Lions rework contract of DT Akeem Spence then trade him to Dolphins

[Mitchrapp]

You severely underestimate the fickleness of our fan base. Win a playoff game and the narrative becomes "what does it really matter, the point is to win a Super Bowl?" A third of the NFL hasn't won a Super Bowl and we act like we're some cursed franchise. We're like Philly without the over the top nastiness. It's unique in how it reacts to every win, loss, setback, and progression with the same amount of skepticism regardless of how pieces change.

How many times did we hear from people that things wouldn't change unless Ford Sr was dead or sold the team. That happened and people are still holding onto decisions and results from when he was in charge. I'm optimistic about the direction the team is headed and no amount of 'Same Old Lions' bullshit rhetoric is going to change that.

Possibly but you have to make the next step. Like when we won a playoff game a few years ago after years of no playoffs - it was awesome. Once that happened, the next step win one, or win a division at least.

I'd like to believe change is going to happened because of a new GM and HC.. but in the NFL teams go from crap to SB quickly. And yet Quinn has 2 years of 9-7.

 

[tonyballs]

Quin went after his guys and decided to attempt to fix the run game and neglect every other facet of the game... Super obvious. It's one of those drafts that will make him a genius or a dud. This draft doesn't improve the run game then it was an absolute waste...Every...single... pick.... wasted.

Or... run game fixed. We win a bunch of games. And he's a genius.

He neglected every other facet of the game? I wouldn't go that far. He picked up a playmaker in the 3rd (Walker) and drafted a potential starter (at least) in Hand. Time will tell.

 

[tonyballs]

Of course mocks don't matter. It was a joke. But a joke that has some merit unless you're happy with 9-7. Defense wins in this game.

So, we're 9-7 now because we drafted offense??? lol. You have no clue..
Defense wins games eh? Go check out the last 10 Super Bowls and tell me "defense wins games". Maybe the Broncos a few yrs back. Other than that, most of them have been shootouts. Take your old school mentality somewhere else...

 

[Mitchrapp]

So, we're 9-7 now because we drafted offense??? lol. You have no clue..
Defense wins games eh? Go check out the last 10 Super Bowls and tell me "defense wins games". Maybe the Broncos a few yrs back. Other than that, most of them have been shootouts. Take your old school mentality somewhere else...

Not talking about the SB themselves.. Thing about Philly is they had a good offense and defense. Detroit is not going to outscore teams. How do account for Minnesota with Case Keenum. Or Jacksonville for Jake Bortles.

Bortles certainly doesn't win 10 games with us. Maybe he wins 5. I mean it's freakin' Blake Bortles. You don't need a good QB to win when you have defense. Bring that defense up maybe we win 12 games consistently.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Last time DD wins, we had defense. Since then 7-9-9 wins.

 

[tonyballs]

Not talking about the SB themselves.. Thing about Philly is they had a good offense and defense. Detroit is not going to outscore teams. How do account for Minnesota with Case Keenum. Or Jacksonville for Jake Bortles.

Bortles certainly doesn't win 10 games with us. Maybe he wins 5. I mean it's freakin' Blake Bortles. You don't need a good QB to win when you have defense. Bring that defense up maybe we win 12 games consistently.

Detroit should have a high potent offense. You're damn right they'll outscore teams this yr.

And you just said it yourself. Maybe if Jacksonville had a decent QB then they'd be Super Bowl winners. You're right though...Blake Bortles....end of story lol.
Jacksonville had a power running attack. A huge part of their success to making the playoffs.

 

[tonyballs]

Last time DD wins, we had defense. Since then 7-9-9 wins.

Meh. They have made changes on the defensive side of the ball through players, coaches and scheme. Patricia brings out the best in what he's got. Look what he did for Van Noy....

 

[kmd47]

Meh. They have made changes on the defensive side of the ball through players, coaches and scheme. Patricia brings out the best in what he's got. Look what he did for Van Noy....

If we can find a little pass rush, Ansah being healthy in a contract year, Hyder coming back to even half of what he has, with Zettle Williams Washington, and young guys like Hand Ledbetter and maybe even Valoaga can develop.... I mean the guy is 6 6 275 and looked decent when on the field last year in LIMITED action.... I'm with everyone else when I wish they would have went defense heavy this draft, but with the new coaches and scheme they must have liked what we had coming back better than anyone they would have drafted high this year.... Seems like a stretch but we just gotta trust that BQ and Patricia know what they are getting into...

 

[tonyballs]

If we can find a little pass rush, Ansah being healthy in a contract year, Hyder coming back to even half of what he has, with Zettle Williams Washington, and young guys like Hand Ledbetter and maybe even Valoaga can develop.... I mean the guy is 6 6 275 and looked decent when on the field last year in LIMITED action.... I'm with everyone else when I wish they would have went defense heavy this draft, but with the new coaches and scheme they must have liked what we had coming back better than anyone they would have drafted high this year.... Seems like a stretch but we just gotta trust that BQ and Patricia know what they are getting into...

Hey, I wanted defense as well lol. Or a RB like Guice. Goes to show that we know nothing when it comes to what the Lions want.
I keep reading some positive things on this Meredith kid they picked up as a UDFA. He can get to the QB, plays the EDGE and has a natural ability to swatting down passes. Very productive player in college. Someone to keep an eye on...

 

[inkfreq]

My point on mock drafts was because there is all this discussion on "value" of a pick. It's bullshit, pure and simple. No one knows where scouts value a guy.

A few years back the Bears took Kyle Long in the first round. Every mock draft out there had him between the third and fifth rounds. Kiper immediately started his "value" discussions.

Turns out about 7 other teams we looking at taking him in the first. He wasn't going to last until the 2nd round no matter what. He's been a Pro Bowler since, and their best lineman.

A few years back, we drafted a guy named Laken Tomlinson in the first. He was seen mostly as a second round player, but we found out later the Colts were prepared to take him with the very next pick. Turned into a total bust, but the night of the draft Kiper was saying it was a slight reach, but good value.

These mock draft guys don't have a damned clue. I looked up the 2017 mock drafts and who did the best at picking them. Couldn't find anything on 2018 yet. The guy with the closest mock to the real draft got NINE picks right. Nine in the first round, out of 32.

Hey, he may have been the best, but that's not even remotely close, especially when a 4th grader can pick the top 5 with pretty good accuracy most years.

Keep this "value" crap out of it, there's no such thing, because not one of us, or anyone else, is smart enough to be a pro football scout, and we have no idea how the scouts value anyone. All we have is the word of people who were never good enough to be scouts, so they became writers instead.

I work for a newspaper company, and I can tell you that the VAST majority of sports writers aren't even journalists, they never went to journalism school They are former mid to low level college athletes who can discuss sports with a very small degree of intelligence.

Our best sports writer can't even hang with me in a sports discussion, and I'm no genius on the subject.

 

[LKP]

If the player turns out good, who really cares if it's a deemed "reach". Golladay was a reach.


Time for Ragnow, Johnson, Walker, Hand, Crosby and Bawden to produce in their various roles. Some limited to start and others bigger roles early.


Davis, Tabor, Golladay, JRM, Roberts, Decker, Robinson, Glasgow, Killebrew keep improving too.


The Lions added talent in areas of need is step 1. Now produce on the field

 

[inkfreq]

If we can find a little pass rush, Ansah being healthy in a contract year, Hyder coming back to even half of what he has, with Zettle Williams Washington, and young guys like Hand Ledbetter and maybe even Valoaga can develop.... I mean the guy is 6 6 275 and looked decent when on the field last year in LIMITED action.... I'm with everyone else when I wish they would have went defense heavy this draft, but with the new coaches and scheme they must have liked what we had coming back better than anyone they would have drafted high this year.... Seems like a stretch but we just gotta trust that BQ and Patricia know what they are getting into...

I look for the Lions to sign Ricky Jean Francois this week. They moved Spencer for a reason, and they haven't signed Hankins yet, so I figure they are targeting someone they can't sign until after Wednesday without losing compensatory picks.

Patricia is familiar with Francois and has gotten the most out of him in the past, and he's not going to break the bank.

 

[mhughes0021]

Detroit should have a high potent offense. You're damn right they'll outscore teams this yr.

And you just said it yourself. Maybe if Jacksonville had a decent QB then they'd be Super Bowl winners. You're right though...Blake Bortles....end of story lol.
Jacksonville had a power running attack. A huge part of their success to making the playoffs.

Jacksonville nearly making the super bowl had everything to do with their defense. Fucking Nick foles just won a super bowl. Stafford is well above average.... the reason we are not a consistently good team is because our defense isnt any good.... and it really didn't improve any this off-season.

Dline is worse without ngata.
Linebackers improved slightly... maybe?
Corners are the same - hayden + shead
Safeties are the same

 

[LKP]

Jacksonville nearly making the super bowl had everything to do with their defense. Fucking Nick foles just won a super bowl. Stafford is well above average.... the reason we are not a consistently good team is because our defense isnt any good.... and it really didn't improve any this off-season.

Dline is worse without ngata.
Linebackers improved slightly... maybe?
Corners are the same - hayden + shead
Safeties are the same

Dline got better. Hand, Kennard to help rush, Patricia multilpe front scheme, healthy Hyder, healthy Ansah, Robinson year 3, CWash in 3-4 scheme and 16 games of Slvester Williams versus 5 games of Ngata. The real comparison is Williams to Spence since Spence played 11 games as a starter last year. That is 7 ways it got better.

LB Davis year 2, JRM year 2, Kennard at SAM over Worrilow, Patricia scheme. Jones to Whitehead could be a wash. 4 ways it got better.

Secondary improved with Shead over Hayden and Walker provides better safety depth. Slay, Quin are good, Wilson back from injury missed most of last year which helps run support and Diggs proved to be a safety. Tabor year 2. And Lawson if he plays like 2015/2016 not 2017.

Dline improve a lot, LB improved some and secondary improved a lot


You are way off in your assessment hughes. Pay attention to the changes and the injuries

 

[tonyballs]

Jacksonville nearly making the super bowl had everything to do with their defense. Fucking Nick foles just won a super bowl. Stafford is well above average.... the reason we are not a consistently good team is because our defense isnt any good.... and it really didn't improve any this off-season.

Dline is worse without ngata.
Linebackers improved slightly... maybe?
Corners are the same - hayden + shead
Safeties are the same

Jacksonville has a great D. I'm not denying that but they've had a solid D for a few yrs now. Fournette coming to that team was a godsend. He brings a whole new element to that team.
You're right. Nick Foles did win a Super Bowl. He was also the MVP of that game. He torched the Patriots.
Our D hasn't improved? How do you know? New schemes, new coaches, some healthy players coming back, a few new players joining the squad. Yet, you have already written them off?? Lol. Why don't we see what Patricia is bringing to the table first? Not one single snap has happened yet. Let's chill

 

[LKP]

Foles was a pretty expensive backup. And who knows if they even make the playoffs with Foles if he played all year. Foles had a 79 QB rating during the regular season then got hot in the playoffs. The Falcons Divisional game they scored like 15 points. If Stafford leads them to 15 they lose a playoff game. He need 46 to beat the Saints and 27 to beat the Cowboys and Seattle.


Eagles had home field with Wentz having over 100 QB rating for most of the year


Stafford beat the Vikings too this year like Foles. Foles is also a 2nd round pick that failed on several teams.


Eagles are toast if Foles has to play 16.

 

[mhughes0021]

If Stafford leads them to 15 they lose a playoff game.

And this is why people are upset when 4 of 6 draft picks go to the run game/offense.

There's a high probability slay, Lawson, Wilson and quin are the starting secondary... which means there's no improvement in coverage. No improvement in pass rush = Recipe for disaster. Minor adjustments could be made... like tabor stepping up. Nothing ground breaking.

I think they improved their lb coverage over last year.

 

[LKP]

There is pass rush and coverage improvements. Shead, Walker in 3 safety looks, better lb coverage, lawson can play better which is proven, tabor. That is a ton of improvement. Slay and quin are incredible players too

 

[mhughes0021]

Allot of post draft rankings have the lions 18-20 which is lower than the pre draft ranking around 15ish. Oline and rb picks are rarely sexy.... which is part of the reason for the slide. The other part is people are on the fence if Ragnow and kerryon will make much of a difference. I saw both espn and nfl networks do a 5 most productive rookie rbs...kerryon didn't make either networks list. Again these projections mean squat... but you can't blame anyone for being skeptical in regards to the lions being able to run the ball. Caldwell talked about it for 3 years before he finally got canned. I'll believe it ween i see it.

 

[tomdalton22]

How are you guys saying that the Lions D is better or worse without even playing a game yet? Are you saying you think the personnel might look better or worse on paper?