Rice and Nicks

[lgolfer]

After watching Stafford's highlight video, he makes great throws as long as he sets his feet. For whatever reason, he's had happy feet in the pocket for much of the past 2 years. I'm optimistic that Lombardi and Caldwell can help improve his footwork and if they do, I think Stafford will be much improved.

 

[lgolfer]

That's fine but if his main job is to go deep we're wasting a pick. I'm not putting all my eggs into the "Caldwell, Lombardi - footwork" basket. Hell, CJ was a slot receiver a lot last year. You know why? Because our QB can't throw deep.

If we take a WR in the 1st or 2nd round, HIS MAIN JOB WON'T BE TO GO DEEP! But it will give us the option to go deep with someone other than CJ. And opposing teams will have to respect that.

CJ was a slot receiver a lot last year because he was double and triple covered if he went downfield because we had Durham as our #2 WR and because we were getting the ball out in 3 seconds or less most of the time. Also, Linehan wasn't a great playcaller.

 

[lucke]

Hell, CJ was a slot receiver a lot last year. You know why? Because our QB can't throw deep.

false... CJ has been moved all over the field the last few years to force changes in the defense, to try and get single coverage on a quick slant. this has nothing to do with Staff's in/ability to throw down field.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I hope you're right. But I've watched him since college and one thing is consistent, his accuracy blows. The one thing I can't get on board with is that somehow we have this magical coach that will fix his footwork..like I said I hope you're right.

 

[Mitchrapp]

false... CJ has been moved all over the field the last few years to force changes in the defense, to try and get single coverage on a quick slant. this has nothing to do with Staff's in/ability to throw down field.

What I meant as a WR who is a deep threat he doesn't catch a lot of balls deep. He had to adjust to what Staff is able to do.

 

[lgolfer]

What I meant as a WR who is a deep threat he doesn't catch a lot of balls deep. He had to adjust to what Staff is able to do.

When we had guys like Durham and Burleson, who can't beat their guy down the field, it allows the opponent to focus their coverage on Calvin and often add an extra man. This led to more short routes and less deep balls because it was the only way to get Calvin single coverage. If we get a solid #2 WR in the draft, he should have enough speed to give the Lions the option of throwing the deep ball to someone other than Calvin. This should either give us winnable matchups for our #2 WR or ease the coverage on Calvin, allowing him to be more of a deep ball threat.

 

[tomdalton22]

The Lions probably have the best Deep threat in the NFL. They need other WRs that can catch the ball short and intermediate. Good hands and good route runners is all they need.

 

[lgolfer]

The Lions probably have the best Deep threat in the NFL. They need other WRs that can catch the ball short and intermediate. Good hands and good route runners is all they need.

I agree. Calvin is arguably the best deep threat in the NFL. But if he's the only WR safeties have to worry about going deep, I think that severely limits deep ball opportunities for Calvin because he'll be double and triple teamed. I think there are plenty of WRs in the upcoming draft who have good hands, run good routes, AND have the speed to go deep.

Which is why I find this discussion stupid. With the depth at WR in this draft, the Lions don't have to choose between speed or hands in the 2nd round. There are guys who have both.

 

[tomdalton22]

I agree. Calvin is arguably the best deep threat in the NFL. But if he's the only WR safeties have to worry about going deep, I think that severely limits deep ball opportunities for Calvin because he'll be double and triple teamed. I think there are plenty of WRs in the upcoming draft who have good hands, run good routes, AND have the speed to go deep.

Which is why I find this discussion stupid. With the depth at WR in this draft, the Lions don't have to choose between speed or hands in the 2nd round. There are guys who have both.

I hear you. I think the Lions need WRs that can compliment CJ. If he gets double and triple teamed while going deep the Lions need WRs that can catch the ball underneath. That is how you make them pay on a consistant basis. You don't need another guy going deep if CJ is going deep as well.

 

[cheeno]

You attack a rolling safety with your #2 going deep.

 

[tomdalton22]

You attack a rolling safety with your #2 going deep.

These guys are talking about CJ being triple teamed when he goes deep. Any average QB and WRs should have a field day with 3 DBs on CJ with or without going deep.

 

[cheeno]

These guys are talking about CJ being triple teamed when he goes deep. Any average QB and WRs should have a field day with 3 DBs on CJ with or without going deep.

Yep someone isn't doing their job. I hope it is because we have a below average WRs. I think we need two out of this draft, not necessarily in round 1.

 

[tomdalton22]

Yep someone isn't doing their job. I hope it is because we have a below average WRs. I think we need two out of this draft, not necessarily in round 1.

I think it is probably a combination of things. I think it may have been scheme, below average 2 & 3 WRs and Stafford's ability to hit / find the open man. I think they need a WR in round 2 and another later and at least one free agent. I would not want to depend on 2 rookie WRs.

 

[LKP]

Yep someone isn't doing their job. I hope it is because we have a below average WRs. I think we need two out of this draft, not necessarily in round 1.

Durham can't beat single coverage and had too many drops when he did. Burleson and Broyles injuries got Durham many targets. Plus the fact we ignored WR in 2013 due to bigger fish to fry (Bush, Quin, Jones, Ansah, Slay, Warford). And Pettigrew's separation is what it is but he had a solid catch rate too.

Burleson had a good very good catch rate. Calvin's was lower than usual (drops with his finger issue and more forces due to the others not getting open).

Good healthy number 2 and 3 will help Stafford big time. Keep them healthy for 16 games and Calvin not missing any time eithe as opposed to 2 games and 2 others limited.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I feel like a broken drum but Staff cannot throw deep. It's not his thing..he can barely throw 10 yards and be accurate.

 

[LKP]

I feel like a broken drum but Staff cannot throw deep. It's not his thing..he can barely throw 10 yards and be accurate.

Stafford is just fine deep. He has a big arm. The problem is I never see anyone get much separation deep for him. Calvin has to win the jump balls due to coverage (he doesn't win them all and it's still a low percentage play despite us remembering all the great catches and forgeting the incompletes). Teams cover us to take away the deep ball.

Rodgers is winging it to wide open guys deep because he can pick you apart underneath and Jones and Nelson get separation or even Cobb (see wide open Bears game). Brady has worse numbers than Stafford deep (16% Brady, 30% Stafford over 40). Manning lulls you but then takes his shots and his guys get good separation with not all the focus on Thomas and Decker. Plus they had a TE who got go down the seam, Detroit lacks that. Manning only threw 1 pass over 40 yards last year. Stafford threw 10, 3/10.

 

[tomdalton22]

Stafford is just fine deep. He has a big arm. The problem is I never see anyone get much separation deep for him. Calvin has to win the jump balls due to coverage (he doesn't win them all and it's still a low percentage play despite us remembering all the great catches and forgeting the incompletes). Teams cover us to take away the deep ball.

Rodgers is winging it to wide open guys deep because he can pick you apart underneath and Jones and Nelson get separation or even Cobb (see wide open Bears game). Brady has worse numbers than Stafford deep (16% Brady, 30% Stafford over 40). Manning lulls you but then takes his shots and his guys get good separation with not all the focus on Thomas and Decker. Plus they had a TE who got go down the seam, Detroit lacks that. Manning only threw 1 pass over 40 yards last year. Stafford threw 10, 3/10.

He can throw the ball deep but he isn't accurate.

 

[LKP]

He can throw the ball deep but he isn't accurate.

He's more accurate than most QBs deep due to the big arm. A rocket with air that doesn't wobble. 30-40% is good deep. Some are designed jump balls to Calvin (and those are risky). Nobody else can run away from a DB on this team but Calvin and teams are so worried about Calvin, they play the safeties deep. Teams were scared of us throwing deep and that's how they defend us.

 

[tomdalton22]

He's more accurate than most QBs deep due to the big arm. A rocket with air that doesn't wobble. 30-40% is good deep. Some are designed jump balls to Calvin (and those are risky). Nobody else can run away from a DB on this team but Calvin and teams are so worried about Calvin, they play the safeties deep. Teams were scared of us throwing deep and that's how they defend us.

Just because it gets there fast doesn't mean it is on target.

 

[motown1958]

That's fine but if his main job is to go deep we're wasting a pick. I'm not putting all my eggs into the "Caldwell, Lombardi - footwork" basket. Hell, CJ was a slot receiver a lot last year. You know why? Because our QB can't throw deep.

Thats not why he ran out of the slot last year. A number 1 receiver can play any position. For some teams their number 1 might be a natural slot guy like when the Pats had Welker. You play Calvin in the slot to get him separation at the line. A defense can't jam the slot guy usually because he doesn't have the sideline as an extra defender. They do it so he can get open quickly and find room to move. It has nothing to do with Staffords accuracy.