New England Vs. Seattle Super Bowl Game thread

[kdp1980]

If you are the coach, OC, or quarterback, you want to run a play against the weakest link in the defense. Without hesitation every single person would identify Butler as that weakest link.

Nah. Marshawn Lynch all the way. Lynch is the strength of that offense, gotta run him there. Pass plays at the 1 yard line are silly no matter who's in your backfield. Would you want Stafford throwing at the 1, or just let Bell stuff it in? A back like Lynch in the backfield makes it a no brainer. Seattle tried to get cute, and paid for it.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

If you are the coach, OC, or quarterback, you want to run a play against the weakest link in the defense. Without hesitation every single person would identify Butler as that weakest link. It was incredible that he made that play, one that even Revis would have difficulty making. Vast majority of the time the DB is thrilled just to breakup that pass, to have intercepted it...unreal.

100% wrong. You play to the strength of your offense......not the weakness of their D in that situation.

It was an abomination of a call in the most critical point of the season......and maybe of his life.......and he choked. Flat out choked.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

I agree worst call ever. But just for fun lets say you run and get stuffed. That forces you to use your final timeout and youre looking at 3rd and goal with about :28 sec left and no timeouts. So now youre almost forced to throw twice and new england knows it. An incomplete pass on 2nd down makes it 3rd and goal with a stopped clock and every play in your playbook avail to you. If you were ever going to pass the ball in that set of downs 2nd down was probably the right time to do it.

That being said he should have ran it 3 times. ..what a fucking idiot lol.

I truly think he wanted wilson to be the hero and not the thug marshawn.

I agree. He'll NEVER admit it, but I think he was trying to get Wilson the MVP (meaningless) and let the ENTIRE team down. Idiotic.

As far as the clock situation.......I would have called two plays in the huddle, both running plays.......and if you get stopped on 2nd down......you line up again and run it again on 3rd down. If THAT 3rd down play was stuffed......it'd give you about 5 seconds left on the clock......plenty of time for your timeout and a 4th down play. You can easily get two plays off at that part of the field because of the short amount of time it would take people to get back into position.

Point is, there are SO MANY scanarios that make more sense in that situation.......and they picked the highest risk option......and it bit them in the ass!

 

[zyxt9]

Nah. Marshawn Lynch all the way. Lynch is the strength of that offense, gotta run him there. Pass plays at the 1 yard line are silly no matter who's in your backfield. Would you want Stafford throwing at the 1, or just let Bell stuff it in? A back like Lynch in the backfield makes it a no brainer. Seattle tried to get cute, and paid for it.

So you have CJ 1v1 at the 1 yard line and you give the ball to Bell? I don't believe that for a second. However, if that 1v1 is against Revis or PP, then I would consider giving it to Bell.

Too many variables. You don't run with as much success when the D has their heavy package in.

Stop making it sound like it is a guarantee that Lynch will score. There is no such thing, just like CJ doesn't win every jump ball. It is about playing percentages and attacking the weak points. Why would you go strength vs strength? Just because you want to prove something? Smart coaches create matchups that give them the best chances. Running into a defensive front of 8 in the box all of whom are keying run has a lower chance for success, I don't care who the RB is, it just isn't the smart play. As a coach you woukd want your QB to check out of that run play and go with a pass play. Teams do that all the time, they practice it all the time. In this specific situation, the coaches called the pass play. Now if NE had a pass D on the field, checking to a run makes sense because the D is keying pass and don't have the alignments in place to have as much success to stop the run. That is why so many teams have used four wide and give it to their RB when the D shows more vulnerability to the run.

Running Lynch on that play goes against just about every tactical assessment possible. Weakest point in the D was Butler. No team or military wins every single tactical situation even when going after the weakest point, but it maximizes the potential. If you do not go after that weak spot you reduce your odds for success.

Not understanding why people don't get that. Even if the play had been called as a run for Lynch, in that D alignment the coach would want to have his QB check out of the called run and throw to the WR being covered by the undrafted backup rookie. Every coach in college and pros gets that which is what even Peyton or Brady would have done. Why did Brady throw so many passes away from Sherman? Everyone saying Lynch should have run the ball against that D alignment are fools. Why not just have Wilson throw toward Revis or Brady toward Sherman the entire game? You wouldn't do that because it reduces your chance for success, right?

Butler just made an incredible play, give him props. Sometimes the D makes a spectacular play...that's their job, right? Too many video game junkies analyzing this. Real world is different. Defenders make big plays too in the real world.

 

[zyxt9]

I agree. He'll NEVER admit it, but I think he was trying to get Wilson the MVP (meaningless) and let the ENTIRE team down. Idiotic.

As far as the clock situation.......I would have called two plays in the huddle, both running plays.......and if you get stopped on 2nd down......you line up again and run it again on 3rd down. If THAT 3rd down play was stuffed......it'd give you about 5 seconds left on the clock......plenty of time for your timeout and a 4th down play. You can easily get two plays off at that part of the field because of the short amount of time it would take people to get back into position.

Point is, there are SO MANY scanarios that make more sense in that situation.......and they picked the highest risk option......and it bit them in the ass!

More pointless video game analysis. You think those guys on defense are going to get off that pile so you can quickly run another run play without using your timeout?

You guys act like the D has zero influence on what happens.

 

[zyxt9]

100% wrong. You play to the strength of your offense......not the weakness of their D in that situation.

It was an abomination of a call in the most critical point of the season......and maybe of his life.......and he choked. Flat out choked.

Another video game junkie who just throws jump balls to CJ because he will always come down with it.

You run plays that maximize your potential to attain victory. Period. It is a guessing game at best, but stop acting like the soft spot in that D alignment was anything other than an undrafted backup rookie with 0 INTs prior to that point. Peyton Manning would have been salivating like Warren Sapp in a room filled with ribs and hookers if he saw Butler in that alignment.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

More pointless video game analysis. You think those guys on defense are going to get off that pile so you can quickly run another run play without using your timeout?

You guys act like the D has zero influence on what happens.

You act like because they expect a run its a certainty its going to be stopped. Its not.

A play takes about 4 seconds. Seattle snaps the ball at :32 (there would be less motion in a running play)......that leaves about :28 seconds left to get the ball spotted and people lined up......probably :13 - :10 seconds left when you snap the 3rd down play. Instant timeout if its stopped again.

PLENTY of time to do that.

Video game analysis? Really? You're funny. Did you call that fantastic play? That's the only reason I can fathom trying to defend it.

 

[tinselwolverine]

The play call was idiotic because the result was a catastrophe.

If they had run Lynch into a stack box and the play got stuffed and they ran out of time; that play call also would have been idiotic.

Now if the pass attempt had been completed for a game winning touchdown, then the call would have been brilliant.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

FROM ESPN STATS

Why the Seahawks should have run
In the past five seasons, including the playoffs entering last night, teams on the opponent’s 1-yard line ran the ball on 71 percent of all plays. On those plays, teams scored a touchdown 54 percent of the time while turning the ball over 1.5 percent of the time.

When passing from the 1, teams scored a touchdown just under 50 percent of the time while turning the ball over at a slightly higher rate.

The Patriots allowed five touchdowns on six rushes from their 1-yard line this season, including the playoffs (83 percent). Only the Philadelphia Eagles and Washington Redskins (both 100 percent) allowed touchdowns on a higher percentage of rushing plays from the 1-yard line.

If Seattle ran on second down, called a timeout and ran on third down, based on the league average touchdown percentage, two rushes would have resulted in a touchdown 79 percent of the time.

Every single statistic and number says run it. Also, those are league wide numbers by teams who also DON'T have "Skittles" taking the hand off. I don't think it's a reach to say that having him running the ball makes that 79% a bit higher.

You're just basing your opinion on a belief......which is fine.....but the hard FACTS say run the ball. There's your video game statistic, little guy!!!

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Another video game junkie who just throws jump balls to CJ because he will always come down with it.

You run plays that maximize your potential to attain victory. Period. It is a guessing game at best, but stop acting like the soft spot in that D alignment was anything other than an undrafted backup rookie with 0 INTs prior to that point. Peyton Manning would have been salivating like Warren Sapp in a room filled with ribs and hookers if he saw Butler in that alignment.

Terrible argument. You know why?

Ricardo Lockette. Let me say that again. Ricardo Lockette.

2014 stat line. 11 catches for 195 yards and 2 scores.

THATS who you choose to go to??? I doubt Peyton Manning would have been salivating thinking about throwing short slants to Ricardo Lockette in the Super Bowl with the game on the line!!!

That's like the Lions lining up Ross or Fuller. I don't care who the DB is.......my confidence going to either of those guys is ZERO!

 

[zyxt9]

In fact I'm going to piss off a bunch of people here, but if you had the time to assess all the different plays from that formation against that D alignment, the percentages would favor running that play due to the incredibly low chance of Butler making a play.

I cannot express enough how Butler bucked the odds. Good for him. The OC has nothing to be ashamed about. Percentage chance for the play being incomplete or a TD were incredibly high. A WR shield on a CB with Butler's background I would place at a 99% chance of either it being a TD or incomplete and a 0.9999% chance the WR catches the ball and gets stopped short of the goal line. Odds were heavily in favor of that play being more successful than Lynch running against that stacked D. It was in all honesty a brilliant playcall, it just so happens the DB made the play of his life and was at worst equal to the best DBs in football for that one play. Amazing what a human can overcome with the right effort, training, and support. For one moment, he overcame the greatest of odds...with the help of the Seahawks players not executing properly because with proper execution it had very high chance to be a TD. Butler just flat out wanted it more than Kearse, Lockette, and Wilson combined.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

In fact I'm going to piss off a bunch of people here, but if you had the time to assess all the different plays from that formation against that D alignment, the percentages would favor running that play due to the incredibly low chance of Butler making a play.

I cannot express enough how Butler bucked the odds. Good for him. The OC has nothing to be ashamed about. Percentage chance for the play being incomplete or a TD were incredibly high. A WR shield on a CB with Butler's background I would place at a 99% chance of either it being a TD or incomplete and a 0.9999% chance the WR catches the ball and gets stopped short of the goal line. Odds were heavily in favor of that play being more successful than Lynch running against that stacked D. It was in all honesty a brilliant playcall, it just so happens the DB made the play of his life and was at worst equal to the best DBs in football for that one play. Amazing what a human can overcome with the right effort, training, and support. For one moment, he overcame the greatest of odds...with the help of the Seahawks players not executing properly because with proper execution it had very high chance to be a TD. Butler just flat out wanted it more than Kearse, Lockette, and Wilson combined.

Brilliant play call???

You aren't pissing anyone off.....just making us laugh!!!

 

[zyxt9]

FROM ESPN STATS

Why the Seahawks should have run
In the past five seasons, including the playoffs entering last night, teams on the opponent?s 1-yard line ran the ball on 71 percent of all plays. On those plays, teams scored a touchdown 54 percent of the time while turning the ball over 1.5 percent of the time.

When passing from the 1, teams scored a touchdown just under 50 percent of the time while turning the ball over at a slightly higher rate.

The Patriots allowed five touchdowns on six rushes from their 1-yard line this season, including the playoffs (83 percent). Only the Philadelphia Eagles and Washington Redskins (both 100 percent) allowed touchdowns on a higher percentage of rushing plays from the 1-yard line.

If Seattle ran on second down, called a timeout and ran on third down, based on the league average touchdown percentage, two rushes would have resulted in a touchdown 79 percent of the time.

Every single statistic and number says run it. Also, those are league wide numbers by teams who also DON'T have "Skittles" taking the hand off. I don't think it's a reach to say that having him running the ball makes that 79% a bit higher.

You're just basing your opinion on a belief......which is fine.....but the hard FACTS say run the ball. There's your video game statistic, little guy!!!

You are such a tool.

Give me the stats of probability that a small school undrafted backup makes that play. It was his moment and he seized it, but stop acting like he wasn't the weak spot in that alignment. You cannot argue that fact. Look at his career stats for evidence that if any QB worth a damn saw that alignment they wouldn't have hesitated.

Your stats do not account for the individuals on the field at that time. You are being a sheep in assuming the best odds were to run Lynch.

And you continually ignore the fact that the guys on D have a job to do to. It is impossible to know Lynch would have scored.

Let's put thus another way. What would have been the odds put on Lynch scoring by Vegas. Now, what would have been their odds that Butler makes the play that he did.

Sure, Lynch would have high odds for scoring a TD, but those odds would not overcome the odds of Butler making that play. Smart money woukd bet that Butler doesn't make that INT. Far less chance he gets that INT than Lynch scoring.

It wasn't a bad call, it was just an incredible play by a guy on defense, who is out there doing his job...he just executed perfectly when the opposing guys did not.

 

[zyxt9]

FROM ESPN STATS

Why the Seahawks should have run
In the past five seasons, including the playoffs entering last night, teams on the opponent?s 1-yard line ran the ball on 71 percent of all plays. On those plays, teams scored a touchdown 54 percent of the time while turning the ball over 1.5 percent of the time.

When passing from the 1, teams scored a touchdown just under 50 percent of the time while turning the ball over at a slightly higher rate.

The Patriots allowed five touchdowns on six rushes from their 1-yard line this season, including the playoffs (83 percent). Only the Philadelphia Eagles and Washington Redskins (both 100 percent) allowed touchdowns on a higher percentage of rushing plays from the 1-yard line.

If Seattle ran on second down, called a timeout and ran on third down, based on the league average touchdown percentage, two rushes would have resulted in a touchdown 79 percent of the time.

Every single statistic and number says run it. Also, those are league wide numbers by teams who also DON'T have "Skittles" taking the hand off. I don't think it's a reach to say that having him running the ball makes that 79% a bit higher.

You're just basing your opinion on a belief......which is fine.....but the hard FACTS say run the ball. There's your video game statistic, little guy!!!

And going into that play the league stats would show there to be a zero percent chance of Butler making that INT. Your point is moot because the odds were more favorable that the called play would not have a negative impact, far less chance that Lynch scores compared to that.

 

[zyxt9]

The play call was idiotic because the result was a catastrophe.

If they had run Lynch into a stack box and the play got stuffed and they ran out of time; that play call also would have been idiotic.

Now if the pass attempt had been completed for a game winning touchdown, then the call would have been brilliant.

The result was catstrophic because of Butler making a once in a lifetime play coupled with Seattles poor execution of the play call.

But I understand and agree with the point you are making, the hindsight analysis is accurate...which is often the case.

 

[UMRules06]

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. Did I agree with the call? No I did not. I would have run my best player right at New England's suspect run defense and tried to get a TD that way on second down. Even if NE "knows" it's coming, it still comes down to execution and who wants it more.

If Lynch gets stuffed on second down, then you can try Wilson on a roll out run/pass option. He can easily throw the ball away if it's not there, setting up 4th down where you can do anything you want. Including running Lynch again.

Having said all that, I get the other side's point of view. I've seen plays like that work all the time as well, and it could have caught the defense off guard. I don't think it was the right call at all, but it's still not the "worst call ever!!!!" like people are saying.

 

[zyxt9]

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. Did I agree with the call? No I did not. I would have run my best player right at New England's suspect run defense and tried to get a TD that way on second down. Even if NE "knows" it's coming, it still comes down to execution and who wants it more.

If Lynch gets stuffed on second down, then you can try Wilson on a roll out run/pass option. He can easily throw the ball away if it's not there, setting up 4th down where you can do anything you want. Including running Lynch again.

Having said all that, I get the other side's point of view. I've seen plays like that work all the time as well, and it could have caught the defense off guard. I don't think it was the right call at all, but it's still not the "worst call ever!!!!" like people are saying.

On this I am in 100% agreement, that is how I would have called the plays too. My hindsight analysis has solely been to counter the "worst call ever" mantra, because pre-snap it actually was a great option so it should not be ridiculed to such extent. I get the preference to give Lynch the ball as a gut feeling, that isn't to say all other options are terrible.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I was rooting for the Pats because of Michigan Man Tom Brady...but ya gotta admit
@ :45 might be end up being the sports pic of the year...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKOLqM-LnA0

 

[mhughes0021]

I was rooting for the Pats because of Michigan Man Tom Brady...but ya gotta admit
@ :45 might be end up being the sports pic of the year...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKOLqM-LnA0

video wont play for me but id have to argue the Sherman cry face is the sports pic of the year lmao.

 

[mhughes0021]

On this I am in 100% agreement, that is how I would have called the plays too. My hindsight analysis has solely been to counter the "worst call ever" mantra, because pre-snap it actually was a great option so it should not be ridiculed to such extent. I get the preference to give Lynch the ball as a gut feeling, that isn't to say all other options are terrible.

coming off a stopped clock I would have called 2 running plays in the huddle. Then use my time out. Then if by some miracle the best back in football hasn't scored already I would have ran it again. Mayhew has proven trying to be the smartest man in the room typical makes you stupid. Do what you do...no way in hell I trust kearse Baldwin to make a game winning play let alone whoever the fuck he threw the ball to.

Little side note...that huge 6'5'' guy was the MVP of the game....then bellicheck put browner on him and shut him completely down the entire rest of the game. I think we know who the smartest man in the room is....