Keith Law's (ESPN) top 5 MVP ballot

[kalinecountry]

I remember sometime back a year ago or so I got into it with some Minnesota smuck on the espn mb who insisted that Law was/is some brilliant Ivy League guy. LOL. Anyway, this is all you need to know about Law. btw, this may be one of the few times I disagree with good old KC/Ron. Cannot see the Trout kid as beating out Miggy, not unless more NY & LA 'Coast' writers vote than midwest guys. IDK, but seems to me that when one guy plays only part of the season (even if 85%), he ought to lose to a guy who goes out day after day. May not be fair, but injuries or call ups are part of the game and -- unless MC gets badly injured or goes into some tailspin -- I can't see Trout beating him out. Really can't.

klaw might be a smart guy and all, but hearing him on some podcasts and the way he comes off is... as some smug asshole who enjoys being the way he acts with his opinion on players.
For me, it's closer than what law and others make it out to be, a couple of tit hairs, but at this point in time a slim lead, also the bias of the coast voters at the end of the year.
Even 2010 howdydoodyhamilton played in just over 130 games and beat out Cabrera.
I just get the feeling unless the Tigers player is leading in every statistical category...like JV last year, then the writers will pick some weak link in the player.. like Cabrera's defense, and pick at it all day like a scab...politician.
Watch out for.....past years.... Cabrera Isn't the MVP because the Tigers don't make the playoffs,
....trout IS the MVP even though the angels don't make the playoffs.

 

[tomdalton22]

Anyone that knows baseball knows SB are overrated. Because he didn't score all those 38 times. And when he did he was scoring on a lot of those anyway, a hr, a double in the next at bat or a couple singles.

Speed is great, SB not so much. His defense should count though, I agree there.

I have never heard that SB are over rated. If you walk Trout there is a good chance that he ends up on second. That is a big advantage IMO

 

[zonietigerfan]

klaw might be a smart guy and all, but hearing him on some podcasts and the way he comes off is... as some smug asshole who enjoys being the way he acts with his opinion on players.
For me, it's closer than what law and others make it out to be, a couple of tit hairs, but at this point in time a slim lead, also the bias of the coast voters at the end of the year.
Even 2010 howdydoodyhamilton played in just over 130 games and beat out Cabrera.
I just get the feeling unless the Tigers player is leading in every statistical category...like JV last year, then the writers will pick some weak link in the player.. like Cabrera's defense, and pick at it all day like a scab...politician.
Watch out for.....past years.... Cabrera Isn't the MVP because the Tigers don't make the playoffs,
....trout IS the MVP even though the angels don't make the playoffs.

Yep, almost forgot Hammy was injured for a lot of his mvp season. Cabrera got hosed imo, though JH did have a great season. Now, the kid Trout is truly having a great rookie season and will run away with the ROY award. That and a strong 2nd for MVP should be good enough for him. And yeah, I agree with you on JV last year. Seems like a lot of the East Coast & LA writers and others were down on having a pitcher -- a "guy who only plays one out of 5 days" --were yakking up Cano & others over JV. In the end sanity took over and a deserving guy got the award. Miggy just may have to be resigned to the fact that he will win batting crowns, be an RBI leader & have all kinds of hitting crowns sans writers recognition. It happens. I'd be ok with it if the Tig's could win a title or 2...

 

[Mitchrapp]

I have never heard that SB are over rated. If you walk Trout there is a good chance that he ends up on second. That is a big advantage IMO

Who cares if he ends on 2nd. If the guy doesn't score based on that SB who gives a crap.

 

[wolverine304]

He's much more likely to score from second than first. You can't really be this dumb.

 

[Mitchrapp]

He's much more likely to score from second than first. You can't really be this dumb.

The point, come on go 3D, if he steals a base but doesn't score did it really matter? No. Or if the next guy hit a HR did it matter if he was on first or 2nd? No.

Use some logic.

 

[Thumb]

Who cares if he ends on 2nd. If the guy doesn't score based on that SB who gives a crap.

This argument is moronic Mitch. By the logic you're using we should not count singles, doubles, or triples that do not score a run. Oh and forget drawing walks unless the player can score.

Please Mitch, humor me, point out one single "baseball expert" who thinks stolen bases are overrated and not important.

You look at some of the players through the years who were big base stealers, and tell me the stats were overrated. guys like Henderson, Cobb, Brock, Bonds, Ichiro, Jeter....all overrated.

 

[wolverine304]

I'm sure that happens in some cases. But the majority of time he scores because he's one hell of a base runner

The lead off hitter before trout was brought up wasn't avg a run per game like he is. Isn't that weirdddd.


Saying stolen babes are overrated is retarded. A walk is basically a double.

 

[Thumb]

The point, come on go 3D, if he steals a base but doesn't score did it really matter? No. Or if the next guy hit a HR did it matter if he was on first or 2nd? No.

Use some logic.

Ironic statement No. 375456 made by Mitch.

 

[wolverine304]

"Who cares if miggy isn't as good defensively if the base hits he gives up doesn't score!?!" Mitch logic.

 

[Mitchrapp]

This argument is moronic Mitch. By the logic you're using we should not count singles, doubles, or triples that do not score a run. Oh and forget drawing walks unless the player can score.

Please Mitch, humor me, point out one single "baseball expert" who thinks stolen bases are overrated and not important.

You look at some of the players through the years who were big base stealers, and tell me the stats were overrated. guys like Henderson, Cobb, Brock, Bonds, Ichiro, Jeter....all overrated.

Just saying they're overrated, don't get on your stick again. You mean those same baseball experts that we chastise all the time? Like Keith law? Would he count.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I read this and it was perfect:

To illustrate this point, Click compared Ricky Henderson’s 1982 season with Pete Incaviglia’s 1986 rookie season. Using the run-expectancy table for 1982, Henderson’s 130 steals added 22.2 runs, while the 42 times he was caught stealing cost 20.6 runs. Despite a mind blowing 130 stolen bags, Henderson only added 1.6 runs to the A’s offense. Incaviglia on the other hand stole 3 bases, and was caught twice in 86’. He cost his team about half a run, and only about 2 runs less than Ricky Henderson’s 1982 base stealing performance.

 

[tomdalton22]

The point, come on go 3D, if he steals a base but doesn't score did it really matter? No. Or if the next guy hit a HR did it matter if he was on first or 2nd? No.

Use some logic.

I think you are the only one that isn't using any logic.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I just posted a perfect example. People see 130 bases, oh Rickie Henderson, hoo rah. I guess 1.6 runs is better than nothing but his 130 stolen bases didn't add much. You just don't counter with anything other than to say, wrong - blah blah.

 

[tomdalton22]

I just posted a perfect example. People see 130 bases, oh Rickie Henderson, hoo rah. I guess 1.6 runs is better than nothing but his 130 stolen bases didn't add much. You just don't counter with anything other than to say, wrong - blah blah.

well your example isn't apples to apples. Ricky Henderson got thrown out 24% of the time which creates outs. Trout has only got thrown out 7% of the time. So....stolen bases can be over rated IF the guy stealing is getting thrown out at a high rate. However, saying stolen bases are over rated is not an accurate statement. Bottom of the 9th and the game on the line, would you rather have a guy on 1st or a guy on 2nd?

 

[Mitchrapp]

well your example isn't apples to apples. Ricky Henderson got thrown out 24% of the time which creates outs. Trout has only got thrown out 7% of the time. So....stolen bases can be over rated IF the guy stealing is getting thrown out at a high rate. However, saying stolen bases are over rated is not an accurate statement. Bottom of the 9th and the game on the line, would you rather have a guy on 1st or a guy on 2nd?

You're right, maybe I should have said can be overrated. But I bet if they ran the numbers it wouldn't give the Angels as many runs as you might think.

The reason why I added the Rickey example because it was brought up and he had 130 SB.

And to be fair I always want a guy on 2nd over a guy on 1st. But IMO, its about the runs it creates not the possible runs it could create. You have to dig deeper that say someone is 38 of 41 stolen bases.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

You're right, maybe I should have said can be overrated. But I bet if they ran the numbers it wouldn't give the Angels as many runs as you might think.

The reason why I added the Rickey example because it was brought up and he had 130 SB.

And to be fair I always want a guy on 2nd over a guy on 1st. But IMO, its about the runs it creates not the possible runs it could create. You have to dig deeper that say someone is 38 of 41 stolen bases.

I get what you're saying....but it's 5% of the total argument that needs to be made then....

-What good is an Grand Slam in the 9th when your team is losing 14-3?
-What good is a double with 2 outs when you're left stranded?
-What good is a BB when the next guy GDP's?
-What good is ANY hit when you don't create a run with it??

Not just that, but you're forgetting to add in what having a guy on base like Trout will do to a pitcher.

-Is he worrying too much about the baserunner and makes a mistake to the next guy?
-Is he worrying too much and walk the next hitter?

You argument is valid......just extremely incomplete and short-sighted.

 

[tomdalton22]

You're right, maybe I should have said can be overrated. But I bet if they ran the numbers it wouldn't give the Angels as many runs as you might think.

The reason why I added the Rickey example because it was brought up and he had 130 SB.

And to be fair I always want a guy on 2nd over a guy on 1st. But IMO, its about the runs it creates not the possible runs it could create. You have to dig deeper that say someone is 38 of 41 stolen bases.

But you have to consider the possible runs it could create....just like a guy that walks a lot. He may not score many runs but having him on base gives you a better chance to score runs. Just like having a guy on 2B creates more opportunities to score runs vs just having a guy on 1B

 

[Mitchrapp]

I get what you're saying....but it's 5% of the total argument that needs to be made then....

-What good is an Grand Slam in the 9th when your team is losing 14-3?
-What good is a double with 2 outs when you're left stranded?
-What good is a BB when the next guy GDP's?
-What good is ANY hit when you don't create a run with it??

Not just that, but you're forgetting to add in what having a guy on base like Trout will do to a pitcher.

-Is he worrying too much about the baserunner and makes a mistake to the next guy?
-Is he worrying too much and walk the next hitter?

You argument is valid......just extremely incomplete and short-sighted.

Or a SB could mean a walk to Miggy, lol. Have to look at both sides.

 

[Thumb]

Just saying they're overrated, don't get on your stick again. You mean those same baseball experts that we chastise all the time? Like Keith law? Would he count.

Well I was going off this statement: "Anyone that knows baseball knows SB are overrated. Because he didn't score all those 38 times. And when he did he was scoring on a lot of those anyway, a hr, a double in the next at bat or a couple singles. " ~ Mitch.

So if anyone who knows baseball knows this you should be able to find some baseball expert to back you up on the idea that: "And SB is the most overrated stat." ~ Mitch.

I get your reasoning, you want Miggy to win, I do too...but you can't discount the fact that Trout is going to steal 40+ bases this year as overrated, that's just silly.