Lions rework contract of DT Akeem Spence then trade him to Dolphins

[LKP]

How are you guys saying that the Lions D is better or worse without even playing a game yet? Are you saying you think the personnel might look better or worse on paper?

Personnel is better/more talented and more experienced. It should be better. It's more of saying a way they will improve. Patricia scheme is a proven winner too.

For example CB 2 gets better by Tabor stepping up in year 2 OR Shead playing well OR Lawson playing like he did 2015/2016. There is a 99% chance it's better. And one of those three could be the nickel improvement unless Diggs goes back to nickel.

Pass rush and Run D from DLine
Ansah healthier. That is a way to improve
Hyder played 0 snaps. Hyder actually playing improves the team
Washington fits a 3-4 better
Patricia scheme again is a proven winner
Hand is influx of young talent
Sylvester Williams at nose 16 games should play versus Ngata 5/Spence 11 games
A'Shawn Robinson improving further is another way they can improve in pass rush and run D
Zettel was solid and can continue to be.
Kennard improves pass rush from the SAM spot and could play some 4-3 DE too.

Oline
Decker 16 games or Decker 8 games
Wagner 16 games or Wagner 11 games plus dealing with ankle
Lang 16 games or Lang dealing with injuries
Ragnow good influx of young talent to solidify every position on line
Glasgow solid
Better OT and guard/center depth with Crosby, C Robinson healthy, Wesley Johnson and Kenny Wiggins and Joe Dahl healthy

RB
Blount is a proven good power back
Kerryon Johnson in flux of talent that can be a jack of all trades rushing with some power and outside, receiving and pass blocking.
Abdullah one last chance. Guaranteed he plays extra hard in a contract year
Riddick continues to be the pass catching matchup nightmare against LBs and safeties. He can focus on that.

There are many ways this defense and offense seemingly improved.

We'll see how injury roulette goes. Will we be like Rams and be healthiest team in NFL last two seasons or will the Lions be average or have a ton of injuries that derail them.

 

[mhughes0021]

How are you guys saying that the Lions D is better or worse without even playing a game yet? Are you saying you think the personnel might look better or worse on paper?

On paper its the same personnel as last year mixed in with a hodge podge of new lbs that no one knows if they can produce here or not (kennard never really did anything in New York either). Tougher schedule vs the pass. Scheme works to your favor here n there where Patricia hopefully can influence some impact plays... but consistent good defense comes from having players. We don't have enough good players on that side of the ball.

That run game better work or else we will be throwing the ball all day to catch up.

 

[Mitchrapp]

How are you guys saying that the Lions D is better or worse without even playing a game yet? Are you saying you think the personnel might look better or worse on paper?

Not any different than saying the Tigers will lose a hundred games before the season starts. It's sports.

 

[LKP]

On paper its the same personnel as last year mixed in with a hodge podge of new lbs that no one knows if they can produce here or not (kennard never really did anything in New York either). Tougher schedule vs the pass. Scheme works to your favor here n there where Patricia hopefully can influence some impact plays... but consistent good defense comes from having players. We don't have enough good players on that side of the ball.

That run game better work or else we will be throwing the ball all day to catch up.

Shead and Tabor playing more is not the same people. Walker as 3rd safety would be a big change for a good chunk of snaps. Wilson missed most of the year so that is another big change in the secondary in terms of snap count.

Dline has significant changes too. Hyder 0 snaps to Hyder 2018 snaps. Sylvester Williams instead of Ngata for 5 games and Spence for 11 games. Hand will get a good chunk of snaps too. Ansah healthier. Plus 3-4 looks.

Major major changes in secondary and Dline. And LB of course with Kennard and Jones versus Worrilow and Whitehead. Kennard was a solid player, Worrilow was trash. We upgrade at SAM big time. Jones and Whitehead can be a wash. Davis and JRM with more experience is also a positive impact.

And Patricia proven scheme.

This can be a top 5 defense. They were already great in turnovers forced. They were average last year in passer rating and run game hurt without a run stuffer/Wilson out most of the year with rookie LBs and Worrilow. Top 5 defense is definitely in play, top 10 pretty probable unless Slay, Ansah, Quin die.

 

[tomdalton22]

Shead and Tabor playing more is not the same people. Walker as 3rd safety would be a big change for a good chunk of snaps. Wilson missed most of the year so that is another big change in the secondary in terms of snap count.

Dline has significant changes too. Hyder 0 snaps to Hyder 2018 snaps. Sylvester Williams instead of Ngata for 5 games and Spence for 11 games. Hand will get a good chunk of snaps too. Ansah healthier. Plus 3-4 looks.

Major major changes in secondary and Dline. And LB of course with Kennard and Jones versus Worrilow and Whitehead. Kennard was a solid player, Worrilow was trash. We upgrade at SAM big time. Jones and Whitehead can be a wash. Davis and JRM with more experience is also a positive impact.

And Patricia proven scheme.

This can be a top 5 defense. They were already great in turnovers forced. They were average last year in passer rating and run game hurt without a run stuffer/Wilson out most of the year with rookie LBs and Worrilow. Top 5 defense is definitely in play, top 10 pretty probable unless Slay, Ansah, Quin die.

you are a lunatic. The Lions were 21st in scoring defense, 27th in yards per game allowed, 18th in rushing yards allowed and 27th in receiving yards per game. It's not like they added a bunch of all pros. They will be lucky to be in the middle of the pack...which would be a nice improvement over last year.

 

[LKP]

you are a lunatic. The Lions were 21st in scoring defense, 27th in yards per game allowed, 18th in rushing yards allowed and 27th in receiving yards per game. It's not like they added a bunch of all pros. They will be lucky to be in the middle of the pack...which would be a nice improvement over last year.

15th in QB rating allowed, 2nd in turnovers forced, 21st in YPC allowed (without Ngata and Wilson most of year)

Ansah healthy is like adding an all pro. Hyder healthy adds a solid DE. Hand is a good young talent. Scheme change is a huge change. Kennard is a solid player add. The pass rush should be much improved.

Which helps the pass defense. Rush D again scheme, Williams added is a big change, Hand added, Kennard and scheme. They can be top 10 in both pass defense and rush defense (QB rating and YPC allowed)

 

[tomdalton22]

15th in QB rating allowed, 2nd in turnovers forced, 21st in YPC allowed (without Ngata and Wilson most of year)

Ansah healthy is like adding an all pro. Hyder healthy adds a solid DE. Hand is a good young talent. Scheme change is a huge change. Kennard is a solid player add. The pass rush should be much improved.

Which helps the pass defense. Rush D again scheme, Williams added is a big change, Hand added, Kennard and scheme. They can be top 10 in both pass defense and rush defense (QB rating and YPC allowed)

you assume that young players will get better, the additions are better than what was there, everyone will be healthy and a new scheme will be an improvement. Some players will regress. There are always injuries. Young players & rookies don't always work out. Changing a scheme doesn't always work.

 

[LKP]

you assume that young players will get better, the additions are better than what was there, everyone will be healthy and a new scheme will be an improvement. Some players will regress. There are always injuries. Young players & rookies don't always work out. Changing a scheme doesn't always work.

1) Young players typically get better. Not all but a lot do. If some of the Lions rookies add talent and year 2 and 3 players take that step forward, then the Lions get better.
2) Patricia's scheme is proven
3) Some will regress and get injured. But typically it's not proven good players which are key to Lions success except for injuries (Ansah/Oline). However, we are stating ways the Lions improved. Ansah healthy is a way they could improve dramatically. Same with Oline health. If Decker, Lang, Wagner, Ragnow and Glasgow stay relatively healthy, this offense could score 30 ppg.


We know what we will get from Stafford, Jones, Tate, Riddick, Blount (proven power back). And it will be good. We know we will get good from Decker, Lang and Wagner if healthy. And at least solid from Glasgow. Ragnow increases the talent with a learning curve. Also the bar was low from Swanson last year so easier for Ragnow to exceed it. TE blocking should be better with the additions. What will Michael Roberts do in year 2 for Detroit. If Luke Wilson gets the targets, can he excel with Stafford. He is athletic. This offense has a ton of talent, good Cooter scheme and a very good QB. Only team in league with two 1,000 yard WRs.


Defense, we know Slay and Quin are good and Davis is talented. We know Ansah is very good when healthy too. We know Patricia's scheme is proven. We know we have many other solid players in Robinson, Kennard, Lawson, Wilson, Williams, Hyder. Will Tabor, JRM step up. Can Shead and Christian Jones improve the team over Hayden and Whitehead. Can Walker and Hand make a rookie impact? The Lions have lots of talent on D too, a coach proven to get the most out of talent and hide weaknesses with his scheme and some very good players on defense. This can be a top 5 or top 10 defense with just some of the improvement happening. Maybe it's just Ansah health and Tabor and Davis improvement. Hyder, JRM, Christian Jones, Lawson and Shead do nothing. Ansah, Tabor and Davis improvement alone can give us a top 10 defense combined with Slay and Quin and solid role players.


Agnew great returner, Martin good punter and Prater great kicker as well. Coverage has been solid every year in the Quin years too.


This is a very talented team with good proven coaching. 10 win floor.




The Lions improved in many many many ways this offseason. Quinn knows how to locate the weaknesses and has been hitting in the draft and Free agency.

 

[mhughes0021]

Shead and Tabor playing more is not the same people. Walker as 3rd safety would be a big change for a good chunk of snaps. Wilson missed most of the year so that is another big change in the secondary in terms of snap count.

Dline has significant changes too. Hyder 0 snaps to Hyder 2018 snaps. Sylvester Williams instead of Ngata for 5 games and Spence for 11 games. Hand will get a good chunk of snaps too. Ansah healthier. Plus 3-4 looks.

Major major changes in secondary and Dline. And LB of course with Kennard and Jones versus Worrilow and Whitehead. Kennard was a solid player, Worrilow was trash. We upgrade at SAM big time. Jones and Whitehead can be a wash. Davis and JRM with more experience is also a positive impact.

And Patricia proven scheme.

This can be a top 5 defense. They were already great in turnovers forced. They were average last year in passer rating and run game hurt without a run stuffer/Wilson out most of the year with rookie LBs and Worrilow. Top 5 defense is definitely in play, top 10 pretty probable unless Slay, Ansah, Quin die.

Shead was a lower rated fa than dj hayden. Played 50 games in 6 years and hasn't played a snap since 2016 coming off a blown out knee. Tabor has shown nothing except how to get torched. Almost no changes in secondary personnel. Dline is the same shitty dline as last year minus ngata plus williams.

I bet we play 3 safeties like 5% of the time... not a good reason to use to say we will be better. Especially when the third safety youre talking about is a 3rd rd reach rookie.

 

[LKP]

Shead was a lower rated fa than dj hayden. Played 50 games in 6 years and hasn't played a snap since 2016 coming off a blown out knee. Tabor has shown nothing except how to get torched. Almost no changes in secondary personnel. Dline is the same shitty dline as last year minus ngata plus williams.

I bet we play 3 safeties like 5% of the time... not a good reason to use to say we will be better. Especially when the third safety youre talking about is a 3rd rd reach rookie.

Patricia uses it a ton. Lions played it often last year. Wilson was hurt last year and is back. Tabor was solid when he played. Not torched at all. You are just a hater there. And Lawson 2015/2016 form is an improvement. There were many changes to the secondary. Shead can play outside and inside. Played well in 2016 then got hurt in 2017. He is proven better than Hayden but had the major injury so a cheap deal. Also smart to get players on prove it deals. Patriot way really

 

[mhughes0021]

Patricia uses it a ton. Lions played it often last year. Wilson was hurt last year and is back. Tabor was solid when he played. Not torched at all. You are just a hater there. And Lawson 2015/2016 form is an improvement. There were many changes to the secondary. Shead can play outside and inside. Played well in 2016 then got hurt in 2017. He is proven better than Hayden but had the major injury so a cheap deal. Also smart to get players on prove it deals. Patriot way really

Tabor 61.3 pff grade. Below average. Your bible even think he sucks.

 

[LKP]

Tabor looked good at end of year. Experience matters. Lions have such a loaded secondary

 

[tomdalton22]

This is a very talented team with good proven coaching. 10 win floor.

their floor is 6 wins

11 is their ceiling

I think it will be 8 or 9

 

[mhughes0021]

Floor 5
Ceiling 10
8-9 realistic.

 

[grandy]

Floor 5
Ceiling 10
8-9 realistic.

I never have high expectations for a new coach so this looks pretty realistic to me. A large range of wins-losses in year one. I wouldn't be surprised to see them struggle to start the year, especially with some tough opponents. I'm more interested to see how they do in the second half as everyone settles in, should be a good preview of things to come (barring injuries).

 

[LKP]

This team is better than the 9-7 team from last year. 10 wins is the floor. 14 the ceiling.


Stafford healthy is good for at least 9 wins. So 10 is the floor

 

[LKP]

Jets rebuild
Miami rebuild
Seattle rebuild
San Fran rebuild
Zona rebuild
Dallas rebuild
Bears perpetual rebuild


8 wins right there
Pats, Rams, Panthers are in Detroit. 2-1 there
at Buffalo, QB issues. Lions win
Split Vikings, split Packers


13-3

 

[tonyballs]

you assume that young players will get better, the additions are better than what was there, everyone will be healthy and a new scheme will be an improvement. Some players will regress. There are always injuries. Young players & rookies don't always work out. Changing a scheme doesn't always work.

Then quit your fkn whining then. You just said what LKP has been saying for yrs and yet you bash him lol.

 

[tonyballs]

Tabor 61.3 pff grade. Below average. Your bible even think he sucks.

PFF lol. That's ok. You were part of the hate club for Slay as well. That turned out well...baaaaaaah. Corners take time. I can't wait to watch this kid grow in Patricia's defense...

 

[mhughes0021]

PFF lol. That's ok. You were part of the hate club for Slay as well. That turned out well...baaaaaaah. Corners take time. I can't wait to watch this kid grow in Patricia's defense...

I don't recall hating slay per se. Most elite corners are taken in rd 1 and i thought it was a major need that deserved to be addressed early for a number of years yet always neglected. It baffled me how we kept trying to groom mid round picks to become quality starters. There was literally a gap from Terry fair to slay before we picked a corner in the early rounds... ridiculous. Slay progressed as well as anyone could have imagined.