MSU vs BYU

[Sbee]

Has he put up huge numbers? Did you see my edits where I showed that he's ranked 41st overall with a crappy QBR?

I'm not focusing on it. Lucious brought it up so I cracked a joke about it. But since you got your panties in a wad about it again, I'll say this - I was right about ND's front 7 and you were wrong. And I'm right about DeShone Kizer and you are wrong. Just make it a point to never admit you're wrong about anything - bring it up and then deflect by accusing me of being the one bringing it up. You'll go to the grave defending mediocrity at MSU because you think that makes you the true fan.

Keep fighting this Deshon Kizer thing, if you love QBR so much, did you look at last year when he was 12th in the country? Yes, he's 40th this year which is rather pedestrian, though it's only been 6 games and the last one was played in a monsoon where his QBR was 108th in the country last week, I wouldn't hold that against him. He's also averaging 9.2 yards per attempt which is 12th in the country. He's still the #1 overall pick by a few sites. You watch him, he has a strong arm, he's elusive, accurate, and makes good decisions on the move. But hey, MSU beat ND and Spartamack said that he's not very good and he knows more than anyone, so he has to be terrible.

 

[Sbee]

Amen. Like Sbee said, TOC's not the only reason we're losing but what he doesn't seem to grasp is he's a pretty big part of it and there's no upside to keeping him in there.

Until the OL improves, QB play and the offense as a whole will continue to be bad. I've said all along, if the performance in practice is even close, you play the younger guy. I said that before TOC won the job, said it all along. Indications have been that TOC has clearly been the top guy in practice reps, but I'd be all for giving Terry or Lewerke first team reps in practice and making a decision based on that. I wouldn't base much on one drive against BYU after the outcome was essentially decided.

 

[Spartanmack]

Keep fighting this Deshon Kizer thing, if you love QBR so much, did you look at last year when he was 12th in the country? Yes, he's 40th this year which is rather pedestrian, though it's only been 6 games and the last one was played in a monsoon where his QBR was 108th in the country last week, I wouldn't hold that against him. He's also averaging 9.2 yards per attempt which is 12th in the country. He's still the #1 overall pick by a few sites. You watch him, he has a strong arm, he's elusive, accurate, and makes good decisions on the move. But hey, MSU beat ND and Spartamack said that he's not very good and he knows more than anyone, so he has to be terrible.

LOL - you're the one that brought up Deshone Kizer. But since you won't let it go yes, I prefer QBR to articles from draft experts. And yes, I saw his average QBR for 2015 where he was ranked 12th - woo hoo, as the 12th best QB that might have gotten him drafted in the 3rd round. Did you also see his game by game QBR for 2015 where he padded his stats against UVA, Temple, UMass and Wake Forest? I did - I already brought it up before we even played ND and again after we did and you said he was a great QB.

He won't get drafted in the top half of the first round unless the Browns or the Jets have a pick in there. I don't think he'll even go in the first round but hey, sbee read an article and looked at a mock draft and you never question the experts (or our coaches for that matter) because they know more than anyone and therefore should never be doubted, so he must be great.

 

[Spartanmack]

Very opinionated, but also very uniformed. First, you want to fire Matt Mueller? Seriously? he's not that involved in recruiting other than setting up itineraries for kids when they get on campus, Curtis Blackwell is way more involved in recruiting for a non coach.

So you bring up 2014 as an indictment of Barnett? You do understand that Narduzzi was the DC at that time, I'm sure you didn't think that when you made this post but you'll somehow spin that and say those games were Barnett's fault. We lost to the CFP finalist and National champion, with JT Barrett playing the best game I've ever seen a QB play in East lansing. Those were damn good football teams, even Baylor, who was a top 5 team with one of the top offenses in the country. We did hold them under their season average and also held them to negative rushing yards. It's important to make a team one dimensional and take the run away, late in the game, if Baylor was able to get first downs on the ground they would have won the game.

Good point on the DB's being bad in 2015, further indictment of Barnett. Never mind that our #1 corner on the depth chart got hurt in the Oregon game and missed the rest of the season, that our senior safety leader got hurt in the big ten opener and missed the regular season, played a few snaps against bama, our other starting corner had mono and then a concussion, we went into the Michigan game starting Greyson Miller and Khari Willis, two freshmen who just had their red shirts burned out of emergency. Yes, Barnett did a horrible job with the DB's in 2015.

MSU has been very good on the OL for the last few years, Connor Cook had plenty of time to pass and we're putting RB's in the NFL, running the football well. We've dominated in the trenches for the last few seasons, Staten is also not the problem.

Yes, recruiting does matter. Each assistant coach works a certain territory and southern Ohio is critical. It's not just Moeller but other schools in that critical area. Getting kids out of Ohio has been instrumental in our success as a program. We haven't been a pulling in top rated classes, but those rankings are also biased toward larger classes and we luckily have very low attrition. Our average star ranking has generally been higher than overall rankings, not sure if you understand these things though. Do you understand how good our DL class for 2017 is? That's where games are won and we killed it there with Robertson, King, Panisuik, Jones.

This team is suffering from a few recruiting misses, but mainly from losing 3 excellent OL, dismissing two DL's that were heading for major roles, and suffering an injury to your potential starting LT. Some fans want heads to roll, that doesn't make us better in the slightest but some uninformed people want their pound of flesh.

Just more excuse making served with a heaping helping of stupidity. Whether Mueller recruits or not, he's a horrible coach. He's not developing players - that's clear. And in 2014 Barnett was a position coach - specifically the d-backs. We can't demote or even fire Narduzzi because he's the head coach at Pittsburgh now. I stopped reading after the first sentence of the second paragraph because reading your posts makes me feel dumber for having read them.

 

[byco42]

Pains me to see this level of discord over adversity that pales in comparison to what the program as a whole as experienced recently.

 

[Sbee]

Pains me to see this level of discord over adversity that pales in comparison to what the program as a whole as experienced recently.

Mob mentality, wanting someone's head on a platter because the defending big ten champions suffered some key losses at key positions. Blow it up, heck, fire MD, he's running the show. Maybe we can hire PJ Fleck and he can clean house.

 

[Spartanmack]

Mob mentality, wanting someone's head on a platter because the defending big ten champions suffered some key losses at key positions. Blow it up, heck, fire MD, he's running the show. Maybe we can hire PJ Fleck and he can clean house.

yeah, that's what everyone is saying - burn it down and rebuild it. And who is this mob anyway? You say the dumbest things sometimes. Of course, it's how lazy people argue - mischaracterize the opinions of others, label them as extreme or mob-think to dismiss them offhand - and you're lazy.

 

[LuciousGameWinner]

Why is it so difficult to post pictures here? Maybe because I'm using my phone, but how beautiful is that statistic? Who knew that playing 10 yards off receivers wasn't a good idea. Good lord Barnett, what has happened with this defense?

 

[LuciousGameWinner]

Oh and on top of that. We've played some high powered offenses right? I mean Wisconsin is a spread team right? Ohio State is going to murder us this year.JT Barrett will break the single game TD record.

 

[byco42]

why is it so difficult to post pictures here? Maybe because i'm using my phone, but how beautiful is that statistic? Who knew that playing 10 yards off receivers wasn't a good idea. Good lord barnett, what has happened with this defense?

All this Spartan anguish is not in anyway gratifying to me.

 

[Sbee]

yeah, that's what everyone is saying - burn it down and rebuild it. And who is this mob anyway? You say the dumbest things sometimes. Of course, it's how lazy people argue - mischaracterize the opinions of others, label them as extreme or mob-think to dismiss them offhand - and you're lazy.

What you do is blatantly obvious, you argue with me, not my positions. You're saying fire Staten and demote Barnett, you're also saying to fire Matt Mueller, our on campus recruiting director, the guy who sets up the visits and the itineraries, which may be one of the strangest things I've read. Maybe you meant to say Curtis Blackwell who is much more involved in recruiting. If you're looking at the recruiters at MSU, think of Blackwell as a VP and Mueller as his secretary. I consider firing coaches (and a secretary) in a down year due to poor line play as a mob mentality, wanting someone's head on a platter because this team has lost 3 straight (coming off a big ten title).

 

[Michchamp]

yeah, that's what everyone is saying - burn it down and rebuild it. And who is this mob anyway? You say the dumbest things sometimes. Of course, it's how lazy people argue - mischaracterize the opinions of others, label them as extreme or mob-think to dismiss them offhand - and you're lazy.

are you advocating they should be fired NOW, as in mid-season, or at the end of the season, following a calm, reasoned evaluation of the team's performance each week, or at least the part of the team they control?

I personally don't think a coach should ever be fired mid-season strictly on the basis of performance. I was even okay with our AD letting RichRod finish his season and coach in the Gator Bowl.

It seems short-sided to fire a coach mid-season just to get a jump on recruiting; you're basically guaranteeing a lot of departures and transfers, and a more difficult transition for the new coach. not to mention scaring off any decent coaches who expect to be treated fairly, man-to-man.

 

[gotime909]

are you advocating they should be fired NOW, as in mid-season, or at the end of the season, following a calm, reasoned evaluation of the team's performance each week, or at least the part of the team they control?

I personally don't think a coach should ever be fired mid-season strictly on the basis of performance. I was even okay with our AD letting RichRod finish his season and coach in the Gator Bowl.

It seems short-sided to fire a coach mid-season just to get a jump on recruiting; you're basically guaranteeing a lot of departures and transfers, and a more difficult transition for the new coach. not to mention scaring off any decent coaches who expect to be treated fairly, man-to-man.

fuck off

 

[Spartanmack]

What you do is blatantly obvious, you argue with me, not my positions. You're saying fire Staten and demote Barnett, you're also saying to fire Matt Mueller, our on campus recruiting director, the guy who sets up the visits and the itineraries, which may be one of the strangest things I've read. Maybe you meant to say Curtis Blackwell who is much more involved in recruiting. If you're looking at the recruiters at MSU, think of Blackwell as a VP and Mueller as his secretary. I consider firing coaches (and a secretary) in a down year due to poor line play as a mob mentality, wanting someone's head on a platter because this team has lost 3 straight (coming off a big ten title).

I'm not arguing with you or your positions - you're the one losing his shit over legitimate criticisms and carrying this on and on and on. As for Mueller, that was an error, I meant to say Staten - re-read it and you'll notice I even said I don't care if he doesn't recruit, talking about Staten. I do think Staten has to go - he's awful. Our line has been a consistent weakness - that's not an overreaction to one down year - it's something I've been critical of for many years now. I don't know enough about Mueller to say one way or the other, but I will say, we haven't been able to recruit top talent on the o-line.

I think Warner and Bollman should both go - I said at the time Bollman shouldn't have been hired and I've said he sucks ever since then. He and Warner are boring, predictable and ineffective. They need to be replaced. It's not just because of a down year - that's also not mob mentality, I didn't want Bollman hired and I've wanted to get rid of him and Warner for years.

As for Barnett, yes I don't think he's a good coordinator - the defense has been in steady decline since 2013. I also know Narduzzi was DC in '14, but Barnett was the next most senior person on that staff and we were weakest at his position and the defense has only gotten worse as we've recruited better talent than ever there. I like Barnett and he once had a great backfield so I'd give him a chance as a position coach again. That's also not an overreaction to one down year - it's a desire to stop a trend in the wrong direction.

 

[Spartanmack]

are you advocating they should be fired NOW, as in mid-season, or at the end of the season, following a calm, reasoned evaluation of the team's performance each week, or at least the part of the team they control?

I personally don't think a coach should ever be fired mid-season strictly on the basis of performance. I was even okay with our AD letting RichRod finish his season and coach in the Gator Bowl.

It seems short-sided to fire a coach mid-season just to get a jump on recruiting; you're basically guaranteeing a lot of departures and transfers, and a more difficult transition for the new coach. not to mention scaring off any decent coaches who expect to be treated fairly, man-to-man.

I think mid-year firings are stupid. It sends the wrong message and you're not going to find the replacement during the year if you're going after another active coach. It would be especially foolish to fire the co-OCs when Dantonio's background is defense. It's not likely to get better but midseason firings most likely only make it worse.

 

[Michchamp]

fuck off

Why did you delete the other part, angry little man?

 

[gotime909]

Why did you delete the other part, angry little man?

Because I didn't want to speak for spartanmack.

 

[Sbee]

I'm not arguing with you or your positions - you're the one losing his shit over legitimate criticisms and carrying this on and on and on. As for Mueller, that was an error, I meant to say Staten - re-read it and you'll notice I even said I don't care if he doesn't recruit, talking about Staten. I do think Staten has to go - he's awful. Our line has been a consistent weakness - that's not an overreaction to one down year - it's something I've been critical of for many years now. I don't know enough about Mueller to say one way or the other, but I will say, we haven't been able to recruit top talent on the o-line.

I think Warner and Bollman should both go - I said at the time Bollman shouldn't have been hired and I've said he sucks ever since then. He and Warner are boring, predictable and ineffective. They need to be replaced. It's not just because of a down year - that's also not mob mentality, I didn't want Bollman hired and I've wanted to get rid of him and Warner for years.

As for Barnett, yes I don't think he's a good coordinator - the defense has been in steady decline since 2013. I also know Narduzzi was DC in '14, but Barnett was the next most senior person on that staff and we were weakest at his position and the defense has only gotten worse as we've recruited better talent than ever there. I like Barnett and he once had a great backfield so I'd give him a chance as a position coach again. That's also not an overreaction to one down year - it's a desire to stop a trend in the wrong direction.

As for Staten, we did lose 2 first team all american linemen and another who was drafted. You're likely to struggle after those guys leave, of course you do know when people graduate and Conklin leaving was hardly a surprise but losing your potential starting LT that you were grooming can kill you as well. Finley came in for Conklin when he was hurt against CMU last year, looked like a deer in headlights again, then came back against Purdue and was grading out well for the first half, then suffered a horrific leg break. He was supposedly healthy and playing, at least according to reports, this fall, but he hasn't appeared in a game and it looked like he was favoring that leg in warm ups and in practice. Losing your heir apparent can be a big set back. We end up starting David Beadle at LT, a guy that couldn't crack an 8 person OL rotation last year and now he's a guy we're supposed to count on. As for recruiting OL, it's the toughest position to project since OL almost never play as true freshmen unless there's an injury. Most of these kids have big frames but their bodies need to be completely reshaped from being a chubby kid to a grown man's body. Also, you don't have the opportunity to evaluate them like you do other positions, at a camp you might have guys battle one on one but unfortunately that's not how football is played. They don't run plays against each other with a full compliment of other linemen around them. You say OL has been a weakness, I completely disagree, look at the rushing totals we've had over the years, how many 100 yard games did Langford have? Bell before him? we run the ball well and seemed to get better as games went on. Connor Cook rarely got sacked, a part of that is him making good decisions, throwing the ball away when appropriate, also having receivers who could get open helps.

Our boring, predictable offense has worked very well over the last few years when the QB has had time to throw, the OL opened holes for RB's, and receivers made plays and didn't have so many drops. This year is a snowball effect, OL can't pick up first downs, so the D is on the field more, so they get tired, then they can't stop anyone late in games. No pass rush, therefore DB's look bad but it's only partially their fault. We have no strength as team, there is no position group that deserves more than a C- grade. I would say linebackers were the strength of this team but when you play 6 guys and the best two get hurt, you're going to struggle. Guys like Shane Jones and Andrew Dowell are good backups who should get 30% of the snaps to keep the starters fresh. It's just a perfect storm, replacing one coach or many coaches wouldn't solve the personnel problems we have now.

 

[Spartanmack]

As for Staten, the line has never been that good - one of the All Americans went undrafted by the way and Clark went in the 7th round and is out for the season with a torn ACL very possibly a career ending injury for a marginal lineman. And you're only likely to struggle after losing experienced players if you're not developing and recruiting quality replacements. You're making excuses again - and acting like this is the only year the o-line has been a problem. It's not, it's just a bigger problem because the rest of the offense isn't good enough to cover for them.

And our boring predictable offense worked OK over the last few years but it didn't work so well when we really needed it too. We can't count on playing OSU in a hurricane every year. We couldn't contend for national championships with it, unless you think scoring ZERO points in the playoff is "contending" and we can't expect to regularly contend for B1G titles with it either now that uofm doesn't suck and we're in a loaded division.

Some of our problems are bigger than this year, they're not new, they're just glaringly obvious now that none of the position groups are picking up the slack and covering for them. Bollman and Warner suck - they need to go. Period. Staten sucks too, he needs to go. Barnett is looking like he's in over his head as a coordinator. I'm fine giving him another shot as a position coach or bringing in a "co" coordinator (wink, wink) so he can have the title and save face by technically not being demoted - however dantonio wants to handle it.

When you go from the CFB playoff to a C- as the best grade for any position group, that tells you something and it's more than just an injury bug.

 

[Spartan23MSU]

As for Staten, the line has never been that good - one of the All Americans went undrafted by the way and Clark went in the 7th round and is out for the season with a torn ACL very possibly a career ending injury for a marginal lineman. And you're only likely to struggle after losing experienced players if you're not developing and recruiting quality replacements. You're making excuses again - and acting like this is the only year the o-line has been a problem. It's not, it's just a bigger problem because the rest of the offense isn't good enough to cover for them.

And our boring predictable offense worked OK over the last few years but it didn't work so well when we really needed it too. We can't count on playing OSU in a hurricane every year. We couldn't contend for national championships with it, unless you think scoring ZERO points in the playoff is "contending" and we can't expect to regularly contend for B1G titles with it either now that uofm doesn't suck and we're in a loaded division.

Some of our problems are bigger than this year, they're not new, they're just glaringly obvious now that none of the position groups are picking up the slack and covering for them. Bollman and Warner suck - they need to go. Period. Staten sucks too, he needs to go. Barnett is looking like he's in over his head as a coordinator. I'm fine giving him another shot as a position coach or bringing in a "co" coordinator (wink, wink) so he can have the title and save face by technically not being demoted - however dantonio wants to handle it.

When you go from the CFB playoff to a C- as the best grade for any position group, that tells you something and it's more than just an injury bug.

Hard to disagree with any of this.