Pete Rose should never be a HoFer

[Rebbiv]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-rose-bet--cincinnati-reds---player/29115479/

If Shoeless Joe cannot get in for lesser offense, then Rose shouldn't either.

 

[tomdalton22]

I don't care if he bet on every game he played in...I still think he should be in the HOF

 

[dubbsco]

Did his betting on the game influence the outcome?

Nope.

He's an HOF player. Time to get these 90000 year old voters out of the system.

 

[Thumb]

Did his betting on the game influence the outcome?

Nope.

He's an HOF player. Time to get these 90000 year old voters out of the system.

How do you know this?

He bet on games he was actively playing in, that is no less an infraction than point shaving in a basketball game.

He broke rules put in place to prevent organized crime and other sources from affecting the outcomes of games. He don't get a mulligan just because he was a great hitter.

For the record, I don't think any of the Blacksox or Shoeless Joe deserve to be in either, he took the money.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Great player, bad person. Betting on games of your own team is what not to do 101. Even if you bet they'd win. I don't understand how this new tidbit was a court order to beginner and why isn't it now.

Just like Steroids, he was cheating the game.

Edit: As far as Shoeless, it knew of it and said nothing. I believe that's why he got canned..I don't think he actually took any money. But I could be wrong.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Though I just saw this from a proposed transcript: The answers are Jackson's.

Q: Did anybody pay you any money to help throw that series in favor of Cincinnati?

A: They did.

Q: How much did they pay?

A: They promised me $20,000, and paid me $5,000.

Q: Who promised you the twenty thousand?

A: “Chick Gandil.

Q: Who is Chick Gandil?

A. He was their first baseman on the White Sox Club.

Q: Who paid you the $5,000?

A: Left Williams brought it in my room and threw it down.

Q: Who is Lefty Williams?

A: The pitcher on the White Sox Club.

Q: Where did he bring it, where is your room?

A: At that time I was staying at the Lexington Hotel, I believe it is.

Q. On 21st and Michigan?

A. 22nd and Michigan, yes.

Q: Who was in this room at the time?

A: Lefty and myself, I was in there, and he came in.

Q: Where was Mrs. Jackson?

A: Mrs. Jackson–let me see–I think she was in the bathroom. It was [a]suite; yes, she was in the bathroom, I am pretty sure.

Q: Does she know that you got $5,000 for helping throw these games?

A: She did that night, yes.

The whole transcript is here, surprised I haven't seen it before..

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/blacksox/shoelessjoe.pdf

 

[Rebbiv]

Did his betting on the game influence the outcome?

Nope.

He's an HOF player. Time to get these 90000 year old voters out of the system.

Criteria


Voting baseball writers are instructed to judge each candidate on ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contribution to the team or teams on which he played -- as well as to baseball in general.

 

[tomdalton22]

Criteria


Voting baseball writers are instructed to judge each candidate on ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contribution to the team or teams on which he played -- as well as to baseball in general.

well...with that criteria the HOF definitely shouldn't be as full as it is now!

 

[Rebbiv]

well...with that criteria the HOF definitely shouldn't be as full as it is now!

That has always been the criteria.

 

[sggatecl]

That has always been the criteria.

It's too bad they haven't always followed it.

 

[Rebbiv]

It's too bad they haven't always followed it.

Just like a few other awards (i.e. Heisman).

Heisman = The outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity. Winners epitomize great ability combined with diligence, perseverance, and hard work.

Hence why Reggie Bush returned his Heisman.

Bottom line...in most sports awards, the word integrity appears. Judging someone's integrity can certainly be subjective for most. But when they commit overt offenses it tends to be a no brainer.

 

[tomdalton22]

That has always been the criteria.

I know the criteria hasn't changed...I was just saying that there are a LOT of people in the HOF that don't meet that criteria.

 

[Thumb]

I know the criteria hasn't changed...I was just saying that there are a LOT of people in the HOF that don't meet that criteria.

such as?

 

[tomdalton22]

such as?

we can start with the most famous Tiger of all time...Ty Cobb

 

[sggatecl]

we can start with the most famous Tiger of all time...Ty Cobb

Ty Cobb topped my list. Other honorable mentions were Don Sutton, Gaylord Perry, John McGraw, Whitey Ford...I won't even touch PED users such as Mantle, Williams, Mays, and a large list of others.

To say Rose violated the integrity of the game by betting FOR his team, not against it, more than these other guys is straight up bullshit.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Ty Cobb topped my list. Other honorable mentions were Don Sutton, Gaylord Perry, John McGraw, Whitey Ford...I won't even touch PED users such as Mantle, Williams, Mays, and a large list of others.

To say Rose violated the integrity of the game by betting FOR his team, not against it, more than these other guys is straight up bullshit.

I expect it's because time has changed. If Rose played in the 50's he'd be a hall of fame player. All about the media and places like ESPN.

 

[kalinecountry]

Ty Cobb topped my list. Other honorable mentions were Don Sutton, Gaylord Perry, John McGraw, Whitey Ford...I won't even touch PED users such as Mantle, Williams, Mays, and a large list of others.

To say Rose violated the integrity of the game by betting FOR his team, not against it, more than these other guys is straight up bullshit.

sggatecl, Would you explain about Whitey Ford.
and Mantle, Mays, and Ted Williams as ped users?

 

[tomdalton22]

sggatecl, Would you explain about Whitey Ford.
and Mantle, Mays, and Ted Williams as ped users?

There are a lot of people that think speed / greenies that were taken back in the day helped the performance of baseball players.

 

[Mitchrapp]

As said above, integrity is subjective. I don't have a huge problem with Rose betting on baseball (other teams) but you bet on your team and as mentioned above, is no different, imo, to shaving points in a basketball game.

I've been pro-Rose/anti-Rose through-out the past years. Now I'm against him. Mostly because he kept denying for years. Just come clean..and give a huge apology and maybe he's in already.

 

[Mitchrapp]

There are a lot of people that think speed / greenies that were taken back in the day helped the performance of baseball players.

True but is there proof against the aforementioned players?