guy on the radio that I like, his name is Brian Suits, talking about this, and he said that Nancy Pelosi and J?Biden both share Trump?s opinion on 230.

Except for this board, I generally don?t do any social media.

I did a search engine search for ?recall Gavin Newsom petition? and through that found a number of places pretty close and convenient to me where I can go and sign the petition. Didn?t need no social media for that.
 
I heard this guy on the radio that I like, his name is Brian Suits, talking about this, and he said that Nancy Pelosi and J?Biden both share Trump?s opinion on 230.

Except for this board, I generally don?t do any social media.

I did a search engine search for ?recall Gavin Newsom petition? and through that found a number of places pretty close and convenient to me where I can go and sign the petition. Didn?t need no social media for that.


Well that ain't good. If both sides want it gone, who's keeping it alive?
 
Back
Top